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Trevor Deely case - new witness

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    #32
    Stevieluvsye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Oh right, thought they were Crumlin/Walkinstown.

    That's why they were called The Westies ;)


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    #33
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Indeed. I never personally had any trouble but was certainly asked 'lookin for business love?' on plenty of occasions. Now that I think of it the mate I was on the session with that time we rounded the night off with kebabs was mugged on his way home from work another time.

    Ok. Interesting. I didn’t realise that area was like that then.

    Would they and their minders have been “at work” on a wet windy night in early December at 3/4am?


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    #34
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Bit strange this is reported all of a sudden coinciding around the time of year of his disappearance.

    I’d be cautious on this.
    Journalists go fishing for information around this time of year before they write a short piece about the anniversary of Trevor's disappearance.

    The Gardai probably aren't going to journalists with every new piece of evidence; that is, they may have been working on this lead for the last six months.

    That said, anniversaries also tend to focus the mind. Someone who knows something might be able to push it to the back of their mind for the rest of the year, but the anniversary brings it back, and sometimes people just crack and come forward.

    I'd be amazed if anything definite ever comes of this, especially a conviction, but I would really hope for the Deely family that they can at least know what happened.


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    #35
    farmchoice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Ok. Interesting. I didn’t realise that area was like that then.

    Would they and their minders have been “at work” on a wet windy night in early December at 3/4am?


    by and large they were bad cases, junkies and the like so there were always a few around even that late but sure enough there would not have been many left at that time.

    but it was more then the prostitutes. i used to walk from mount st to baggot st very regularly at night(along the canal) and often enough i would have cause to walk as far as rathmines and you would meet some strange characters just hanging around mooching behind trees etc.

    now having said that i never had any hassle but there was always menace in the air around there late at night back then.
    mind you that could have been said for a lot of the city then compared to now.


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    #36
    jay1988
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭jay1988


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Ok. Interesting. I didn’t realise that area was like that then.

    Would they and their minders have been “at work” on a wet windy night in early December at 3/4am?

    Xmas party season in full swing, most definitely.

    I worked around the area for a few years up until 2016, it was still like that at night then. Really weird vibe off the place after 11 o'clock or so.


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    #37
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Ok. Interesting. I didn’t realise that area was like that then.

    Would they and their minders have been “at work” on a wet windy night in early December at 3/4am?
    Well consider the time of year and all the corporate parties. I think they were in the late bar Trevor was attending, and that the poor guy inadvertently said/did/heard/saw something that they didn't like, so he was followed later on.


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    #38
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,526 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    seamus wrote: »
    That said, anniversaries also tend to focus the mind. Someone who knows something might be able to push it to the back of their mind for the rest of the year, but the anniversary brings it back, and sometimes people just crack and come forward.

    What’s bothered me since the “cleaned up” footage was released is that they never mentioned how a man waited 30-40 minutes until Trevor Deely passes by and then he follows him around to the gate. All that was said was that he spoke with someone.

    Even before that new footage they had the original of that guy looking in through the gate. Another bank worker goes in at this time while another waits for him. Just seemed like a lot of detail that was left out if they were trying to “jog” memories.

    I remember that night because of the taxi strike and the fact I had to get a lift home from the boyfriend of a colleague I was “seeing” at the time. I wasn’t near that area of town but someone else might remember something strange if they were provided with a full description of what was known.

    It was also stated at the time that Trevor Deely was supposed to meet a man and woman when he left the office but that wasn’t mentioned again.

    Also, out of curiosity, does anyone know why the footage of the “person of interest” following Trevor on the Baggot St footage is never shown at normal speed, it’s always shown “sped up”?

    Would be great if this case was finally solved.

    The tide is turning…



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    #39
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,004 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    The last thread was locked and deleted for good reason, it had really jumped the shark.

    This week the body of a man missing from Dublin for 36 years was formally identified as being in a unknown grave in Wales.

    In the last year or so two other people that were buried as unknown in Wales after being washed up have been identified.

    Obviously this is all due to DNA matching.

    To the best of my knowledge the Deely family have no submitted DNA to the investigation, for the obvious reason that they believe that Trevor is still alive.

    There is a possibility that Trevor's body is in the grave of an unknown in Wales, but that cannot be clarified without DNA.


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    #40
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Ok. Interesting. I didn’t realise that area was like that then.

    Would they and their minders have been “at work” on a wet windy night in early December at 3/4am?

    Don't see why not. In spite of the weather, there were plenty of people out that night, as can been seen in the CCTV footage.


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    #41
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    begbysback wrote: »
    There’s a type of prostitute you would take home to your mother?

    Figure of speech. But let's move on from that rather facetious comment of mine, we don't want another of these threads locked.


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    #42
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,153 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Figure of speech. But let's move on from that rather facetious comment of mine, we don't want another of these threads locked.

    To be clear there is no figure of speech relating to bringing hookers back to your mother


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    #43
    20Wheel
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Dodge wrote: »
    To be clear there is no figure of speech relating to bringing hookers back to your mother

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



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    #44
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    I'll tell you guys something else, and this only just occured to me. I myself worked in banking at the time Trevor disappeared, not for BOI but another institution, and due to the nature of my role I had professional reasons to have contacts with the CAB. And I recall distinctly being made aware due to those contacts that a premises on Leeson Street a few doors up from the pub the Leeson Lounge which traded as a B&B was in reality a knocking shop. I am just making the point that that whole area had a kind of shabby genteel aspect to it, and while largely wealthy and respectable on the surface there was a lot of seediness going on underneath. Note, I am not trying to imply Trevor frequented such establishments, there is no evidence for that, I am just saying I do give credence to the theory that he had a chance encounter with a criminal which ended badly. And more importantly, apparently the AGS also do. I long assumed that he had accidentally fallen into the canal and drowned, but the other theory is just as plausible at this point.


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    #45
    20Wheel
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    I'll tell you guys something else, and this only just occured to me. I myself worked in banking at the time Trevor disappeared, not for BOI but another institution, and due to the nature of my role I had professional reasons to have contacts with the CAB. And I recall distinctly being made aware due to those contacts that a premises on Leeson Street a few doors up from the pub the Leeson Lounge which traded as a B&B was in reality a knocking shop. I am just making the point that that whole area had a kind of shabby genteel aspect to it, and while largely wealthy and respectable on the surface there was a lot of seediness going on underneath. Note, I am not trying to imply Trevor frequented such establishments, there is no evidence for that, I am just saying I do give credence to the theory that he had a chance encounter with a criminal which ended badly. And more importantly, apparently the AGS also do. I long assumed that he had accidentally fallen into the canal and drowned, but the other theory is just as plausible at this point.


    Know of any on Haddington Rd?

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



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    #46
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    What’s bothered me since the “cleaned up” footage was released is that they never mentioned how a man waited 30-40 minutes until Trevor Deely passes by and then he follows him around to the gate. All that was said was that he spoke with someone.

    Even before that new footage they had the original of that guy looking in through the gate. Another bank worker goes in at this time while another waits for him. Just seemed like a lot of detail that was left out if they were trying to “jog” memories.

    I remember that night because of the taxi strike and the fact I had to get a lift home from the boyfriend of a colleague I was “seeing” at the time. I wasn’t near that area of town but someone else might remember something strange if they were provided with a full description of what was known.

    It was also stated at the time that Trevor Deely was supposed to meet a man and woman when he left the office but that wasn’t mentioned again.

    Also, out of curiosity, does anyone know why the footage of the “person of interest” following Trevor on the Baggot St footage is never shown at normal speed, it’s always shown “sped up”?

    Would be great if this case was finally solved.
    Probably just the way the security camera was. I don't see why there are grounds for believing that the guy behind him by the Haddington Road ATM was following him. And his build is totally different to the guy who was waiting at the bank gate for half an hour, whom I think must have been following him.


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    #47
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    20Wheel wrote: »
    Know of any on Haddington Rd?

    I don't. The ones on Haddington Rd I think are genuine - bear in mind plenty of demand due to rugby/soccer/music fans coming over - Aviva Stadium, RDS and Donnybrook ground all in the locality.

    The Leeson St knocking shop I think (I'm relying on memory here, could be wrong) had a connection to Marie Bridgman. I'm 100% certain that there was a knocking shop posing as a B&B on Leeson St in or about May - December 2000, I just can't recall who the owners were. I was an MLRO with a bank so I had visibility of info most people wouldn't have. Not boasting or name-dropping, that's just how it was.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/midnight-on-baggot-street-every-girl-in-the-sex-trade-has-a-story-but-men-never-ask-30567428.html

    Incidentally a well-known lap dancing joint in the, let's just say general D2 area, is owned by a notoriously dodgy individual who has a conviction for manslaughter.


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    #48
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    I was tipped off from another source (not CAB) that a female and then under-age member of a well-known crime family surname six letters, was basically being hired out by her own family to foreign paedophiles. Burlington Hotel was mentioned. Wealth Swiss doctor was allegedly party to it. The file allegedly was passed back and forth between AGS and DPP for years and then eventually 'no further action', I was told.

    People will probably think I'm bull****ting, but I'm not.


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    #49
    farmchoice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    going off topic here but there was a well known knocking shop on baggot st, the fella who ran it was a real wide boy, but not a dangerous type, you would see him in the tesco there on baggot st going around with trolly pilled high with toilet paper, wet wipes etc with a couple of bedraggled whores trailing along behind him he was blatant about it and got done afterwards and was in the papers.
    the first generation of lap dancing joints on lesson st were rough and ready and were little more than knocking shops, the door staff were proper hard men too. there was one we used to frequent i cant recall the name now, not angels, it was up the street a bit further i think, it was some craic but i saw a good few ''patrons'' getting a few fairly serious clips off the door men as they were escorted off the premises.


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    #50
    Stevieluvsye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    farmchoice wrote: »
    going off topic here but there was a well known knocking shop on baggot st, the fella who ran it was a real wide boy, but not a dangerous type, you would see him in the tesco there on baggot st going around with trolly pilled high with toilet paper, wet wipes etc with a couple of bedraggled whores trailing along behind him he was blatant about it and got done afterwards and was in the papers.
    the first generation of lap dancing joints on lesson st were rough and ready and were little more than knocking shops, the door staff were proper hard men too. there was one we used to frequent i cant recall the name now, not angels, it was up the street a bit further i think, it was some craic but i saw a good few ''patrons'' getting a few fairly serious clips off the door men as they were escorted off the premises.

    Must have been strings. They were the only two on Leeson street


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    #51
    farmchoice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    Stevieluvsye wrote: »
    Must have been strings. They were the only two on Leeson street
    ya that was it i think.


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    #52
    farmchoice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sex-industry-links-with-russian-mafia-prompted-lap-dance-raids-26232203.html


    these were the charming people who ran it.


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    #53
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    farmchoice wrote: »
    going off topic here but there was a well known knocking shop on baggot st, the fella who ran it was a real wide boy, but not a dangerous type, you would see him in the tesco there on baggot st going around with trolly pilled high with toilet paper, wet wipes etc with a couple of bedraggled whores trailing along behind him he was blatant about it and got done afterwards and was in the papers.
    the first generation of lap dancing joints on lesson st were rough and ready and were little more than knocking shops, the door staff were proper hard men too. there was one we used to frequent i cant recall the name now, not angels, it was up the street a bit further i think, it was some craic but i saw a good few ''patrons'' getting a few fairly serious clips off the door men as they were escorted off the premises.

    Someone told me he saw an old fella get his head kicked in by the bouncers at one of those joints, I'm talking early 2000s. They cleaned up their act later on I believe.

    John Cullen is the fella I was thinking of. Lovely bloke, rough diamond, salt of the earth, etc. I am being sarcastic of course. He's a scumbag. I misremembered as regards a manslaughter case, he's a convicted multiple murderer of three.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sex-industry-links-with-russian-mafia-prompted-lap-dance-raids-26232203.html


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    #54
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Tbh, I think the "unfortunate encounter with the wrong people" theory has been around pretty as long as he's been missing.

    Murder isn't a common or throwaway thing, even in gangland circles. When something happens, they do talk about it amongst themselves, they spread gossip and rumours. This comes back to the Gardai, so they get some kind of picture of what's happened.

    The hard part is turning gossip into statements.


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    #55
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,526 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Probably just the way the security camera was. I don't see why there are grounds for believing that the guy behind him by the Haddington Road ATM was following him. And his build is totally different to the guy who was waiting at the bank gate for half an hour, whom I think must have been following him.

    Yeah, just weird they couldn’t fix it so it went in “real time”. Especially considering how much they pushed that footage.

    I don’t remember the “waiting” guy getting any mention other than ‘Trevor had a brief conversation with someone at the gate’. They never said that the guy waits at the door for a considerable length of time, looks to take a phone call, looks out on the footpath, ducks back in, Trevor passes and then the guy moves to follow him around where they appear to have words at the gate.

    The guy then waits there for a bit, two bank workers arrive, one goes in, one waits and after they head off the guy eventually leaves. Was that not considered “suspicious” enough to look into?

    Not sure where the link between the guy waiting and the lad on camera with the “distinct gait” came from. Hard to tell what way he walks in that, weirdly, “sped up” footage.

    The tide is turning…



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    #56
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    farmchoice wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sex-industry-links-with-russian-mafia-prompted-lap-dance-raids-26232203.html


    these were the charming people who ran it.

    Yeah. She was still involved as recently as 2014, according to a source.


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    #57
    Stevieluvsye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    seamus wrote: »
    Tbh, I think the "unfortunate encounter with the wrong people" theory has been around pretty as long as he's been missing.

    Murder isn't a common or throwaway thing, even in gangland circles. When something happens, they do talk about it amongst themselves, they spread gossip and rumours. This comes back to the Gardai, so they get some kind of picture of what's happened.

    The hard part is turning gossip into statements.

    Well it was the sister of the fella i mentioned earlier that provided the info to Gardai of who was involved directly, of course she'd never testify in court


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    #58
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    I'm always very cautious about Gardai or any police saying "we know who did it but can't / have yet to prove it." Like it or not the decision about guilt rests with courts. It can be too easy for the claim to be made and it elevates police to a role they don't have and shouldn't have.

    That said, I believe this news is more to do with the gardai timing this for an anniversary to see will it knock anything else out of the tree. Wait and see.

    The brilliant initiative of DNA checking with unidentified bodies in Wales / Scotland can't be praised enough. I'd go so far as to say that in missing persons' cases of say over a year that DNA samples from closest relatives should be mandatory. I can see no good reason for a refusal; I can see emotional ones but those have to play second fiddle to the reality of improving chances of closing a case, establishing if remains can indicate foul play etc and using scarce police resources effectively.

    I don't know if an older thread was closed at anyone's request. It would be unusual in the wider world if we all got to stop discussion of things we found uncomfortable.


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    #59
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    I'm always very cautious about Gardai or any police saying "we know who did it but can't / have yet to prove it." Like it or not the decision about guilt rests with courts. It can be too easy for the claim to be made and it elevates police to a role they don't have and shouldn't have.
    This is kind of aside, but an interesting note I heard this week is that in the Garda PULSE system, a crime is considered "solved", when a suspect(s) has been formally charged

    On the face of it this seems silly. Until someone is found guilty, then a crime isn't solved. But from a statistical point of view, the Gardai can't operate on this basis or they'd have thousands of cases sitting open and "unsolved", even though the problem is that the person who did it wasn't found guilty.

    So it seems rational that from the Gardai's point of view, the outcome of a court case is somewhat secondary. Their goal is to gather evidence and then form an opinion about who did it. It's the DPP's job to prove it.

    So the Gardai are always going to say (internally) that someone did it, regardless of whether the person has been found guilty of a crime. They couldn't operate effectively otherwise.


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    #60
    farmchoice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    I'm always very cautious about Gardai or any police saying "we know who did it but can't / have yet to prove it." Like it or not the decision about guilt rests with courts. It can be too easy for the claim to be made and it elevates police to a role they don't have and shouldn't have.

    That said, I believe this news is more to do with the gardai timing this for an anniversary to see will it knock anything else out of the tree. Wait and see.

    The brilliant initiative of DNA checking with unidentified bodies in Wales / Scotland can't be praised enough. I'd go so far as to say that in missing persons' cases of say over a year that DNA samples from closest relatives should be mandatory. I can see no good reason for a refusal; I can see emotional ones but those have to play second fiddle to the reality of improving chances of closing a case, establishing if remains can indicate foul play etc and using scarce police resources effectively.

    I don't know if an older thread was closed at anyone's request. It would be unusual in the wider world if we all got to stop discussion of things we found uncomfortable.
    if i recall correctly the other thread descended into crazy argument about things that were not true.
    people were posting fairly out there theories and others were then discussing them as if they they were fact.


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    #61
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,526 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Berserker5 wrote: »
    They'd likely have information if it was him, wasn't a BIL a witness in the case

    He was painted as not a credible witness due to his drug addiction and dodgy past.

    Was shocking that the scumbag got away with it.

    The tide is turning…



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