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BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Well, it will sound ridiculous, but that's just my perspective. I never took L54, L58, L59. But I see from my car L54 being nearly empty (1-5 passengers) at Ballyowen Park or Fonthill train station. Particularly weekends and weekdays after 7pm.

    When I'm around Celbridge, I often see L59 with same bizarre loads between M4 Business Park towards Leixlip. Especially weekends or even weekdays after 6pm.

    Never seen them packed, but it probably happens only mornings and perhaps 1pm to 3pm for school? Don't know about L58, but by looking on the map, it feels that P bus should be enough and L58 runs probably empty?

    Heard people complaining that they can't get C3 and C4 to Maynooth university from Lucan village as the buses come too full. I wonder why didn't they make C3 and C4 via N4 and could have extended L54 to Maynooth instead of going to Leixlip Convey. Same with 52, could have extended to Maynooth. This way 52 and L54 would had a lower frequency linking Lucan village to Maynooth, but could provide a better chance to get on a bus. It would be more functional. And Intel could have a P or X bus via N4.

    I also wonder, why Maynooth Meadowlink Road is not served. Looks like a big residential chunk of the town is left off without a service. Celbridge: also seem odd that the was no attempt to divert C4 via Clane Road and Shackleton Road to cover more residential areas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    Both the N4 and N6's frequencies were reduced a while ago, so it may still be possible...



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,499 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    The 52 is a bit mystifying, it’s a C-spine route in all but name, but separately numbered. The X25 is practically identical except it continues to Maynooth.

    The L59 did start off very quiet. It does very well now in the morning peak and also school times.

    A lot of the criticism in the area surrounds the lack of a direct service from Captains Hill to the city centre, even though there’s a fairly frequent train service. (“But the bus goes nearer!!!”).. Some see the existence of the L-series routes as being to blame, like it’s some sort of zero sum game. The “An Lar” mentality hasn’t gone away, there are a large chunk of people (not just in CIE by the way) who question why you would want to take a bus anywhere other than to within 5 minutes of O’Connell Bridge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Oh dear, I wouldn't have imagined that it's so bad. I admit, some of my works colleagues (coincidentally, most are Irish) who are living in the same place for many many years and yet don't know what buses pass their house nor where do they go. I told to one of them to take a train as it's quicker than a car and he's pleased using a train now (was driving to work for over 3 years). Another girl didn't know Pelletstown station is opened for quite some time already. Another one is very young and disgustingly lazy to walk to a train station for 1.5km so taking a car and then jumping in to the train.

    I think, we have this huge problem because of the parents spoiling kids bringing them to school. They grow up without thinking of any other commute option apart their car. It's ridiculous.

    However, I still think BC could looked better. We still have some underserved areas, particularty the North King St. But now I know the reason - some expect to be dropped at the OC bridge only.

    There's one more thing I want to mention that we are also disregarding a lot of immigrants who work in the industrial estates. They may have been less informed about the public consultations. Often people have to walk relatively long distances just to get out of these estates. Even residential estates are closed off without pedestrian paths at each of the ends. Why is that?!

    BS has a lot of goodies, but what is that for people who still have issues of walking around just to reach a bus stop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The 52 is not really that mystifying at all, when you understand the rationale.

    The concept of the spines, is that the spine routes combine to operate at integrated frequency along the common part of the Spine.

    There are four daytime spine routes on the C Spine, with midday frequencies on the C1 & C2 being each every 15 minutes, and the C3 and C4 every 30 minutes. That means notionally a bus every 7.5 minutes between Ringsend Garage and the flyover at Ballyowen Road.

    The 52 was added in the final iteration of BusConnects as people objected to the drop in service provision between Leixlip and the city (it was four buses an hour between the 66, 66a and 66b, but was proposed to drop to two per hour on the C3).

    However, a single hourly service such as the 52 cannot fit into the spine service pattern as above. So hence the 52 is an additional radial route along the Spine. It also offers the benefit of a dedicated service into Intel.

    The X25 is a purely peak hour service that replaces the old 66x and also operates to/from UCD or Leeson Street. Its function is to offer more seats at peak times along the C-Spine.

    One of the shortcomings of the scheduling of the local services was that the L54 could have been scheduled better between Captain's Hill and Ballyowen to maximise connectivity using the EUR 2 90 minute fare. It ought to have been scheduled from Captain's Hill in such a way to be five minutes ahead of the inbound C4 in Lucan Village, and likewise 5 minutes or a few more behind the outbound C4 at Lucan Village to offer additional connection between the city and Leixlip. But it isn't unfortunately, only at certain times which are by accident rather than design.

    Similarly the L58 isn't timed properly to connect into/out of the C3 at Leixlip.

    These sort of things matter when you're removing direct services to/from the city.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭halfpastneverr


    Was there a specific reason so many buses were canceled today due to no drivers being available? my once an hour route (69) was canceled this morning (very bad form on an hourly route) and then I had to head out to Templeogue this afternoon and one (15) was canceled leaving a 33 min gap at peak time!



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    That’s nothing new (on the 15 at least). The giveaway, as I’ve posted before here are the numbers of parked up buses on Eden Quay, where there’s been no driver available to cover the second half of the route.

    You’d expect perhaps two on the north side of Eden Quay for the 27a & 27b and the odd one on the river side for the 61 at any given time. For the past year, it’s been far more than that.

    My own experience is that it unfortunately seems to be getting worse of late, as I’m seeing buses displaying 14c, 15c and 27c most evenings terminating at Eden Quay, and long gaps such as you mentioned on at least one of the three routes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    The funny thing is that even in one of the other threads on boards.ie people are sharing experience of applying for GOI and DB jobs. A wait time is very long. Some don't pass interviews or medical examination, but get a job with a coach company etc. I have a feeling that DB is being still way too picky with staff and very slow providing training. It also looks that they are slow to even give the answer to the successful candidates... Hard to resist not blaming DB for missamanagement if any of this is true. We should be quick to react and respectful to the candidates.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,499 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    It’s a good thing it was added, and not questioning the need for the service at all - only it’s out-of-pattern numbering (instead of being C7, say). Amazingly enough up to a few years ago there was only a handful of peak time weekday only services to Easton and after that there was a brief iteration of a 66E that ran a handful of times a day, on weekdays only, the first one after 10am and the last one before 4pm. And god help you if you wanted a bus from Easton at the weekend (walk to Louisa Bridge/Intel. Not sure what the needs analysis on this was, because the 52 is often full at weekends by Leixlip village).. It’s a great service compared to what was there before, and it’s just a pity that locally it is the lack of a direct service from Captains Hill to the city that is being focussed on, even though there’s six buses an hour to Leixlip village and a better than hourly direct train service to the city.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    As I said the reason for the different numbering is that it cannot integrate into the C Spine schedule being only once an hour.

    The spine concept is based on the spine routes having an integrated schedule.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭TranslatorPS


    It's the same reasoning why the 6 isn't a Hx route, as its f-60 cannot be tied sensibly into the overall 8bph of the H Spine. Timings-wise, it's independent, the scheduler doesn't have to really care about aligning the 6 with the Hs.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Ah, that sounds familiar, it is a very "civil service" type attitude from the 80's (though I've seen it in the private sector too). You will be lucky if we decide to hire you and you can sit around waiting ages to hear from us!

    That might have worked back in the 70's and 80's with high unemployment and lots of folks being forced to migrate. It absolutely does not work when the economy is going so well and record low levels of unemployment with lots of competition for workers.

    HR/Recruitiment/Management seriously need to change their attitude from the idea that potential employees are competing (and lucky!) to work for you, to the idea that you are competing (versus other companies) to hire skilled people and retain them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Just to call out the inaccuracy about the Maynooth rail line times in your post. It is not correct to state that the service is hourly. For the best part of the day it is every 30 minutes, increasing to every 20 minutes in the peak. The hourly only kicks in late in the night. While there is more to do and bringing the DART to Maynooth will solve this, the rail service is not an hourly one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    I think it's too late to change the attitude of these people in the management. Most of those who aren't flexible to the market changes have to go and new people with fresh ideas should be let in. Why DB CEO does nothing about this?

    Perhaps, we should split DB into several companies. Or even NTA could take all the garages over from the DB and let more companies in the market to compete. DB from the inside doesn't seem very different from the public institutions which sucks. They should be enthusiastic and very vibrant.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,499 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    “Better than hourly”, I think I said...but if anything, that bolsters the point I made about Captains Hill continuing to have excellent direct connections to Dublin City centre post 66A.



  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭AX636


    When I went for medical in go ahead all it was, was a blood pressure check and pee in cup, on the other hand when I went for the DB one I had a prick test,blood pressure done, ecg, hearing test and a pee test oh and checked me BMI and eye test.. can't blame them for being strict in fairness



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    DB test is overkill. They should stick to the industry standards used within Europe. Being strict is good if it reasonable. But I can't say it is at this time. We need drivers even if they're deaf. Don't see a problem of hiring deaf person to be a driver, for instance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭john boye


    Off the top of my head I can think of several big problems with having a deaf driver.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭StreetLight




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Expecting high standards of drivers of PSO vehicles is something that we should not be criticising.

    This isn't any old job. It's a safety critical role.

    While I am frustrated by the levels of cancellations/curtailments right now, I would certainly hope that Dublin Bus keep entry standards at a high level.



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Other than ticket sales, inability to react to audible alarms and inability to hear the radio.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Please name a few as I'm very interested to know how major these would be. I believe, we could accommodate them. And not just because of equity in the work place, but also because we badly need people to drive buses. We have deaf cashiers in the supermarkets, why can't we have drivers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Of course I am real! Not sure what exactly you are so surprised about. My suggestion about deaf people, I suppose? Drivers are happily working in other European countries, but suddenly couldn't do the job here?! What this small country is so special about?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Why the UK has lower standards and it doesn't seem to be the problem there then? We have to loose those roles as there's no benefit of it. I see no sense to have rules much stricter within the DB in comparison to the GAI. It's the same job, after all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Ticket sales is the easiest to resolve: hand gestures (not the sign language ones, but the ones easy to understand. Long/short, adult/student... very easy. Many deaf people can read from lips no probs. A special badge and stickers for passenger to point for options). You can see these anywhere else in Europe. Why are we so stubborn to include disabled in our society here?

    Radio? No probs - can be adapted with a text message to the phone. Phone vibrates, bus driver stops at the closest bus stop. Small inconvenience, but equity and inclusion.

    Audible alarms is a design feature. This should have been thought through long ago! New buses should have been fit with visuals together with audios.

    So again, these little "problems" are only the excuses which can be easily overcome with smart decisions.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The first one is not a satisfactory solution and basically makes the drivers disability in to an embarrassing for them sideshow.

    The second one would cause the bus to stop every few minutes.

    The audible alarms are because visual ones get missed.

    These aren't little problems, they aren't excuses - they are exceedingly valid reasons that you are contrarily trying to dismiss.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Interesting point. My opinion is the opposite that it would rather be accommodating, not a show. I know a few deaf friends and they see no issues using such tools at their work, but in my home country so maybe this is a cultural thing (the way we interpret and think of the certain situations). I have an Irish deaf friend, will ask him what he thinks.

    Deaf people have a superb skill of attention to details. Similar to blind - sensitivity is higher to the surroundings. There's a huge chance visual wouldn't be missed. Japanese are one of the most accurate people culturally, and they have a special process in place for train drivers - they constantly check for any alerts and also point the finger to fixate that the task is done or something is checked (door, mirror, time, timetable, traffic signal etc.) as our human brain can sometimes think we have done something what hasn't been physically done - was just thought of. People with certain disabilities are different as they compensate disabilities replacing with abilities which makes them more aware and stronger at certain skills they evolve during the life.

    I still think that these are the excuses. But as I said, it could seem like that due to a different way of thinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭Tickityboo


    There is also the problem of emergency vehicles approaching junctions with their sirens on and the inability of the driver being able to hear it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    I have to apologise for your ignorance as this is a discriminatory comment. Deaf people have eyes and they actual can and do drive every day. This doesn't make a difference of driving a bus or a car in this regard. Except the number of people on board and extra duties as any other job has. Emergency vehicle drivers are trained to yield traffic when they have a red light, to slow down at the junctions and make sure everyone around is aware of them. This includes pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers around. As I already mentioned, disabled people compensate and have other skills. Deaf, for example, have a wider visibility range and a better awareness (why do we have a green light, but most traffic is still standing still? Pedestrian on the left suddenly stopped crossing. Some people turned to look at something). Even when streets are empty, our rules of the road suggest to look around before starting off at the green light. I could give many more examples of why deaf people are very good drivers, but don't want to be too much off the topic as I believe I already am. Just wanted to point out that DB are missing a lot of opportunities to hire drivers and that I have very little respect to them for this huge mismanagement.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,299 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I read from the Indo today that there was gridlock due to a scene of an accident in Arran Quay in Dublin this morning.

    There were delays of up to 45 minutes reported by the paper.

    There was also a crash near J7 southbound near the M50 off the N3/N4 roads in Lucan as well.

    I suspect the C & G buses along with the 60 were heavily delayed in town because of the accident in Arran Quay today.

    Having an hourly frequency makes the pain of waiting for the 60 even more unbearable for the passengers who were waiting to use it this morning.



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