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Rolex at retail prices

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 17 johnphillips


    Really interesting thread. It would be interesting to see what the breakdown of the 1m+ watches that they make is by model. That might allow some understanding of the extent they're able to shift the less desirable models by constraining supply on the steel sports ones (e.g. buy five of these and get the one you really want). Artificially constraining supply to allow the creation of a grey market where the sale of their watches to essentially offset the mark up on other jewelry/watches is an odd situation to be contributing to. I wouldn't think they're getting anything from that. Create scarcity, pump up demand, make their watches more desirable seems sound but then to not benefit from the grey market prices themselves doesn't make much sense. They could probably increase the prices of some of their watches by 50% and still sell everything they make.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭893bet


    I think far too much is made about Rolex constraining supply. It’s not the case IMO. They just never increased supply in tandem with the massive increase in demand. Two very different things.

    I sincerely doubt there has been a single year on the last 10 where they made fewer watches than the year before.

    There is no scarcity. None. Just a scarcity at RRP due to back door dealers and people that are willing to pay more than RRP.

    Let’s look at a few of last years releases.
    There are almost 300 of the new green sub on chrono24.
    There is 320 of the new date sub,
    200 of the no date sub.
    Them OP like candy crush....yup 400 of them ****ers up there.
    There are 500 ****ing ceramic Daytona’s up there. That’s just the ceramic black/white version. These cannot be gotten at RRP for love not money.


    When the new explorers 1 and 2 hit the shops c24 will be alive with them aswell.

    None of the above can be gotten at RRP. Except that can be. Just not by most people. I am lucky I am not a fan of Rolex design so it’s not a problem for my watch collecting goals (I would obviously buy any Rolex I could at RRP and flip for profit....and that is the problem).

    But the market is what it is. And as long as people instead buy the datejust to get the sub, or buy the tennis bracelet to get the sub, or pay 12k on the second market then it’s not going to change as too many people are getting rich.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭ec18


    on a semi related question, does this apply to all the luxury watches? for example if i went into weirs and tried to buy an omega would i get the same type of answer or is this a rolex/ patek thing #?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭893bet


    ec18 wrote: »
    on a semi related question, does this apply to all the luxury watches? for example if i went into weirs and tried to buy an omega would i get the same type of answer or is this a rolex/ patek thing #?

    On a very select few Omega you might.

    For the most part there would be no issue and you might get a discount even, though they seem to be less today anecdotally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,527 ✭✭✭Fitz II


    ec18 wrote: »
    on a semi related question, does this apply to all the luxury watches? for example if i went into weirs and tried to buy an omega would i get the same type of answer or is this a rolex/ patek thing #?

    Generally Omega is grand and if you want something they will have it and you can walk away with it. I have head of a small wait for new Speedmaster Moonwatches, I am waiting 6 months now for a silver snoopy but that is a production issue. Discounts are variable, depends on who you get. I have been told that discounting is over with omega

    Omega product the watches that are in demand, Rolex create demand for the watches they produce.

    I have been living the Rolex weirdness for years and it seems kinda normal to me, but when you write it down it sounds so peculiar.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭forumdedum


    Fitz II wrote: »
    Two questions here for the more knowledgeable members of the forum:

    1. How useful would a series of "lower end" purchases be towards getting a list-price Sub in the likes of Weirs? For example, if I was to buy the likes of a BB58, Tank Solo, Santos, Reverso, El Primero at reasonably regular intervals over a few years, would this be enough to get yourself bumped up the list or do you need to splash five figures a pop on precious metal ****e that they can't shift? I've no real problem in theory with establishing a purchase record so long as I could do it with pieces I actually wanted.

    Definatly, if you were looking for a sub or a GMT these sorts of purchases would go a long long long way, just make your intentions known and try to always deal with the same sales person.

    2. How difficult is it to get a Yacht-Master 40 in steel/platinum at the minute? I have seen the steel/rose one in the Weirs window on occasion, but never the blue steel/platinum one. It's a stunning piece. Was on the continent last year and saw them in practically every boutique so I presume the availability isn't at the SS Sub levels yet.

    They are harder to get than they were in the past for sure, but if you ask for one I am sure it would turn up eventually if you were a regular customer. They are not too bad on the gray market either only a small premium.

    I dream of owning a Rolex Sub. If I bought a lot of watches before that that would affect my ability to have enough money for the Sub. Out of my league so


  • Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭daingeanrob


    don't give up. i bought a sub date at list price from an ad approx 2 years ago. they are no longer a dealer. i never bought anything before or since from them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭forumdedum


    don't give up. i bought a sub date at list price from an ad approx 2 years ago. they are no longer a dealer. i never bought anything before or since from them.

    I hope you are enjoying. Great to hear


  • Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭daingeanrob


    i posted on this forum at the time. enjoying it for sure. definately no regrets but don't wear it every day like i thought i would.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭forumdedum


    i posted on this forum at the time. enjoying it for sure. definately no regrets but don't wear it every day like i thought i would.

    I haven't been on this part of the forum much. I'm not sure how often I would wear if I had one. Best looking watch there is imo


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  • Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭daingeanrob


    a classic. i am also tempted by a speedmaster pro, i have the automatic version but it doesn't get much wear, the pro moonwatch is iconic and classy as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,215 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Wibbs wrote: »
    While I struggle to think of another Swiss big watch brand that innovated less*, Rolex are without any shadow of a doubt the finest marketing machine of knowing what their customer base wants and have been since they were founded. They're one of the finest marketing outfit of any brand full stop. That is not easy to be and to be that good for that length of time.
    I think the only innovation that a lot of the buyers care about is that it has the word "Rolex" written on it.
    Fitz II wrote: »
    • High end cars
    • Hermes Bag
    • Gucci bags and Shoes
    • Limited edition trainers
    • High end gaming graphics cards
    • Desirable Property
    • Fine wines
    • Art
    • Certain concert and sporting event tickets

    Its actually super common in the luxury space, because you are selling something people dont need, they have to want it. And nothing creates want more than being told you cant have it.

    Don't need to go high end. Levi 501s were very popular in late 90's early 00's. Tesco sold them for cheap. Levis brought them to court and said the low price damaged their brand and they won.

    It used to be called "knacker tax" in ireland. Not "knacker" as in a traveller, more the tracksuit wearing variety. Just make something more expensive for the sake of it to make it seem exclusive. Grey Goose vodka is another example of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭ec18


    Cienciano wrote: »
    I think the only innovation that a lot of the buyers care about is that it has the word "Rolex" written on it.



    Don't need to go high end. Levi 501s were very popular in late 90's early 00's. Tesco sold them for cheap. Levis brought them to court and said the low price damaged their brand and they won.

    It used to be called "knacker tax" in ireland. Not "knacker" as in a traveller, more the tracksuit wearing variety. Just make something more expensive for the sake of it to make it seem exclusive. Grey Goose vodka is another example of it.
    add in ray bans to the list as well


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭Ri_Nollaig


    ec18 wrote: »
    add in ray bans to the list as well

    Add any number of brands to be honest!

    Rolex itself was meant to be a 'tool watch', rugged and used for a purpose like diving. Getting it scratched and banged up was seen as normal and what created their name.
    But it was a bit different when you could get a Submariner for roughly a months salary for the average worker (and had no issue getting one) compared to now.
    The true modern equivalent is probably something like a high end g-shocks, the mudmasters etc.
    They are just fancy jewellery now

    This is just marketing 101 really. You create a brand from years of creating a desirable well received product. But even after economics of scale mean you can probably create the same thing for a fraction of the cost as before, you do everything to not cheapen the brand.

    Look at the motor industry, you have Groups like VW who own several different brands to allow them to compete in different markets without damaging their image.
    What is really the difference between say a Seat Leon, VW Golf or an Audi A3? Sure the latter might have a higher spec etc but not that much better compared to the Leon for the cost difference.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Ri_Nollaig wrote: »
    Rolex itself was meant to be a 'tool watch', rugged and used for a purpose like diving. Getting it scratched and banged up was seen as normal and what created their name.
    Well kinda, but not really either Ri. That's more of their marketing stuff really. Rolex was always an aspirational "suburban" brand aimed originally at middle class British people. That was its focus way more than Omega, Longines and the other mid tier Swiss brands who had much wider market focuses and markets. High tier stuff like AP and Patek weren't even on the radar of 99% of the buying public. Rolex was more anglophile than Swiss in nature anyway. It wasn't until the late 1950's it spread beyond that. James Bond wore one in the books, because the English author wore one. An American author of the same time writing an American secret agent almost certainly wouldn't have. When the films came out and the watch was featured it was focused on precisely because it was unusual for an average office joe man to wear such a watch and marked the character out as subtly different. It's used as a plot device. Something we'd miss today because of how the market and perceptions have changed. I don't know what the modern equivalent would even be? Maybe a normal looking chap wearing a dive computer in the office?

    Tool watches themselves as a fashion thing are a relatively recent phenomenon. I say recent in the sense it was the 70's before they started to be seen as casual wear and really seen that way in the last 20 or so years(Rolex helped pioneer that with their advertising campaigns in the 70's). Before that they were rarely enough seen on the wrists of people who didn't use them for their actual trade or leisure pursuit. The vast majority of men wanting a "good watch" chose a dress type in gold or gold plate of the fashion of the day and bought them from jewellery shops. EG the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms which was the template for all the dive watches that followed originally wasn't sold through jewellers but through dive shops and sports outlets. It didn't really occur to them to sell them as everyday watches until the French company LIP who supported them started selling them through their extensive dealership network. Even then they don't seem to have been big sellers judging by the numbers of the early series that survive.

    The "wear the tool watch of rugged men while striding through your office like a colossus" pretty much only happened thrice; first after WW1 when the companies were left with large stocks of the new fangled wristwatch to sell, so set their appeal as sports watches worn by racecar drivers and aviators and then in the 1970's, where explorers and divers were the thing. Then after the digital crisis when mechanical Swiss watches came back into play. Even so I'd bet the farm that Rolex sold far more datejusts and the like than Subs in the 1980's. Today I'd reckon of us all in here the majority of watches we own would fit into the toolwatch category.

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