Roscommon GAA Discussion Thread

theoneeyedman · 06-05-2012 6:12pm

Well done to Dublin the better team and in particular the better squad won out . Being able to change 2 wing forwards a full forward and a midfielder and for every sub to have a positive impact was the main difference . Dcr you are being selective in your critism of the ref. There was big hits on both sides . My critism of him was the reluctance of him to allow roscommon defence to force frees from the Dublin attack. Instead of pulling for overcarrying he allowed players to run through the tackles irrespective of the steps taken.
But overall Roscommon can have no complaints. We were in rte game through more accurate shooting, and losing the final quarter by 106 to zero is harsh but was a sign of the strength of the Dublin squad

rossie1977 · 06-05-2012 6:30pm

dcr22B wrote: »

Is there many of those lads on the senior panel?

only one of the roscommon team have played senior championship football, number 9 niall daly and he came on with about 5 mins to go against tyrone last year, loads of that team are underage for next year

the roscommon management team were very niave, eventually roscommmons weakness (midfield) was going to get exposed when they came up against a top class team and yet the goalkeeper kept kicking the ball down the throat of the dublin midfielders when short kickouts should have been the order of the day after half time, shine (8) is a full forward naturally and daly (9) is a defender so both are being played out of position because there is no-one else until young tom corcoran is old enough next year to step up

Emmet Ryan · 06-05-2012 7:01pm

I've put together some tactical analysis on today's game for anyone interested
http://action81.com/blog/?p=5778

megadodge · 06-05-2012 7:03pm

Really disappointed with the loss, though it has to be said that Dublin deserved the win. Ros could have (as distinct form 'should have') won, but the strength in depth of Dublin really told in the end.

From a Roscommon perspective, they didn't capitilise enough when they had their periods of dominance and then the soft goal (from my viewpoint it looked like one of the backs gathered the breaking ball then spilled it, leaving a point blank attempt) meant they went in at halftime behind instead of ahead.

Midfield was dominant for most of the first half with loads of breaking ball won, but then from the middle of the second half the Roscommon goalie amazingly kicked at least 5 consecutive kickouts to the opposite side of the field to our best chance of fielding it - Shine - and towards their best fielder!!! It made no sense whatsoever and Dublin won each of those kickouts and proceeded to punish.

Then just as that was manifesting itself they took off Cian Connolly who by my reckoning won every single ball kicked in his direction and was skinning his man effortlessly, scoring two sublime points and setting up a few more. That wasn't where there was a problem.

I thought the ref was solid enough, but definitely let a number of Dublin players overcarry in the second half.

Anyway I suppose I'm nitpicking a bit, because I'm very proud of this bunch of players, a number of whom I expect to play senior at a high level for Roscommon in the coming decade. They did us proud and I for one want to thank them for their efforts.

Syferus · 06-05-2012 7:30pm

I don't think I could be more proud of our lads - our men - even if they had won. They have proven themselves true champions this year and no Roscommon man or woman will ever forget their efforts this year. And in the final act of the campaign they turned what most assumed to be a procession march into the game of the championship. Wonderful.

Paddy Brogan was the very definition of a captain, a leader, on the field today. His play forced his direct opposition to be hauled off very early in the second half, he hoovered up ball, picked passes and drove forward. He laid the most immense hit I've ever seen on a football field on Emmet O'Conghaile, Dublin's wonderful midfielder, that left him collapsed in a heap for all of two minutes, he exemplified the fact if anything we were the ones bristling with physicality today and not Dublin, a team lauded for their raw strength. If I don't see Brogan wearing a senior jersey in the next 12 months Des Newton needs better contact lenses.

Connolly tormented Dublin in the first half, Keane delivered our last score, a booming long range point that made you realise that the title was within touching distance. Compton, Smith, Daly and Shine were as always, imperious.

We responded to the goal before half-time as a true All-Ireland finalist should - with a raised intensity and a barrage of points. I wouldn't even say Dublin's subs changed this game - Emmet O'Conghaile did that almost entirely by himself. His fielding in the last 15 minutes was magical, cleanly winning most ever ball that went near him. If we could have broke a few more balls I felt our forwards still had enough gas to do more damage and our defence coped very well with the huge amount of pressure they came under late on. Eventually the pressure, and some lovely scores, built up a healthy lead for Dublin. The last goal being a sucker punch that provides a gloss in history books that no one who saw the game will agree with.

Well done to Dublin. Does losing to the "best u-21 team of all-time" make us the best u-21 team not to win the All-Ireland?

To the players - you owe nothing to any fan, trainer, manager or team-mate. You conducted yourselves, both on and off the field, with a dignity and a pride that can only energise the county going forward. Even if it feels like the end right now there will be opportunities for all of you in the future, be it at u-21 again, at senior or club, you've shown the entire country you are an exceptionally talented and dedicated group.

The primrose and blue flies high tonight.

LeoB · 07-05-2012 1:20am

Syferus wrote: »

I don't think I could be more proud of our lads - our men - even if they had won. They have proven themselves true champions this year and no Roscommon man or woman will ever forget their efforts this year. And in the final act of the campaign they turned what most assumed to be a procession march into the game of the championship. Wonderful. .

Your right to be proud of them lads. Great bunch of players who cant be faulted for their effort.

Syferus wrote: »

Paddy Brogan was the very definition of a captain, a leader, on the field today. His play forced his direct opposition to be hauled off very early in the second half,.

Not quite. Danny Byrne got injured in first half and Dublin playing Danny on him was a mistake. Gary Sweeney moved to the wing but when he did come inside NO-ONE could handle him. He has electric pace but in Fairness Brogan gave an excellent display and played some good ball all through the match

Syferus wrote: »

He laid the most immense hit I've ever seen on a football field on Emmet O'Conghaile, Dublin's wonderful midfielder, that left him collapsed in a heap for all of two minutes, he exemplified the fact if anything we were the ones bristling with physicality today and not Dublin, a team lauded for their raw strength. ,.

Was this actually part of the Roscommon downfall? When you approach a game with such hunger and drive and the adreniln pumping it can actually drain you. Dublin kept to their game kept plugging away and eventually got the scores. Raw strength wins very little if you dont compliment it with skill. Dublin have a few big lads, bulky but mobile but his raw strength is not accurate at all

Syferus wrote: »

I wouldn't even say Dublin's subs changed this game - Emmet O'Conghaile did that almost entirely by himself. His fielding in the last 15 minutes was magical, cleanly winning most ever ball that went near him. If we could have broke a few more balls I felt our forwards still had enough gas to do more damage and our defence coped very well with the huge amount of pressure they came under late on. Eventually the pressure, and some lovely scores, built up a healthy lead for Dublin. The last goal being a sucker punch that provides a gloss in history books that no one who saw the game will agree with. ,.

Have to disagree with you here. While O'Conghaile gave a great display and caught some great ball The Dublin subs were excellent and the player I thought who turned the match was Gerry Seaver who came on for aforemention injured Danny Byrne, he also scored a good point but each time he got possession he used it very well and injected a bit of pace into Dublin which was lacking. Slow ball to quick forwards is useless and both sides were guilty of this by times. Reddin got injured just before half time when Dublin were on top and he went off which was also a big loss but O'Higgins done well also as Did Harry Dawson who also got on scoresheet. And the final score the second goal came from Paul Mannion another sub.

Syferus wrote: »

To the players - you owe nothing to any fan, trainer, manager or team-mate. You conducted yourselves, both on and off the field, with a dignity and a pride that can only energise the county going forward. Even if it feels like the end right now there will be opportunities for all of you in the future, be it at u-21 again, at senior or club, you've shown the entire country you are an exceptionally talented and dedicated group.

The primrose and blue flies high tonight.

When all was said and done with 15 minute or so to go I would have taken a draw. I was impressed by Roscommon when the cut loose. They played Some of the best football I have seen from any team. They got great scores used the ball well and some superb fielding. I thought both full back lines were good when they were each under pressure. Both sides slowed down the delivery into their forwards and this gave defences a chance to pack.

Everyone should be very proud of the players on both sides 2 very sporting teams.

Syferus · 07-05-2012 1:57am

I think alot of it is down to our middle - Niall Daly is an exceptionally talented half-back, already a starter for the seniors, but midfield isn't his best position. And while Cathal Shine is a magnificent ball winner he's only returning to fitness after a horrible injury that side-lined him for a year. Today was only his second game, barring 10 minute cameos v. Mayo and Sligo, back and he was clearly winded by the end. The same pattern occured against Cavan in the semi but Dublin's dominance in the middle in the last ten coupled with classy point-scoring forwards saw them captalise where Cavan failed.

A couple gaps opened up in or defence late on but I don't think we'd over-exerted ourselves, if we'd been able to burst O'Conghaile's balloon a few times and get the ball into our forwards they had already shown their ability to score and cause Dublin alot of trouble. The constant pressure of the ball rebounding at you from every kick-out played far more of a role than Dublin's subs, who although good, profited mainly from huge amounts of possession.

What impressed me most was that we never allowed Dublin to really out-muscle us. Yes, O'Conghaile was exceptionally strong in the middle late on but overall we more than held our own physically, fighting through Dublin tackles, laying our own hits and generally forcing Dublin to win the game with their talent rather than their strength. Dublin's 20 looked like a cross between Bigfoot and the Hulk, though.

corny · 07-05-2012 5:17am

Syferus wrote: »

A couple gaps opened up in or defence late on but I don't think we'd over-exerted ourselves,

Thats not right, they completely ran out of steam. It was evident from about 15 minutes from the end fellas were wilting. It was no coincidence they dominated the opening periods of both halves only to fade as tiredness became an issue. Just to emphasise the fact, i make it Dublin scored just two points in the opening 20 minutes of both halves combined (one in either half) and 1-6 in the last 10 minutes! Roscommon were dominant when fresh.

I don't know if its the age profile, fitness levels or Dublin physicality taking its toll but the main reason for the collapse late on wasn't great Dublin play or impact from the bench it was Roscommon fatigue. Certain of it.

Not a criticism btw, a compliment to lads who left nothing out there.

Drummerboy2 · 07-05-2012 12:55pm

Have to say with 15 minutes left I thought Roscommon were going to win. But O'Conghaile took control of midfield and the substitutes made a huge difference to Dublin. Thought the different battles around the pitch were fascinating. George and Smyth had a real ding dong battle in particular. My man of the match was O'Conghaile who recovered from an immense hit on him in the first half.

Hard luck to Roscommon, they were magnificent for three quarters of the game and done their county proud. I'm sure quite a few of them will go on to have great senior careers.

wow sierra · 07-05-2012 1:36pm

Well done to all the Roscommon players and management. Brilliant display yesterday in Tullamore. Dublin were just that bit better.

This was a great game of football with brilliant skill on display - some wonderful scores and great intensity in the battles all over the field.

I know this is a Roscommon thread but I have to say Emmett OConghaile was immense - he gave an inspirational display of fielding. There was some criticism of the Roscommon kickouts going to him - but it didn't matter where the ball was kicked he was there.!

theoneeyedman · 07-05-2012 4:37pm

.
Its probably worth noting that roscommon have lost four players that played minor and eligible for this team to rugby in David qualter, shane leydon, ( both u20 internationals) jack carty and David butler. Having these 4 lads to call on yesterday would have been a huge boost ( no disrespect meant to the lads involved yesterday). Good luck to the lads, but a county with the playing numbers roscommon have cant afford to lose talented players like this
Btw syferus if you couldnt see the fatigue in players around the middle i dont know what game you were watching. They had ran themselves into the ground in fairness,

nice_guy80 · 07-05-2012 5:09pm

would any of this years minors have made a difference if introduced yesterday as subs?
or has Roscommon a policy of not playing players 'up' a grade

blowitupref · 07-05-2012 5:37pm

Emmet Ryan wrote: »

I've put together some tactical analysis on today's game for anyone interested
http://action81.com/blog/?p=5778

The two goals (6 points) Dublin scored more than made up for the wides they kicked but a well written piece nonetheless.

At all levels Roscommon seem to able to compete with the best however the way they fall away in games has to be concern & needs to be worked on in order to progress.

Emmet Ryan · 07-05-2012 8:52pm

Cheers. Yeah I think Dublin's ability to create so many more chances than Roscommon was a big factor in the end. 25-15 in that department which is a huge advantage.

rossie1977 · 16-05-2012 1:45pm

1. Geoffrey Claffey (C);
2. Seánie McDermott; 3. Niall Carty; 4. Seán Purcell;
5. Cathal Dineen; 6. Peter Domican; 7. Ian Kilbride;
8. Michael Finneran; 9. Karol Mannion;
10. David Keenan; 11. Cathal Cregg; 12. John Rogers;
13. Senan Kilbride; 14. Darren McDermott; 15. Donie Shine;

dineen over daly, rogers over o'gara :mad:

Fozzie Bear · 16-05-2012 1:51pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

1. Geoffrey Claffey (C);
2. Seánie McDermott; 3. Niall Carty; 4. Seán Purcell;
5. Cathal Dineen; 6. Peter Domican; 7. Ian Kilbride;
8. Michael Finneran; 9. Karol Mannion;
10. David Keenan; 11. Cathal Cregg; 12. John Rogers;
13. Senan Kilbride; 14. Darren McDermott; 15. Donie Shine;

dineen over daly, rogers over o'gara :mad:

He better have come on in leaps and bounds since last year. Hope to God Donal Warde gets back to full fitness sooner rather then later and gets back into the CHB line. Surely O'Gara will make an appearance at some stage too.

Can't see McDermott playing at FF either, would think himself and Senan will swop or else play a two man FF line and bring Donie out the field.

rossie1977 · 16-05-2012 2:04pm

donie and senan i would expect to play up top, cregg and mcdermott half forward with rogers and keenan supporting midfield/half back line

Syferus · 16-05-2012 8:06pm

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

He better have come on in leaps and bounds since last year. Hope to God Donal Warde gets back to full fitness sooner rather then later and gets back into the CHB line. Surely O'Gara will make an appearance at some stage too.

Can't see McDermott playing at FF either, would think himself and Senan will swop or else play a two man FF line and bring Donie out the field.

Dineen was probably our best player in the league, he completely deserves to start. Domican, not Dineen, was picked over Daly. I love Ward but he's going to have to be out another 5-7 weeks and we've no need to rush him anyways because if he was fit today I'd think he'd have a hard time factoring into the equation, such is the depth of talent we have at HB, never mind Keenan and Rogers who both essentially played as roaming HBs throughout the league. No need to worry at all about the HB line.

blowitupref · 16-05-2012 8:18pm

When the pressure was on Roscommon's half back line was poor vs Tyrone,Mayo last year. Having seen Rogers a few times i'm not sure why he's included instead of Higgins,Devaney,O'Gara or one of this year's U-21s. Wasn't Dineen the defender that kept fouling Mayo forwards in the Connacht final & had to be taken off after only coming on?

rossie1977 · 16-05-2012 8:57pm

blowitupref wrote: »

When the pressure was on Roscommon's half back line was poor vs Tyrone,Mayo last year. Having seen Rogers a few times i'm not sure why he's included instead of Higgins,Devaney,O'Gara or one of this year's U-21s. Wasn't Dineen the defender that kept fouling Mayo forwards in the Connacht final & had to be taken off after only coming on?

yes he was, he is completely out of his depth at this level, its all well and good saying he did ok in the league but sunday is a different planet, dineen and rogers shouldn't be near the squad

there are serious question marks over carty who has no competitive football this year and purcell (who simply isn't very good)

Figment · 17-05-2012 8:21am

Syferus · 17-05-2012 1:41pm

Jesus 77, where has all this guff been through the first five months? Purcell isn't fantastic but he's no liability. You always seem set on putting a comical level of skeptism on every match or line-up. We've named a team fully capable of scalping Galway.

rossie1977 · 17-05-2012 2:41pm

there are better players available to us than purcell, dineen and rogers is my thinking

i see donie shine doesn't seem all that confident heading into sunday

A Connacht title would make a good season but this is a very big test trying to beat Galway. It's a Division 3 team against a Division 2 team so we have it all to do. Between Mayo and Galway, you have two very good teams and between the rest, we are just lagging a bit behind. If you could break that form and get up there with Mayo and Galway on a more regular basis, that would be good for the province.

Syferus · 17-05-2012 2:59pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

there are better players available to us than purcell, dineen and rogers is my thinking

i see donie shine doesn't seem all that confident heading into sunday

He was taught well by Fergie. Donie, of all players, will relish Galway at the Hyde - he always seems to step it up on the big occasions.

razor425 · 17-05-2012 3:26pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

there are better players available to us than purcell, dineen and rogers is my thinking

Agreed, Ormsby(is he available?) is much better than Purcell, Daly is better than Dineen and O'Gara is much better than Rogers. Question marks about Carty and D McDermott also imo.

rossie1977 · 17-05-2012 3:38pm

razor425 wrote: »

Agreed, Ormsby(is he available?) is much better than Purcell, Daly is better than Dineen and O'Gara is much better than Rogers. Question marks about Carty and D McDermott also imo.

ormsby is gone to england for work but he has been f**ked around for 2 years now by both fergal and newton

Syferus · 17-05-2012 4:16pm

razor425 wrote: »

Agreed, Ormsby(is he available?) is much better than Purcell, Daly is better than Dineen and O'Gara is much better than Rogers. Question marks about Carty and D McDermott also imo.

Some insane stuff in this thread - Darren Mc is an excellent talent (at all levels, he's been a gifted player for as long as I've watched him) who hasn't put in a single bad performance as a senior, including his first start against Tyrone in Croke Park last year, being thrown into the fire to say the least. No question marks about his talent or head, he's got great hands, is a natural scorer (his late one against Longford was an absolute beauty) and looks to pass rather than run around forward like a headless chicken.

Carty's only knock is that he's only coming back from injury, his talent was never in question. I'd have started Collins and brought Carty on i nthe secodn half, but that's me.

Dineen, again, deserves his spot and to not give him the start would send the absolute wrong message to a squad in which we're trying to foster genuine competition for places. Rogers, too, played very well in the sweeper role and that's a slot where experience is of huge benefit.

O'Gara may still start, it should be said. Newton has a record of fudging line-ups and Keenan is carrying a bit of a knock from the last challenge game v. Derry.

77, about Ormsby: seriously? We're playing the 'oh woe is us, the manger(s) screwed him over!' card? Ormsby played plenty of games, even this year, and had he stayed he would have been very much involved.

razor425 · 17-05-2012 4:48pm

Syferus wrote: »

Some insane stuff in this thread - Darren Mc is an excellent talent (at all levels, he's been a gifted player for as long as I've watched him) who hasn't put in a single bad performance as a senior, including his first start against Tyrone in Croke Park last year, being thrown into the fire to say the least. No question marks about his talent or head, he's got great hands, is a natural scorer (his late one against Longford was an absolute beauty) and looks to pass rather than run around forward like a headless chicken.

Carty's only knock is that he's only coming back from injury, his talent was never in question. I'd have started Collins and brought Carty on i nthe secodn half, but that's me.

Dineen, again, deserves his spot and to not give him the start would send the absolute wrong message to a squad in which we're trying to foster genuine competition for places. Rogers, too, played very well in the sweeper role and that's a slot where experience is of huge benefit.

O'Gara may still start, it should be said. Newton has a record of fudging line-ups and Keenan is carrying a bit of a knock from the last challenge game v. Derry.

77, about Ormsby: seriously? We're playing the 'oh woe is us, the manger(s) screwed him over!' card? Ormsby played plenty of games, even this year, and had he stayed he would have been very much involved.

McDermott is a good solid player but an excellent talent he is not. Should be in the squad and probably in the first 24 but not much more than that. We have much better forwards available than him in Compton, O'Gara and Devanney. Admittedly only Compton could play at FF but we could easily move Donie to FF and play one of the above mentionned in the corner.

With regards Collins, I would definetly have him starting. We have being trying to get him on the panel for the last 2 years with no success and now when we have him we screw him over for a player just recovering from injury who might not last a full game.

Dineen is just poor imo and Daly is a much better option. Dineen is a bit of a headless chicken. I would have Rogers pushing for a starting place but to have him ahead of O'Gara is madness imo.

rossie1977 · 17-05-2012 5:04pm

a half fit carty is better than a fully fit collins at fullback

and yes syferus, ormsby was screwed over he had a fine game against leitrim last year in carrick and fergal then dropped him for the final replacing him with purcell, when ward went off instead of bringing purcell into half back (which is his correct position) they brought on dineen which was an utter disaster and lost the game for us, newton had him out of the team more than in, imo he is the best defender we have (along with domican)

Syferus · 17-05-2012 5:07pm

razor425 wrote: »

McDermott is a good solid player but an excellent talent he is not. Should be in the squad and probably in the first 24 but not much more than that. We have much better forwards available than him in Compton, O'Gara and Devanney. Admittedly only Compton could play at FF but we could easily move Donie to FF and play one of the above mentionned in the corner.

With regards Collins, I would definetly have him starting. We have being trying to get him on the panel for the last 2 years with no success and now when we have him we screw him over for a player just recovering from injury who might not last a full game.

Dineen is just poor imo and Daly is a much better option. Dineen is a bit of a headless chicken. I would have Rogers pushing for a starting place but to have him ahead of O'Gara is madness imo.

Have you seen him this year? I was convinced he had no place on the team the last two years but the man has been reborn under Newton, he's as tenacious a defender as we have, has removed the fouling from his game and makes plenty of driving runs up the wing. He's been a leader on the team this year, and don't give me the line about 'the league not mattering', Dineen was never playing at this high a level before.

I would never have believed after last year's Connacht final that Dineen would be starting our next Connacht championship match, let alone be happy about that fact, but that's sport. Don't ever throw anyone on the scrap heap, especially in a county of our size.

Roscommon GAA Discussion Thread

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