Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Locke_Lamora · 07-05-2021 10:29pm

Post-mortem:

Pack was dreadful as per usual - very little pace or power and we struggle to win the breakdown area or come off the better side in tackles. We're toothless in attack post-coetzee so I hope the lot of us are praying to whatever god we believe in that Nakarawa is a different player on arrival. The young backrowers were passengers in that game, but I thought Reid went well enough coming on. Think he's ready for more minutes next year if his scrum holds up.

Backs were bad in defence as well, Addison going off made everything more difficult but McCloskey is too flat footed, bites in far too easily and doesn't have the pace to cover. Teams with better players than Munster will target him and force him to make decisions all game, if Stewart Moore becomes an average defender I'd love to see more of him. My god I just realised how much I miss Luke Marshall shooting out of the line heroically to save my night and McCloskey's reputation. I'm a believer in Lowry but he had a shocker. Not going to complain too much about Addison - it happens - I'll just say I'm glad to see he has a bit of bite about him still and leave it at that. Stockdale, my beautiful boy, a shining light on an otherwise depressing friday night. Well, he wasn't that good but he wasn't bad, which is positive. Sort of.

Jump_In_Jack · 07-05-2021 10:38pm

Marcus Rea won a few penalties at the breakdown, though he had a decent game.

stephen_n · 07-05-2021 10:39pm

awec wrote: »

The league must realise how bad this looks at this point. It's so amateurish looking, literally making it up as they go along.

Playing this tournament has been a huge mistake.

What would you expect them to do? Tell the TV companies sorry we promised you games but we are just not going to bother now soz. Is it ok if we keep the money? Mmkay sure, no problem, Covid hey. It’s an absolutely ridiculous comment to say playing the tournament was a huge mistake.

launish116 · 07-05-2021 10:57pm

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Marcus Rea won a few penalties at the breakdown, though he had a decent game.

He did, though lack of game time showed! He was blowing out of his arse! Still looks a little under powered.

Was always going to be a tough task for McCann with that starting back row.

Reid looks a prospect though, plenty of carriers & contact.

Biggest surprise being Shanahan, so different when he isn’t slowing the game down to box kick.

Ultimately same issues arising, lack of up front muscle.

Utah_Saint · 07-05-2021 11:31pm

We are in big trouble next year. We lost Coetzee and not replacing him. As promising as McCann is he's not the Messiah for our forwards.
Thankfully most of the teams in the pro14 are mince to hide our failings

bilston · 08-05-2021 12:27am

As far as the young lads were concerned...

Personally I thought McCann was as good as could be expected in that first half. I was surprised he was taken off, but then we needed Timoney's experience.

Reid did well off the bench, although we didn't see many scrums, but he is exactly what we are crying out for in the loose.

Lowry had a poor game, and was mercilessly targeted by Munster.

McIlroy didn't really get into the game

Rea missed a few tackles on Coombes (this guy is destined for a big career in red and green) early on but grew into the game quite well as he adapted to the pace. He needs more gametime...simple as that.

Of the rest it was pretty poor. Lyttle did his best, Timoney did well off the bench and Henderson fought hard, but it was a really disappointing night.

I think we just need the season to end at this stage!

Also the captains challenge is a nonsense. Both challenges may well have led to penalties, but they were soft. Do we need to be stopping the game for two minutes for stuff like that?

No complaints on the red for Addison though.

That was a sobering night. It's hard to know where we go from here.

Dubinusa · 08-05-2021 12:28am

Maybe the "Wizard of Iz" steps up next year? It's not all doom and gloom. Rea got a shot as did Reid and McCann. Lowry probably is a fb. It's a nothing event .

bilston · 08-05-2021 12:28am

launish116 wrote: »

Biggest surprise being Shanahan, so different when he isn’t slowing the game down to box kick.

Back up 9 to Cooney is a serious problem.

bilston · 08-05-2021 12:31am

stephen_n wrote: »

What would you expect them to do? Tell the TV companies sorry we promised you games but we are just not going to bother now soz. Is it ok if we keep the money? Mmkay sure, no problem, Covid hey. It’s an absolutely ridiculous comment to say playing the tournament was a huge mistake.

It is a ridiculous set up though and should be treated with the disrespect it deserves. I assume that's what Ulster are doing anyway...

UAEguy2020 · 08-05-2021 1:58am

One issue I have with the captains challenge, specifically with the Moore incident, is what can you do if there is nothing in it but technically it’s a penalty? I don’t think they would have given that Moore penalty if the TMO was the one searching for it but in this case if a penalty isn’t given O’Mahony loses his referral which isn’t right considering it technically is a penalty when reffed to the letter of the law.

launish116 · 08-05-2021 9:55am

bilston wrote: »

Rea missed a few tackles on Coombes (this guy is destined for a big career in red and green) early on but grew into the game quite well as he adapted to the pace. He needs more gametime...simple as that.

What I would do to have someone like Coombes for Ulster right now!

Utah_Saint · 08-05-2021 10:36am

launish116 wrote: »

What I would do to have someone like Coombes for Ulster right now!

Yep, but we're too busy producing backs.

At some point we have to ask the question why a team like Ulster have not produced a quality forward since Henderson. It's shocking really.

stephen_n · 08-05-2021 11:09am

bilston wrote: »

It is a ridiculous set up though and should be treated with the disrespect it deserves. I assume that's what Ulster are doing anyway...

I fully agree, it’s pointless without the SA teams. They couldn’t just scrap it though. Money drives the sport, especially TV money. It’s unfortunate that the UK started to take border integrity for Covid seriously, at exactly the wrong time.

I am surprised that Nucifora isn’t moving hell and earth to get Deegan to Ulster. With Conan back he is now 3rd choice and he is way to good for that.

launish116 · 08-05-2021 12:30pm

Ulster need more than a few Leinster 3rds, it almost criminal not reinforcing our pack with the current back line talent.

We don’t need one marque signing, we need 2-3 seasoned forwards.

We currently have the right coach with the wrong players! By the time we get the right players the daggers be out for Dan.

awec · 08-05-2021 12:31pm

stephen_n wrote: »

I fully agree, it’s pointless without the SA teams. They couldn’t just scrap it though. Money drives the sport, especially TV money. It’s unfortunate that the UK started to take border integrity for Covid seriously, at exactly the wrong time.

I am surprised that Nucifora isn’t moving hell and earth to get Deegan to Ulster. With Conan back he is now 3rd choice and he is way to good for that.

We have enough Leinster cast offs already. We will never improve by signing guys who cannot get into the Leinster team.

thomond2006 · 08-05-2021 1:05pm

Are there any prospects in the front row coming through at Ulster? There's been a lack of talent there in recent years. Meanwhile Ulster have young outside backs galore.

Utah_Saint · 08-05-2021 1:10pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are there any prospects in the front row coming through at Ulster? There's been a lack of talent there in recent years. Meanwhile Ulster have young outside backs galore.

Reid who was playing and Tom Stewart at hooker.

Add McCann who is a back-row and that's the grand total of ALL our forward talent for the foreseeable.

thomond2006 · 08-05-2021 1:10pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Reid who was playing and Tom Stewart at hooker.

Add McCann who is a back-row and that's the grand total of ALL our forward talent for the foreseeable.

Lyttle to TH!

launish116 · 08-05-2021 1:12pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are there any prospects in the front row coming through at Ulster? There's been a lack of talent there in recent years. Meanwhile Ulster have young outside backs galore.

Taken from UAFC, Currently in the system, trained with U20s recently.

Oscar Egan (QUB RFC) Tighthead prop (ear marked as big potential)
Conor McKee (QUB RFC) Scrum half
George Saunderson (QUB RFC) Loosheid prop (recently national talent squad)
James McCormick (Ballymena RFC) Hooker
Lorcan McLaughlin (QUB RFC) no8./exile
James Humphreys (QUB RFC) Outhalf
Harry Sheridan (DUFC) Lock/blindside flanker

Currently only hookers in academy I think.

Utah_Saint · 08-05-2021 1:23pm

We've had a long list of 'promising' forwards join the academy over the past 10years. Although something alway seems to happen and they never make it.

awec · 08-05-2021 1:27pm

bilston wrote: »

As far as the young lads were concerned...

Personally I thought McCann was as good as could be expected in that first half. I was surprised he was taken off, but then we needed Timoney's experience.

Reid did well off the bench, although we didn't see many scrums, but he is exactly what we are crying out for in the loose.

Lowry had a poor game, and was mercilessly targeted by Munster.

McIlroy didn't really get into the game

Rea missed a few tackles on Coombes (this guy is destined for a big career in red and green) early on but grew into the game quite well as he adapted to the pace. He needs more gametime...simple as that.

Of the rest it was pretty poor. Lyttle did his best, Timoney did well off the bench and Henderson fought hard, but it was a really disappointing night.

I think we just need the season to end at this stage!

Also the captains challenge is a nonsense. Both challenges may well have led to penalties, but they were soft. Do we need to be stopping the game for two minutes for stuff like that?

No complaints on the red for Addison though.

That was a sobering night. It's hard to know where we go from here.

We just continue with the status quo. Finish in the prowhatever playoff spots cause the standard is crap, maybe make the odd final, get to the QFs in Europe if we do well. That's about the height of it.

I think the sobering night was against Leicester. I am not going to read too much into last night as it wasn't that important and that showed in the team's attitude.

bilston · 08-05-2021 1:43pm

stephen_n wrote: »

I am surprised that Nucifora isn’t moving hell and earth to get Deegan to Ulster. With Conan back he is now 3rd choice and he is way to good for that.

Totally agree, he is young enough to have the drive which is what Ulster need. Personally I think it would be a good move for both parties, but obviously he has to want to move himself, but between Doris and Conan you'd think Leinster have 8 covered for the next few years.

bilston · 08-05-2021 1:46pm

awec wrote: »

We have enough Leinster cast offs already. We will never improve by signing guys who cannot get into the Leinster team.

I agree with the general point, but personally I think Deegan is a different case. He is at the start of his career (relatively speaking) and he is a level above the likes of O'Connor, Shanahan and even Timoney, but unlike Murphy, McGrath, Madigan and Moore has it all to do still.

bilston · 08-05-2021 1:48pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are there any prospects in the front row coming through at Ulster? There's been a lack of talent there in recent years. Meanwhile Ulster have young outside backs galore.

Callum Reid, Tom Stewart and Tom O'Toole.

Reid is brilliant in the loose, O'Toole is still developing in the scrum, Stewart is probably the best young hooker I've seen at U20 level for Ireland in a long time, and he was a year young.

So in theory those guys could do well in the future. But we need a Coombes type back rower, McCann has a big future, but he is a different sort of player to Coombes, we need a bruising ball carrying 6 or 8. I don't see anyone coming through like that.

Dubinusa · 08-05-2021 1:51pm

bilston wrote: »

Totally agree, he is young enough to have the drive which is what Ulster need. Personally I think it would be a good move for both parties, but obviously he has to want to move himself, but between Doris and Conan you'd think Leinster have 8 covered for the next few years.

I think it would be a good move for Deegan. He's a quality player and is only mid 20's. I don't think Ulster are weak or soft in the pack. It's just the depth isn't as good as it should be. I think if a healthy Jack McGrath was available and another international quality lock was in the squad, I reckon Ulster would be better.

bilston · 08-05-2021 1:53pm

launish116 wrote: »

Taken from UAFC, Currently in the system, trained with U20s recently.

Oscar Egan (QUB RFC) Tighthead prop (ear marked as big potential)
Conor McKee (QUB RFC) Scrum half
George Saunderson (QUB RFC) Loosheid prop (recently national talent squad)
James McCormick (Ballymena RFC) Hooker
Lorcan McLaughlin (QUB RFC) no8./exile
James Humphreys (QUB RFC) Outhalf
Harry Sheridan (DUFC) Lock/blindside flanker

Currently only hookers in academy I think.

I read somewhere that Egan is highly rated, but never seen him play, not that I could tell who a good scrummaging prop is anyway!

Harry Sheridan looked good in that A game against Leinster earlier in the year.

There's also Reuben Crothers who is a 7 and Jude Postelwaite who is a wing/centre, plus Ben Moxham and Ben Carson (both centres), all who would be U20, and of course Tom Stewart. I'm surprised those guys aren't in that group above, Stewart probably has a decent shout at captaining the Ireland 20s. I assume they injured or maybe training with Ulster as I'd thought anyone in a provincial academy was almost a shoe in for the Ireland 20s squad?

You always know Ulster are having a rough time when we start looking at who the next big thing is!!

launish116 · 08-05-2021 2:18pm

bilston wrote: »

I read somewhere that Egan is highly rated, but never seen him play, not that I could tell who a good scrummaging prop is anyway!

Harry Sheridan looked good in that A game against Leinster earlier in the year.

There's also Reuben Crothers who is a 7 and Jude Postelwaite who is a wing/centre, plus Ben Moxham and Ben Carson (both centres), all who would be U20, and of course Tom Stewart. I'm surprised those guys aren't in that group above, Stewart probably has a decent shout at captaining the Ireland 20s. I assume they injured or maybe training with Ulster as I'd thought anyone in a provincial academy was almost a shoe in for the Ireland 20s squad?

You always know Ulster are having a rough time when we start looking at who the next big thing is!!

Feels like we’re always looking for the next big thing, that always seems several years down the line.

Stewart has been appearing in a lot of the recent training videos. Also noticed Carothers in clips also.

John McKee is a name not being mentioned but was on media duty with the U20s months back. Has our academy head coach position been filled?

Utah_Saint · 08-05-2021 3:30pm

launish116 wrote: »

Feels like we’re always looking for the next big thing, that always seems several years down the line.

Stewart has been appearing in a lot of the recent training videos. Also noticed Carothers in clips also.

John McKee is a name not being mentioned but was on media duty with the U20s months back. Has our academy head coach position been filled?

As an Ulster fan I feel like I'm in a perpetual state of looking to the future.

bilston · 08-05-2021 3:40pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

As an Ulster fan I feel like I'm in a perpetual state of looking to the future.

I remember being on another MB getting excited about Stephen Ferris, Gareth Steenson, Andrew Trimble and Tommy Bowe coming through! That was probably about 17 years ago. To be fair we did win the CL in 2006 when those guys first emerged, but nothing since.

Utah_Saint · 08-05-2021 4:53pm

bilston wrote: »

I remember being on another MB getting excited about Stephen Ferris, Gareth Steenson, Andrew Trimble and Tommy Bowe coming through! That was probably about 17 years ago. To be fair we did win the CL in 2006 when those guys first emerged, but nothing since.

How I wish for another Ferris to come through

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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