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Bus Eireann N3/M3 Corridor Route & Timetable Changes - Phase 3

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Do you seriously think that having no bus connections at all at M3 Parkway is a good thing?

    I remember the integrated fares between the Kildare line and the 90 bus. Perhaps you don't? We might be forgiven for thinking that Bus reann and Irish Rail are wholly unconnected with each other in any way.

    I don't think that re-routing Dublin-Navan express buses to serve the station is a good idea as you seem to. It would lengthen journey times for the majority. Add in waiting times at the station and the bus/rail option becomes uncompetitive compared with the direct coach.

    The trains from M3 Parkway are already uncomfortably jammed as it is - where would all these additional passengers that you see using it fit? There won't be any additional rolling stock available for another 18 months at least.

    There hasn't been any signs of further development of integrated Bus Eireann / Iarnrod reann ticketing from the NTA and until that happens, and there is a significant increase in rail capacity on the line, this idea is in my view is a non-starter.

    Incidentally, they tried this with the 111 Trim service and no one used it - everyone stayed on the bus.

    I'm sorry for sounding unduly negative, as I'm normally very pro-integration, but just think this through from a practical perspective.

    Perhaps when the rail capacity issues are addressed then maybe a dedicated Navan - M3 shuttle bus could be tried, but again I wouldn't be diverting existing services and unnecessarily lengthening people's journeys.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    I don't think that re-routing Dublin-Navan express buses to serve the station is a good idea as you seem to. It would lengthen journey times for the majority. Add in waiting times at the station and the bus/rail option becomes uncompetitive compared with the direct coach.

    The trains from M3 Parkway are already uncomfortably jammed as it is - where would all these additional passengers that you see using it fit? There won't be any additional rolling stock available for another 18 months at least.

    There hasn't been any signs of further development of integrated Bus Eireann / Iarnrod reann ticketing from the NTA and until that happens, and there is a significant increase in rail capacity on the line, this idea is in my view is a non-starter.

    Incidentally, they tried this with the 111 Trim service and no one used it - everyone stayed on the bus.

    I'm sorry for sounding unduly negative, as I'm normally very pro-integration, but just think this through from a practical perspective.

    Perhaps when the rail capacity issues are addressed then maybe a dedicated Navan - M3 shuttle bus could be tried, but again I wouldn't be diverting existing services and unnecessarily lengthening people's journeys.

    I dont disagree with you. I'm not advocating that the NX be rerouted - just to have any/some connection between Navan and M3 Parkway. After all, the pre opening PR did say that would be the case, to counteract valid criticism of the toll before the station junction off the M3


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    I dont disagree with you. I'm not advocating that the NX be rerouted - just to have any/some connection between Navan and M3 Parkway. After all, the pre opening PR did say that would be the case, to counteract valid criticism of the toll before the station junction off the M3

    Until rail capacity issues are resolved I cannot see that happening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Until rail capacity issues are resolved I cannot see that happening.

    It can take traffic off the M3.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    It can take traffic off the M3.

    MMmmmmm....I seem to remember some very successful Golf Classics around about the Royal County over the years.....the local TD (and Minister) was apparently,quite handy with the swing too....:D

    Some of the larger SIMI Motor Dealers were reputed to take up offers of partaking in the charitable events too.........;) ;);)

    Less CAR Traffic on the M3........."Excellent idea Minister....However....etc etc etc....:P;):rolleyes:.....perhaps not "


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    It can take traffic off the M3.

    I don't think you understand.

    The peak hour trains are crammed on the Maynooth/M3 Parkway line already. There isn't room for adding bus loads of people from Navan onto them. They might get on at M3 Parkway in the mornings, but then other people at intermediate stations would not, and it would be impossible in the evenings.

    There is a bigger picture here - quite simply the railway line could not cope with those extra peak time passengers. Until the 2700 DMU stock returns, at least 18 months away, that will remain the case.

    As for taking traffic off the M3, it is hardly jammed with cars is it? I imagine more people would be open to using the station as a P & R facility rather than taking a bus to it.

    All these ideas are great in theory, but practically they aren't realistic given the current financial and capacity constraints.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    MMmmmmm....I seem to remember some very successful Golf Classics around about the Royal County over the years.....the local TD (and Minister) was apparently,quite handy with the swing too....:D

    Some of the larger SIMI Motor Dealers were reputed to take up offers of partaking in the charitable events too.........;) ;);)

    Less CAR Traffic on the M3........."Excellent idea Minister....However....etc etc etc....:P;):rolleyes:.....perhaps not "

    Yup, got it in one there Alek.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    chewed wrote: »
    Quick question. My son travels from Navan to Cavan every Sunday evening. Now he'll have to get a bus to Kells and then get another bus to Cavan. Can he get 1 ticket that will do him for both trips?

    There will still be connections between Navan and Cavan on the Dublin Cavan 109X service that will begin on 17th September.

    It will be possible to get the 109X bus, in Navan to Cavan on Sundays, as well as Monday to Saturday. On Sundays the 109X from Dublin to Cavan, is scheduled to pick up and drop off at The Mercy Convent in Navan at 10.12am, 12.19am, 2.19pm, 4.19pm, 8.12pm and 10.12pm.

    The 109X bus from Cavan to Dublin, on Sundays, will pick up and drop off at the bus stop opposite Navan Fire Station at 10.05am, 12.01pm, 2.01pm, 4.01pm, 6.01pm, 8.01pm and 10.05pm.

    From Monday to Friday, the 109X service from Cavan to Dublin will pick up and drop off at the bus stop opposite the Fire Station at 6.03am, 10.01am, 12.01pm, 2.01pm, 4.01pm, 6.01pm, 8.01pm, and 10.00pm.

    From Monday to Friday you will be able to get the 109X bus from Navan to Cavan at The Mercy Convent, where it will pick up and drop off at 8.19am, 10.19am, 12.19pm, 2.19pm, 4.19pm, 8.19pm and 10.12pm.

    On Saturdays you will be able to get a bus from Navan to Cavan at the Mercy Convent, where it will pick up and drop off at 8.12am, 10.12am, 12.19pm, 2.19pm, 4.19pm, 8.12pm and 10.12pm

    On Saturdays the bus from Cavan to Dublin will pick up and drop off at the bus stop opposite the Fire Station at 10.05am, 12.01pm, 2.01pm, 4.01pm, 6.01pm, 8.01pm and 10.05pm.

    http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435671-109X.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭tom23


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Well I'd imagine this is a conscious effort to encourage more people out of their cars and onto the bus service by the NTA.

    To be honest this is futile on behalf of the NTA. Public transport in Meath is not anywhere near that position to make people leave their car in favour of a service that at times is not reliable. Maybe for private operators they would take the option. Having used all options over the years I'd use my car first followed by a private operator.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    tom23 wrote: »
    To be honest this is futile on behalf of the NTA. Public transport in Meath is not anywhere near that position to make people leave their car in favour of a service that at times is not reliable. Maybe for private operators they would take the option. Having used all options over the years I'd use my car first followed by a private operator.

    One would imagine that they are hoping this will be more reliable?

    Not much point investing in new buses and drivers, and putting extra money in for a big expansion in services otherwise.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    tom23 wrote: »
    To be honest this is futile on behalf of the NTA. Public transport in Meath is not anywhere near that position to make people leave their car in favour of a service that at times is not reliable. Maybe for private operators they would take the option. Having used all options over the years I'd use my car first followed by a private operator.

    The advantage that the Bus Éireann services between Navan and Dublin have over Sillan Tours, the private operator that currently serves Navan to and from Dublin, is that with Bus Éireann, if you are required to be in Dublin later than 7.15pm, you can get back to Navan by bus, and there are more options for getting to and from Navan (and Kells and Cavan) and Dublin, throughout the day, with Bus Éireann, compared to the Sillan Tours timetable.

    Bus Éireann also currently runs more services on Saturdays and Sundays, to and from Navan and Dublin, compared to the Sillan Tours service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭tom23


    Have any commuters feedback on the new changes?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭gazzer


    I got the 109X at 2.15 from Busarus yesterday. Was a bit confusing because the big display on the wall showed the bus leaving at 2.30. Anyway the bus left a 2.30. However it took the usual route up the Navan Road. Maybe it was because of the crowds on Dorset St? It was great bot having to go through Navan. Took 90 minutes to get to Virginia. 20 minutes quicker than other Sundays that I have got the 109


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Seems to be a lot of issues today - buses cancelled on various routes.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the drivers were up to some skulduggery being honest - some form of "blue flu"....


  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭crank_1975


    It was, to put it mildly, a cl*sterf*ck. 06.45 109X arrived in Kells from Cavan and was full. Apparently the additional express from Virginia was cancelled and the next scheduled express by-passes Kells as per the timetable so was waiting an hour for a 109X. Can't wait to go home :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Reports on Twitter of multiple missed services on 109, 109A, 109X, 111, 115, 115A and 120 and issues with NX too.

    Far too many missing buses for this not to be more than a couple of drivers missing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭chewed


    The 19.25 109x from Kells to Cavan arrived at 19.55! Not a good start to their new service. Though it maybe due to the big match!


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭Cannon_fodder


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Reports on Twitter of multiple missed services on 109, 109A, 109X, 111, 115, 115A and 120 and issues with NX too.

    Far too many missing buses for this not to be more than a couple of drivers missing.

    All Ireland hangover? Not too many Dubs in here today


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Doubt it - most of those routes start in outer depots.

    Maybe new rosters are causing "issues".


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    The NavanExpress twitter account has been silent all day on the disruption to services.

    The NTA have tweeted several customers though saying: "Sorry services haven't met expectations 2day @Buseireann is responsible 4 operating these services, we will make them aware of issues raised"


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭sofireland


    The 723 from "Ardboyne Bridge" got to the stop at 735, and didn't leave until 745, didn't get to the M3 at garlow until after 8.
    Driver found out he was doing this route this morning, wasn't sure where to stop, and as such dropped at 2 seperate places in Phibsboro, and then was ok until Westland Row.

    On the way home this evening bus picked up at 540 at Westland Row which was the 530 from Wilton Tce. Went fine until Beresford place where half a dozen passengers waiting for Ashbourne tried to board, and was hailed down going through Glasnevin for Ashbourne bound passengers. Might be worth them changing the NX on the bus sign to Navan Direct, it just says Navan.

    Also at the stop this morning there was a superintendent, he should have been at the Ardboyne stop advising passengers of the change, and new stop located 200 yards away. Also from what i could see there was no notification at this stop of the new route.

    Also a passenger mentioned his son was a driver this afternoon, and these new routes haven't gone down well, and to expect trouble.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    chewed wrote: »
    The 19.25 109x from Kells to Cavan arrived at 19.55! Not a good start to their new service. Though it maybe due to the big match!

    Would it have been delayed getting between Glasnevin, Finglas and Blanchardstown?

    Or maybe it was delayed between Bus Aras and Dorset St, with crowds and traffic after the match?

    http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435671-109X.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    sofireland wrote: »
    The 723 from "Ardboyne Bridge" got to the stop at 735, and didn't leave until 745, didn't get to the M3 at garlow until after 8.
    Driver found out he was doing this route this morning, wasn't sure where to stop, and as such dropped at 2 seperate places in Phibsboro, and then was ok until Westland Row.

    On the way home this evening bus picked up at 540 at Westland Row which was the 530 from Wilton Tce. Went fine until Beresford place where half a dozen passengers waiting for Ashbourne tried to board, and was hailed down going through Glasnevin for Ashbourne bound passengers. Might be worth them changing the NX on the bus sign to Navan Direct, it just says Navan.

    Also at the stop this morning there was a superintendent, he should have been at the Ardboyne stop advising passengers of the change, and new stop located 200 yards away. Also from what i could see there was no notification at this stop of the new route.

    Also a passenger mentioned his son was a driver this afternoon, and these new routes haven't gone down well, and to expect trouble.

    In fairness, the Ashbourne passengers who tried to board the bus should have known, if they had read up on the changes to the services, that the services, to and from Dublin and the Ashbourne area, had not changed from 17th September 2017, and that the services that cover Ashbourne are the 105, 109A and 103.

    Why would they think an NX service, would cover Ashbourne as well, considering there were improvements and increases in frequencies to the 103 and 105 services, to and from Ashbourne and Dublin, and Ashbourne and Blanchardstown, as recently as April 2016.

    http://buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=2378&month=Sep
    http://buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1994&month=Apr
    http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1470225086-103.pdf
    http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1470226109-105.pdf
    http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1473263565-109A.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    In the meantime, while the reliability or otherwise of a bus-based solution to Navan's transport issues remains in question, the Meath Chronicle gives a good kicking to the strange disappearance of the M3 Parkway to Navan railway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭sofireland


    Three stops in Johnstown, is Overkill imo, One at the supervalu would be more than enough.
    The stop at Ma Dwyers, is so far off the road the driver doesn't see it till they're on top of it.
    It also shouldn't service the Slip road in Blanch, lost another 5 - 10 minutes this evening to it.
    The usual 109 can service that.

    Travel times in the city at peak time are totally unrealistic. The 1710 from Westland Row was arrived at just after 20 past this evening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    sofireland wrote: »
    Three stops in Johnstown, is Overkill imo, One at the supervalu would be more than enough.
    The stop at Ma Dwyers, is so far off the road the driver doesn't see it till they're on top of it.
    It also shouldn't service the Slip road in Blanch, lost another 5 - 10 minutes this evening to it.
    The usual 109 can service that.


    Travel times in the city at peak time are totally unrealistic. The 1710 from Westland Row was arrived at just after 20 past this evening.

    It is very hard for Bus Éireann to make changes that will receive the approval of all its customers.

    I'm sure the passengers who get the new NX bus at Blanchardstown, going to Navan, don't want to go through Clonee or Dunshaughlin, on the 109 between Kells and Dublin, any more than you do.:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    In the meantime, the Meath Chronicle tells it like it is.

    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/19/4146041-ryanairstyle-rosters-and-new-timetables-causing-chaos/

    Navan needs a railway service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    In the meantime, the Meath Chronicle tells it like it is.

    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/19/4146041-ryanairstyle-rosters-and-new-timetables-causing-chaos/

    Navan needs a railway service.

    Well what they need right now is for the new bus schedule to be delivered upon.

    If the schedules as designed were actually operated, this week would have seen a big improvement in services. Yet there has been chaos.

    I'm amazed that no one from BE management has been taken to task on this yet.

    In theory you could have rostering issues with railway staff too. This is an operational issue that needs sorting and fast.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    In theory you could have rostering issues with railway staff too. This is an operational issue that needs sorting and fast.

    If this happened on the railway all the Bus/NTA people here would be screaming blue murder.

    It is no small thing to have your working day totally disrupted, and it bodes badly for confidence in the new services. Expect a buttload of more cars driving to Dublin as a result.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    If this happened on the railway all the Bus/NTA people here would be screaming blue murder.

    It is no small thing to have your working day totally disrupted, and it bodes badly for confidence in the new services. Expect a buttload of more cars driving to Dublin as a result.

    I don't think anyone would consider this kind of performance by Bus Eireann or indeed any other operator be they bus or rail acceptable.

    I'm not sure who you mean by "bus/NTA people here"?


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