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International Men's Day 19th November
Comments
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Raconteuse wrote: »Really no need for that.
I am glad an effort is being made to highlight what men have to deal with and which sometimes gets forgotten about because men are expected to take it on the chin.
It was in response to this -El_Duderino 09 wrote: »Apologies. It winds me up when people oppose obviously good initiatives like IMD.
It was absolutely necessary IMO to point out that El_D has little to be getting worked up about if that’s what gets him worked up. I’m not opposed to obviously good initiatives at all. I just wouldn’t categorise IMD, nor any of these “international days” as an obviously good initiative.
Having to deal with idiots who accuse them of being threatened by feminism is something men have to endure too, but thankfully only one day a year :pac:0 -
Ironicname wrote: »I haven't seen one person do that.
Quote from 1800_ladladladIMO- I abhor the virtuous and social awareness aspect of it as you get people talking through their hole on the matter, people who wear their self-diagnosis like a badge of honor and people who simply do it for personal gain. There is a difference between being mentally ill and looking after your mental health which is done through CBT, mindfulness, and meditation etc as is done by a person who goes to the gym to look after their physical health. I know a lot of people who melodramatically conflate feelings of sadness and being mentally ill, its how they say it, how they are going about expressing how they feel and it's like people are reading from the same hymn book, they are: social medial
100%, Im all for people staying alive and looking after themselves when they are not in a good place. I'm not mad on the idea like men and women's day but if it saves 1 life. No way would I rebuke it
So this character is a neat example of what I'm talking about. They abhor the social awareness of it and call the people who stick their head above the parapet and speak about their experience of mental ill health "talking out of their hole" and "do it for personal gain"
The they go on to say they're all for IMD a after saying that about the people who actually talk about mental illness.
Take some Irish examples of men who talk about mental health both in terms of experience of mental illness and maintaining good mental health. Blindboy is one, Niall Bresin is another and I know from these threads that they get nothing but abuse from some of the same people who will say they support more men talking about mental health and illness. They support it in principle but only in principle. If someone actually does it then they are judged against some imaginary purity test.
Can the posters who say they support these people in principle but actually oppose them in practice, give many examples of the men in irish media who talk about mental illness and health that they actually support? I'd be surprised if they can.0 -
OK. Very clever. I see what you did. And you don't see IMD as a good initiative. Fair enough.One eyed Jack wrote: »It was absolutely necessary IMO to point out that El_D has little to be getting worked up about if that’s what gets him worked up. I’m not opposed to obviously good initiatives at all. I just wouldn’t categorise IMD, nor any of these “international days” as an obviously good initiative.
You know others see it as a good initiative so Why do you want to talk it down?0 -
Raconteuse wrote: »Really no need for that.
I am glad an effort is being made to highlight what men have to deal with and which sometimes gets forgotten about because men are expected to take it on the chin.
Some of these same posters will be back on other threads talking about what a disgrace it is that nothing is being done about x y and x. And when there's a guilt edged opportunity to talk about those things, they show they have absolutely no Interest.
They know the media is going to cover IMD and the initiatives on the day. So they can use that captive media to tell people en masse about those issues that they say concern them. But in practice they don't want to do anything and are happy to talk down IMD. By doing so they reduces the chances of spreading the I do on the topics that they say they care about.
I think IMD is a great opportunity to get that info out to people who don't have it. The people on boards who chat about this stuff regularly, know the issues. The average person doesn't talk about this stuff at all. So when they listen to the radio or watch the news on IMD they can get some new info.
How many people know boys are falling behind girls in education?
How many know about the stats on suicide?
How many know about the trouble good men experience trying to be a father to their children after their marriage breaks up?
These are some of the real life issues and I think IMD has potential to spread some really needed info. So you can talk it up or talk it down.0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »OK. Very clever. I see what you did. And you don't see IMD as a good initiative. Fair enough.
You know others see it as a good initiative so Why do you want to talk it down?
I’ll answer your question by addressing your next post, and perhaps you will understand why I don’t care for IMD the same way you appear to, and why I don’t agree with you that IMD is the good initiative you claim it is.El_Duderino 09 wrote: »Some of these same posters will be back on other threads talking about what a disgrace it is that nothing is being done about x y and x. And when there's a guilt edged opportunity to talk about those things, they show they have absolutely no Interest.
You’re mistaking people’s lack of interest in talking about things the way you want to talk about things, for a lack of interest in talking about things which they care about. Take a minute next time to really listen with the intent of wanting to offer help, and you’ll discover that while 90% of what they’re saying is still complete shìte talk, it’s the 10% you weren’t hearing before which you’re now hearing, is the real cause of their distress and discomfort. They’re not talking about how stressed out they are and how their mental health is suffering and all the rest of it, their concerns are for being able to meet the mortgage payments or employment uncertainty or being able to provide for their families. An opportunity to talk about the things you want to talk about is of fcukall use to anyone who isn’t you, frankly. Don’t get me wrong, I know your heart is in the right place and all, but it seems as though you want to sell IMD because it means something to you, and your frustration comes from the fact that other people aren’t interested in buying what you’re selling because they don’t see your amazing product the same way you do.El_Duderino 09 wrote: »They know the media is going to cover IMD and the initiatives on the day. So they can use that captive media to tell people en masse about those issues that they say concern them. But in practice they don't want to do anything and are happy to talk down IMD. By doing so they reduces the chances of spreading the I do on the topics that they say they care about.
The media covers what people talk about already. It also covers what you talk about already. It covers these topics according to how much people are talking about them. People are talking about plenty more than just mental health, because they have far more important immediate concerns than mental health or all the other issues you think people need their consciousness raised about. In practice, people are doing what they can to help themselves and the people they care about. Only a small number of people are interested in social justice advocacy in the same way as only a small number of people are interested in education, welfare, healthcare, etc. Most people in any given society, as I suggested earlier, have more immediate concerns like providing for their families, gaining and maintaining maintaining employment, y’know, concerns about the future of the economy as it pertains to them, are prioritised over concerns about the future of the environment and so on. Social justice advocacy? Well, not many people want to talk about it because it’s just not something they’re interested in. It’s something you’re interested in. I’ve always been more interested in being active in my community and trying to make people’s lives better in the long term as opposed to just giving them a platform in the media for one day of the year and then ignoring them for the rest of the year because I’ve moved on to the next cause that’s trending on social media. I tend to base my principles on the serenity prayer, and one doesn’t have to be religious to understand the sentiment, it can still be applied in a non-religious context -
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
Basically, raising people’s consciousness is one way of convincing yourself you’re doing something at least to address the issues you care about. But it isn’t actually doing anything to alleviate the suffering of the people who are experiencing those issues which you care about. Sharing and liking shìte on social media promotes said shìte, but it does nothing to address the underlying causes of those issues or alleviate the suffering caused to people as a consequence of the actual underlying cause of the issue. You’re effectively only treating the symptoms of the disease while trying to pass it off as a cure. Charlatans and snake-oil salespeople use similar strategies to sell their products, or their ideals. There’s always a few people are desperate enough to try anything which they are convinced will alleviate their suffering or offer them what they’re looking for. Those are the people for whom IMD offers an appealing opportunity, but in reality is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.El_Duderino 09 wrote: »I think IMD is a great opportunity to get that info out to people who don't have it. The people on boards who chat about this stuff regularly, know the issues. The average person doesn't talk about this stuff at all. So when they listen to the radio or watch the news on IMD they can get some new info.
See you’re starting from the assumption that people don’t already have the information you’re selling. They do! People are bombarded with it on a daily basis. Young people are bombarded with it to an even greater extent because they are the captive audience in schools, they can’t avoid being exposed to it. I have argued that the constant exposure to mental health advocacy actually creates and exacerbates the anxieties in young people it claims to offer solutions to. You’ve effectively created the problem, and you just so happen to also have the solution.El_Duderino 09 wrote: »How many people know boys are falling behind girls in education?
How many know about the stats on suicide?
How many know about the trouble good men experience trying to be a father to their children after their marriage breaks up?
These are some of the real life issues and I think IMD has potential to spread some really needed info. So you can talk it up or talk it down.
Spreading info about IMD only spreads info about IMD, that one day of the year when people pretend they give a shìte about addressing the issues you’ve highlighted above. In reality those issues are experienced by the average person 365 days of the year, and talking about IMD is not the same thing at all as actually taking any action to address the issues you have identified. People know about the issues you’ve highlighted, they are aware of the issues you’ve highlighted, but they just don’t have time to sit around and talk about the issues you’ve highlighted in the way you want them to talk about the issues you’ve highlighted, because they have other more important issues to them, on their minds. Rather than telling people they need to listen to you, I use a different approach - I listen to what people are actually telling me, and work with them as opposed to telling them they’re mean because they won’t listen to my ideas for them, or that they’re their own worst enemy, or any of the rest of that crap which demands people listen to you as you’re offering the solution to their problems, or at least what you have identified as their problem, from your perspective, informed by your own unwillingness to listen to people who don’t share your beliefs or ideas.
Tom Cruise would be of the opinion Scientology is a great idea and helps lots of people too. He would say the same thing of me talking down Scientology. I view IMD, IWD and the creation of a mental health cult in the same way as I do Scientology or Feminism or a whole host of ideologies. I’m critical of them because they create a problem, and then claim to offer solutions to the problems they have identified, essentially promoting themselves by perpetuating themselves, identical to the self-serving way in which Ponzi schemes work.0 -
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One eyed Jack wrote: »I’ll answer your question by addressing your next post, and perhaps you will understand why I don’t care for IMD the same way you appear to, and why I don’t agree with you that IMD is the good initiative you claim it is.
So you talk it down because I haven't focused on the things you want to highlight.
Has it occurred to you that you can use the day to raise the issues that you're concerned about (job security, mortgage payments, providing for family)? Has that seriously never occurred to you? The media will be listening to people who want to rise concerns on IMD. So you're making the choice to talk down IMD instead of positively raising the issues you care about.
The day isn't handed to you on a plate the way you'd ideally like it, so throw your toys out of the pram. I genuinely wonder if the day was based on the things you mentioned in that post, would you equally pick some other issues and complain that it's not representing the REAL issues and throw your toys out of the pram in exactly he same way.
I think IMD is just an inconvenience for some people who want to spend all year complaining that the world doesn't want to know about men's issues.0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »So you talk it down because I haven't focused on the things you want to highlight.
You’re still not listening.0 -
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Here's an event in Belfast on Tuesday 19th November.
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/international-mens-day-event-2019-tickets-74683471273
Focus on men's mental health and suicide prevention.0 -
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Men need to educate themselves on two very important issues in my opinion.
One, Domestic Violence, in 70% of non reciporical domestic violence cases, that is domestic violence where one partner is abusing the other unchallenged, is female on male, we do not have any figures on how toxic female manipulation manifests itself in other ways in relationships.
There are grown men suffering abuse in their homes all over this county that our society refuses to admit exists, in 2019!
The Irish taxpayer gives nearly €20 million a year to services provided to female victims of domestic violence, and less than €800,000 to Amen, the service provided to male victims, effectively denying Amen the ability to do the required research or provide any meaningful services to victims.
Two, The major drivers of male suicide are financial issues, relationship breakdown and parental alienation...when a marriage breaks down, men are in real danger of harming themselves as it is the male who leaves the family and the family home, to move to a more substandard accomodation away from their kids...this is one of the major issues facing men, young men need to be educated in how the health, education system and judiciary are becoming increasingly more hostile to men.0 -
Well, I'm not going to get bogged down in a circular argue fest on this thread...suffice to say I did my bit for men's health today with my taking part in the Dickie Dip with 400 other guys - raising €420 in donations for prostate cancer treatment.
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Silentcorner wrote: »
The Irish taxpayer gives nearly €20 million a year to services provided to female victims of domestic violence, and less than €800,000 to Amen, the service provided to male victims, effectively denying Amen the ability to do the required research or provide any meaningful services to victims.
That's because women over the years have worked hard to raise awareness, set up refuges off their own bat and to lobby the government for funding and support. (or maybe they just used their "toxic female manipulation" to get it?)
Because despite what you think, there was/is a real problem with Male on female domestic violence, resulting in many women and children losing their lives. (Do you have a link to that 70% stat btw?)
If men see a need for similar services geared towards males then they need to do the same. Raise awareness, lobby, get it done. Complaining about and blaming women for the lack of funding isnt going to do it.0 -
That's because women over the years have worked hard to raise awareness, set up refuges off their own bat and to lobby the government for funding and support. (or maybe they just used their "toxic female manipulation" to get it?)
Because despite what you think, there was/is a real problem with Male on female domestic violence, resulting in many women and children losing their lives. (Do you have a link to that 70% stat btw?)
If men see a need for similar services geared towards males then they need to do the same. Raise awareness, lobby, get it done. Complaining about and blaming women for the lack of funding isnt going to do it.
Well, actually, the Duluth model, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duluth_model, is what Women's group across the developed world subscribe to, which sytematically ignores male victims of domestic violence because of it's reliance on "Patriarchial oppression theory"....but my point is not that, it is up to men themselves to seek out the relevant information.
Personally, I would like to see A Men's Council established and funded, in the same manner as the Women's Council, it is only fair.0 -
That's because women over the years have worked hard to raise awareness, set up refuges off their own bat and to lobby the government for funding and support. (or maybe they just used their "toxic female manipulation" to get it?)
Because despite what you think, there was/is a real problem with Male on female domestic violence, resulting in many women and children losing their lives. (Do you have a link to that 70% stat btw?)
If men see a need for similar services geared towards males then they need to do the same. Raise awareness, lobby, get it done. Complaining about and blaming women for the lack of funding isnt going to do it.
This is it. Things happen because of activism, lobbying, hard work and time. There is no spare money in the budget. Nobody comes to women's domestic abuse charities and dishes out money that wasn't asked for.
I don't hold it against the people who lobbied for women's services. Fair play to them for doing what they felt was needed to achieve change. I would support anyone who lobbies or spreads information about the need for men's services. It's a real problem and deserves coverage.0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »His is it. Things happen because of activism, lobbying, hard work and time. There is no spare money in the budget. Nobody comes to women's domestic abuse charities and dishes out money that wasn't asked for.
I don't hold it against the people who lobbied for women's services. Fair play to them for doing what they felt was needed to achieve change. I would support anyone who lobbies or spreads information about the need for men's services. It's a real problem and deserves coverage.
I appreciate the spirit with which you started this thread, so I am mindful that I may be overstepping the mark, but if there were a Mens council, lobbying for fairer treatment in education, health and justice....it would be in direct conflict with The Women's Council over a number of vital issues, there is no way around that unfortunately, The Women's Council subscribe to the fantasy that we are living in an "Oppressive Patriachial System"...how can a domestic violence industry, and it is a well funded industry, face the reality that it has raised funding to the tune of 20 million a year based on a lie?0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »I appreciate the spirit with which you started this thread, so I am mindful that I may be overstepping the mark, but if there were a Mens council, lobbying for fairer treatment in education, health and justice....it would be in direct conflict with The Women's Council over a number of vital issues, there is no way around that unfortunately, The Women's Council subscribe to the fantasy that we are living in an "Oppressive Patriachial System"...how can a domestic violence industry, and it is a well funded industry, face the reality that it has raised funding to the tune of 20 million a year based on a lie?
What lie is the funding for women's domestic violence services based on?0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »I appreciate the spirit with which you started this thread, so I am mindful that I may be overstepping the mark, but if there were a Mens council, lobbying for fairer treatment in education, health and justice....it would be in direct conflict with The Women's Council over a number of vital issues, there is no way around that unfortunately, The Women's Council subscribe to the fantasy that we are living in an "Oppressive Patriachial System"...how can a domestic violence industry, and it is a well funded industry, face the reality that it has raised funding to the tune of 20 million a year based on a lie?
Do you have that link to the stat you quoted that I requested earlier?0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »What lie is the funding for women's domestic violence services based on?
I'm sorry Ceadoin I didn't spot that request, this is the lie I am reffereing to El Duderino!
https://www.mintpressnews.com/woman-aggressor-unspoken-truth-domestic-violence/196746/
http://newscastmedia.com/domestic-violence.htm
https://medium.com/@AliShahrestani/extensive-research-women-initiate-domestic-violence-more-than-men-men-under-report-it-3bbaa4fbec9d
This has all been known since the start of the Domestic Abuse issue came to public light back in the 70s...but radical feminists rejected it violently.0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »I'm sorry Ceadoin I didn't spot that request, this is the lie I am reffereing to El Duderino!
https://www.mintpressnews.com/woman-aggressor-unspoken-truth-domestic-violence/196746/
http://newscastmedia.com/domestic-violence.htm
https://medium.com/@AliShahrestani/extensive-research-women-initiate-domestic-violence-more-than-men-men-under-report-it-3bbaa4fbec9d
This has all been known since the start of the Domestic Abuse issue came to public light back in the 70s...but radical feminists rejected it violently.
I don’t get it. People lobby for funds for women victims of domestic abuse and are successful. There are females victims of domestic abuse. That’s not a lie.
The solution isn’t to give out about how successful the women’s activists have been. The solution is to support more lobbying for men’s support services.
I tried to point out earlier that there isn’t €20m pot of money for domestic violence and women get it all. If there were no lobbies for women’s services they would get next to nothing. The women have paved the road to lobbying for domestic violence, it’s up to any other groups who want money, to lobby for money for themselves.
The heart foundation doesn’t expect the cancer lobby to win money form them. It’s each for their own in lobbying.0 -
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That's because women over the years have worked hard to raise awareness, set up refuges off their own bat and to lobby the government for funding and support. (or maybe they just used their "toxic female manipulation" to get it?)
Because despite what you think, there was/is a real problem with Male on female domestic violence, resulting in many women and children losing their lives. (Do you have a link to that 70% stat btw?)
If men see a need for similar services geared towards males then they need to do the same. Raise awareness, lobby, get it done. Complaining about and blaming women for the lack of funding isnt going to do it.
Actually, studies have shown that women are more likely to kill children than men are.
On another note, it could be accused of toxic to portray domestic violence as all the time by the male including emotional abuse.0 -
Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »Actually, studies have shown that women are more likely to kill children than men are.
On another note, it could be accused of toxic to portray domestic violence as all the time by the male including emotional abuse.
Who is portraying domestic violence as solely perpetrated by men? Women saw a need for shelters that catered to women so they made it happen. If men see the same need then they need to do the same thing that women did and make it happen, rather than complaining about women getting all the funding due to their efforts over many years.
In the UK, 2 women a week are killed by a former or current partner. But yeah, it's all overblown or lies made up by the feminist lobby.
Anyway, this discussion has played out endlessly on this site. I dont want a thread about IMD to get derailed so back on topic, I think a day to raise awareness of mens issues is a good thing, particularly when it comes to health issues that effect solely them such as prostate or testicular cancer.0 -
Who is portraying domestic violence as solely perpetrated by men? Women saw a need for shelters that catered to women so they made it happen. If men see the same need then they need to do the same thing that women did and make it happen, rather than complaining about women getting all the funding due to their efforts over many years.
In the UK, 2 women a week are killed by a former or current partner. But yeah, it's all overblown or lies made up by the feminist lobby.
Anyway, this discussion has played out endlessly on this site. I dont want a thread about IMD to get derailed so back on topic, I think a day to raise awareness of mens issues is a good thing, particularly when it comes to health issues that effect solely them such as prostate or testicular cancer.
This is it. If you think domestic violence against men is an important issue, Nov 19th is a completely free opportunity to push that issue to the forefront. Great or what?
More info on the need for funding for male victims of DV!0 -
Who is portraying domestic violence as solely perpetrated by men? Women saw a need for shelters that catered to women so they made it happen. If men see the same need then they need to do the same thing that women did and make it happen, rather than complaining about women getting all the funding due to their efforts over many years.
In the UK, 2 women a week are killed by a former or current partner. But yeah, it's all overblown or lies made up by the feminist lobby.
Anyway, this discussion has played out endlessly on this site. I dont want a thread about IMD to get derailed so back on topic, I think a day to raise awareness of mens issues is a good thing, particularly when it comes to health issues that effect solely them such as prostate or testicular cancer.
I'd be curious to see the study.
But, I'd prefer if you didn't reply to this post so we don't derail the thread.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 25608
Silentcorner wrote: »Personally, I would like to see A Men's Council established and funded, in the same manner as the Women's Council, it is only fair.
So what's stopping you starting a campaign for it?
Do you think the women involved in what is referred to as the women's movement sat around waiting for things to happen?
They got out there, they campaigned, they got laughed at, some of them got attacked. These things did not happen over night.
Unless of course you were just having a dig.0 -
Of course they were laughed at. They were ridiculed and called complete fools and they also succeeded. Thy fraught against those who knew they were opposing progress and those who didn't know they were opposing progress. And they did their best for the people they were representing.So what's stopping you starting a campaign for it?
Do you think the women involved in what is referred to as the women's movement sat around waiting for things to happen?
They got out there, they campaigned, they got laughed at, some of them got attacked. These things did not happen over night.
Unless of course you were just having a dig.
I'd support the same movement by a men’s advocacy group.0 -
Two people who set up men's shelters - Erin Pizzey (a woman) in the US, and Mary Cleary in Ireland.
Can't stand this gaslighting stuff here. "It winds me up" is just an expression - it doesn't mean it devastates the person, it doesn't mean that they don't have bigger problems in life. People are always getting shouted down by "You're outraged" or "It's just a bit of a laugh" (as a way to deflect from their own meanspirited behaviour) and the vast majority of the time, people who say those things are constantly posting here despite being people who "don't care" about stuff on the internet.One eyed Jack wrote: »It was absolutely necessary IMO to point out that El_D has little to be getting worked up about if that’s what gets him worked up.
Also, of course strangers won't know about your birthday. They won't know about mine either. How is that relevant?
Viewing the entire sum of IMD as a marketing exercise or an exercise in virtue signalling, is cynicism for the sake of it, nothing more. Of course there are those who will do all that crap, and what about the others, who don't? What a jaundiced view to see only bad in people.0 -
Could you sue your employer for €4.89 million because the HR department celebrated International Womens Day but didn't acknowledge whatsoever International Mens Day?0
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Raconteuse wrote: »Can't stand this gaslighting stuff here. "It winds me up" is just an expression - it doesn't mean it devastates the person, it doesn't mean that they don't have bigger problems in life. People are always getting shouted down by "You're outraged" or "It's just a bit of a laugh" (as a way to deflect from their own meanspirited behaviour) and the vast majority of the time, people who say those things are constantly posting here despite being people who "don't care" about stuff on the internet.
Gaslighting? But “it winds me up” is just an expression?
I’ll take it you meant gaslighting as just an expression too as opposed to thinking you were actually seriously suggesting anyone here is gaslighting or being gaslighted.
You’re ignoring the attitude of the same poster towards anyone who disagrees with them, and if I was trying to advocate specifically for men’s welfare, I’d listen to what men are saying as opposed to trying to tell them they can have their special day to talk. You’re grand thanks. Men are perfectly capable of communicating with each other (and with other people in their lives) without being granted permission on one day of the year.Raconteuse wrote: »Also, of course strangers won't know about your birthday. They won't know about mine either. How is that relevant?
The point I was making was this -One eyed Jack wrote: »It’s also my birthday, nobody gives a fcuk about that either and you don’t see me getting wound up about it. Because like my birthday, I don’t need to advertise myself as a decent human being on social media.Raconteuse wrote: »Viewing the entire sum of IMD as a marketing exercise or an exercise in virtue signalling, is cynicism for the sake of it, nothing more. Of course there are those who will do all that crap, and what about the others, who don't? What a jaundiced view to see only bad in people.
It’s cynical alright, but not just for the sake of it. My cynicism is based upon the fact that these days are nothing more than a way for the people who pretend to care about other people to promote themselves. I don’t want to see bad in anyone, and I said as much to El_D earlier when I said -One eyed Jack wrote: »Don’t get me wrong, I know your heart is in the right place and all, but it seems as though you want to sell IMD because it means something to you, and your frustration comes from the fact that other people aren’t interested in buying what you’re selling because they don’t see your amazing product the same way you do.0 -
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One eyed Jack wrote: »Gaslighting? But “it winds me up” is just an expression?
I’ll take it you meant gaslighting as just an expression too as opposed to thinking you were actually seriously suggesting anyone here is gaslighting or being gaslighted.
You’re ignoring the attitude of the same poster towards anyone who disagrees with them, and if I was trying to advocate specifically for men’s welfare, I’d listen to what men are saying as opposed to trying to tell them they can have their special day to talk. You’re grand thanks. Men are perfectly capable of communicating with each other without being granted permission on one day of the year.
The point I was making was this -
It’s cynical alright, but not just for the sake of it. My cynicism is based upon the fact that these days are nothing more than a way for the people who pretend to care about other people to promote themselves I don’t want to see bad in anyone, and I said as much to El_D earlier when I said -
OK that's fine. Put aside all the stuff about the "people who pretend to care about other people to promote themselves" and promote the things you want to promote because obviously you "don’t want to see bad in anyone" as you said to me earlier.
So use the day to promote the things you want to promote. Or if you don't care to promote anything, support those who want to promote things.0
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