Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

devnull · 10-09-2018 7:23pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

We can't IE just run the 8 car units. Do they not have enough?

If they ran 8 car units all the time the last timetable wouldn't be possible, let alone the current one.

LeinsterDub · 10-09-2018 7:25pm

devnull wrote: »

If they ran 8 car units all the time the last timetable wouldn't be possible, let alone the current one.

Why. Are you saying they don't have enough units to run the service or is it to do with signals or rails?

Klonker · 10-09-2018 7:41pm

devnull wrote: »

The problem is with a new timetable and people turning up at the old times as they don't know about it, some who do know about it, you don't know exactly what trains are going to be the busiest, or how people will adapt their commute times when they realise that there is a new timetable. That's why you see inconsistent loading on trains that I've seen today, where you can have a fairly empty train either side of two absolutely sardine ones.

You've stated this a few times but its still as wrong as when you first said it. The problem for example between Malahide/Howth and Howth Junction, is that there are less frequency of darts/trains at peak hours than before, and on top of this there's less capacity due to less carriages. The only way this will even out is if people get a dart before 6.30AM or after 9.00AM, not really possible for most workers. I can guarantee there was no inconsistent loading from 7-9AM heading southbound anyway. These darts are then packed by the time they role into Howth Junction, who have lots of darts passing through but no capacity on them.

They need to add 2 commuter trains to Malahide, Portmarnock and Clongriffin stations at peak morning times not sure what they can do for Howth as I can't see them adding another dart.

end of the road · 10-09-2018 7:46pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why. Are you saying they don't have enough units to run the service or is it to do with signals or rails?

they don't have enough units over all.
essentially, they have enough units to send out a train to run the service, but they don't have enough units to have double unit trains on all services that would require it. the previous timetable had the same issue but to a lesser extent, but the new timetable means that units previously used to lengthen other services are now themselves running the extra services.

CatInABox · 10-09-2018 7:53pm

I wonder will they turn the Howth branch into a shuttle service? That'd allow a ten minute Dart service all the way out to Malahide.

Of course, dumping three stations worth of people into Howth Junction would be the major problem with this, would a Dart every ten minutes be able to deal with that much extra people?

Colonel Claptrap · 10-09-2018 8:05pm

CatInABox wrote: »

would a Dart every ten minutes be able to deal with that much extra people?

If peak commuter services stopped there also, it could work.

Although I would imagine locals on the Howth spur wouldn't be happy.

How quickly could a single shuttle complete that loop or would a second DART be needed? 2 x 4 carriages perhaps?

CatInABox · 10-09-2018 8:12pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

If peak commuter services stopped there also, it could work.

Although I would imagine locals on the Howth spur wouldn't be happy.

How quickly could a single shuttle complete that loop or would a second DART be needed? 2 x 4 carriages perhaps?

It's scheduled for nine minutes, but I'll be honest, haven't gotten a Dart from there in ages, so don't know if the reality matches the schedule.

LEIN · 10-09-2018 8:12pm

Is there any plans in the pipe line for additional DART units?

Are the Spanish sets beyond any type of service?

devnull · 10-09-2018 8:18pm

Klonker wrote: »

You've stated this a few times but its still as wrong as when you first said it. The problem for example between Malahide/Howth and Howth Junction, is that there are less frequency of darts/trains at peak hours than before, and on top of this there's less capacity due to less carriages.

Clongriffin has a higher frequency than it did before, because the first half of morning peak no commuter trains stopped there and it had a service every 30 minutes and now it has a service every 20 minutes. Even in the second half of morning peak not many commuter trains stopped there.

I agree there are problems but this is day one and as I said before, no new timetable works well on the first few days, no tram timetable does as we've seen with LUAS and I've seen many problems on new bus services and timetables on the first day, first few days you observe to see what happens and then you start to apply fixes once you have some idea of the demand per train and time, once everyone knows there is a new timetable and adapted accordingly.

The only way this will even out is if people get a dart before 6.30AM or after 9.00AM, not really possible for most workers.

The first DART from Malahide was at 6.30am, it is now at 6.20am which means that people from Malahide, Clongriffin and Portmarnock can now make Eastpoint for a 7.00am start time that they could not before!

They need to add 2 commuter trains to Malahide, Portmarnock and Clongriffin stations at peak morning times not sure what they can do for Howth as I can't see them adding another dart.

Howth was olverserved in the old timetable with the balance of Malahide and Howth stacked heavily in favour of Howth, leaving to the 40 minute gap I previously talked about in evening peak on the Malahide branch where people would leave off at Eastpoint at 6pm and wait over half an hour for a train.

The Clontarf issue was a real one but could have easily been solved by simply stopping a single commuter there to fill the 40 minute gap.

pm1977x · 10-09-2018 8:18pm

8.40 from Glenageary was fine...until leaving Dun Laoghaire, when it was pretty much full. By Blackrock it was sardine time and no doubt very uncomfortable for people standing (I had a seat). By Grand Canal Dock it was emptying out again but definitely felt it could do with another carriage or 2 for the earlier stops. Hopefully it will even out as people get used to the increased frequency but I have my doubts, particularly as some college students aren't back yet.

ted1 · 10-09-2018 8:31pm

Was just down on Killiney beach Darts flying past every few minutes was a wonder too see.

tnegun · 10-09-2018 8:36pm

Could the mothballed Dart sets be inserted into the middle of working sets as nonpowered cars to give extra capacity or are there compatability issues?

end of the road · 10-09-2018 8:36pm

LEIN wrote: »

Is there any plans in the pipe line for additional DART units?

as far as i know, no . there are plans for bi-modes however, but how far they have gone i don't know. i think they are for maynooth and droghida services with a view to electrification of those lines in the medium term however.

LEIN wrote: »

Are the Spanish sets beyond any type of service?

i'd say so tbh. they were unreliable junk when they were in service. i'd imagine it would cost a massive amount to simply make them reliable, that's as well as the likely high cost of refurbishment that they would need to simply bring them back into service after all this time.

end of the road · 10-09-2018 8:38pm

tnegun wrote: »

Could the mothballed Dart sets be inserted into the middle of working sets as nonpowered cars to give extra capacity or are there compatability issues?

i'd imagine there would be compatibility issues tbh.

Chris_5339762 · 10-09-2018 8:42pm

From the perspective of someone who never uses the DART and just today happened to use it just once to travel three stations, the 10 minute service was fantastic. Chances are you get there with like 5 or 6 minutes to wait which is brilliant. Thats a European level of service and its what we need.

HOWEVER

The track does not have the capacity to do it, with intercities thrown in too. How on earth can it be made better? I don't know. A third line? Dunno where it would go. Bray to Greystones one track, that close to Dublin? Its ludicrous. But we need to find a solution.

There also need to be more DART units. Every peak train should be 8-set, its common sense. Buy more. Do it.

Infini · 10-09-2018 8:55pm

tnegun wrote: »

Could the mothballed Dart sets be inserted into the middle of working sets as nonpowered cars to give extra capacity or are there compatability issues?

I'd say those units are unfit for service if they've been mothballed, could have defects on them which is why they're not used.

Infini · 10-09-2018 8:58pm

LEIN wrote: »

Is there any plans in the pipe line for additional DART units?

Are the Spanish sets beyond any type of service?

Those Spanish sets are long gone lol they got sold off ages ago last I heard.

As for new unit's government needs to stop messing around and cough up capital for extra DMU's like the Japanese ones. The older Darts are also getting on in year's as well theyll be 35 Years old by 2020 and usually these thing's have a 40 odd year lifespan before they're replaced. Doors on those sets are also slower to close as well.

Rashers72 · 10-09-2018 9:46pm

Infini wrote: »

As for new unit's government needs to stop messing around and cough up capital for extra DMU's like the Japanese ones.

Seats are a nightmare on those Japanese EMU's. For anything beyond a 10 minute journey whomever evaluated those should be held accountable. Funnily enough most passengers don't seem to complain that much...

Cloudio9 · 10-09-2018 10:17pm

Rashers72 wrote: »

Seats are a nightmare on those Japanese EMU's. For anything beyond a 10 minute journey whomever evaluated those should be held accountable. Funnily enough most passengers don't seem to complain that much...

Yeah the old carriages are way more comfortable and feel wider. I can’t sit opposite someone without sitting to one side on the new ones.

Stephen15 · 10-09-2018 10:21pm

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Yeah the old carriages are way more comfortable and feel wider. I can’t sit opposite someone without sitting to one side on the new ones.

I prefer the 8100 class but the one problem I have have with them is they feel a bit more like a light rail vehicle whereas the 8500 class while the seats aren't great feel a bit more solid on rails and more like a proper train.

devnull · 10-09-2018 10:30pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I prefer the 8100 class but the one problem I have have with them is they feel a bit more like a light rail vehicle whereas the 8500 class while the seats aren't great feel a bit more solid on rails and more like a proper train.

I generally don't like bench seats but I prefer the 8100 class to the 8500 and 8510 trains with the crazy amounts of padding and low seating position that pretty much encourages slouching. The 8520s are the second best after the 8100 a big improvement over the overly padded ones and more room.

The 8100s really feel more cut out for the kind of work DART is, which is basically inner suburban work rather than the newer stuff that feels more like an outer suburban train that has had a few things taken out of it.

The general feeling of quality is better on the 8100s as well, they have a PIS that works, thay have good windows, they feel like a train and the build quality seems better on the interior if you ask me. The refurbishment really was excellent, they look nothing like their age and their older siblings are still in service in Hamburg.

When the 8100s finally go to be scrapped I hope they preserve at least one full set, as it will be a really sad day for a well built train that has served Dublin exceptionally well and is probably the last of the IE stock that will see anything like 40 years in service. I normally prefer new to old, but I make an exception for the 8100s.

bk · 10-09-2018 10:53pm

Well the rumour has it that Irish Rail are currently preparing a tender for a large numbers of both EMU's (DARTs) and hybrid diesel-electric trains for commuter services.

I would assume that this isn't just replacing old DARTs, but a significant expansion too.

It does look like this new 10 minute schedule is workable in terms of scheduling and paths, which is great news. But if only they had more DART carriages and thus all 8 carriage trains, then it seems most of the above complaints would be resolved.

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

ted1 · 10-09-2018 10:56pm

bk wrote: »

Well the rumour has it that Irish Rail are currently preparing a tender for a large numbers of both EMU's (DARTs) and hybrid diesel-electric trains for commuter services.

I would assume that this isn't just replacing old DARTs, but a significant expansion too.

It does look like this new 10 minute schedule is workable in terms of scheduling and paths, which is great news. But if only they had more DART carriages and thus all 8 carriage trains, then it seems most of the above complaints would be resolved.

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

I know Irish rail have been getting ready to build new substations for the expansion

lawred2 · 10-09-2018 10:57pm

bk wrote: »

Well the rumour has it that Irish Rail are currently preparing a tender for a large numbers of both EMU's (DARTs) and hybrid diesel-electric trains for commuter services.

I would assume that this isn't just replacing old DARTs, but a significant expansion too.

It does look like this new 10 minute schedule is workable in terms of scheduling and paths, which is great news. But if only they had more DART carriages and thus all 8 carriage trains, then it seems most of the above complaints would be resolved.

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

Should this not have been done first?

bk · 10-09-2018 11:06pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Should this not have been done first?

All of it, 10 minute DARTs, electrification, extra trains, etc. should have been 10 years ago.

CatInABox · 10-09-2018 11:29pm

bk wrote: »

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

The NTA's schedule is pretty full these days.

They are meant to finish the BusConnects consultation (28th Sept), then publish the plans for metro link (Meant to be last month, but probably delayed due to the BusConnects consultation extention), then the BusConnects Core Corridors plan is to be published in October (This might have been put back by the others as well).

I think if we see more about the Dart Expansion before the new year, we'll be lucky.

end of the road · 11-09-2018 12:16am

Infini wrote: »

Those Spanish sets are long gone lol they got sold off ages ago last I heard.

As for new unit's government needs to stop messing around and cough up capital for extra DMU's like the Japanese ones. The older Darts are also getting on in year's as well theyll be 35 Years old by 2020 and usually these thing's have a 40 odd year lifespan before they're replaced. Doors on those sets are also slower to close as well.

the 8200s are still in inchicore as far as i know. IE did try to sell them a few years ago but there was no interest (unsurprisingly)

Infini · 11-09-2018 1:51am

bk wrote: »

All of it, 10 minute DARTs, electrification, extra trains, etc. should have been 10 years ago.

Yeah but instead the FG idiot's butchered everything. They slashed funding because of the recession and forgot that infrastructure is not an expense but an investment that pays back in the long term. Then they idiotically cancelled the DU instead for a bloody metro which involves ripping up part of the LUAS line even though they could just build a spur off the Northern line to the airport for a fraction of the cost and maybe extend it to swords or that.....

Seriously things like that really irritate me...

marno21 · 11-09-2018 2:03am

Infini wrote: »

Yeah but instead the FG idiot's butchered everything. They slashed funding because of the recession and forgot that infrastructure is not an expense but an investment that pays back in the long term. Then they idiotically cancelled the DU instead for a bloody metro which involves ripping up part of the LUAS line even though they could just build a spur off the Northern line to the airport for a fraction of the cost and maybe extend it to swords or that.....

Seriously things like that really irritate me...

There is no Luas lines being ripped up. There is no capacity on the Northern line for a spur.

Re-educate yourself

marno21 · 11-09-2018 2:08am

bk wrote: »

Well the rumour has it that Irish Rail are currently preparing a tender for a large numbers of both EMU's (DARTs) and hybrid diesel-electric trains for commuter services.

I would assume that this isn't just replacing old DARTs, but a significant expansion too.

It does look like this new 10 minute schedule is workable in terms of scheduling and paths, which is great news. But if only they had more DART carriages and thus all 8 carriage trains, then it seems most of the above complaints would be resolved.

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

The only way the NTA are going to properly encourage long term investment in the DART system is by driving the entire system to breaking point to show just how limited it is

When we get to the stage that the DART system is overall constantly the focus of bad publicity there will be major investment

It's a sad system but it's the way things seem to go around here

Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

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