Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
27-06-2012, 21:54   #31
Micilin Muc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gael View Post

It's definitely spelt 'difear' in the dictionaries, as opposed to 'deifir', but there may be some pronunciation variation that I'm not aware of in some areas.
Dineen dictionary has an interesting entry on difear/deifir. They appear to be the same word. Will post tomorrow.
Micilin Muc is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
28-06-2012, 00:03   #32
Gumbi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gael View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbi View Post
I think it's deifir which means hurry, but difference in Munster we use deabhadh for hurry. Bhí deabhadh orm etc
It's definitely spelt 'difear' in the dictionaries, as opposed to 'deifir', but there may be some pronunciation variation that I'm not aware of in some areas.
I think we're both right, as above.
Gumbi is offline  
28-06-2012, 01:40   #33
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Ba mhaith liom a rá an meid seo a leanas i nGaeilge: 'We would like to thank our friends and family who have come from near and far to celebrate our special day with us. We are very grateful to you all for your help and support and we look forward to spending many more happy times with you in the years ahead of us.'

Is é seo mo aistriucháin:

'Ba mhaith linn ár mbuíochas a ghabháil lenár gclann agus lenár gcairde ó chian agus ó chóngar as an lá speisialta seo a cheiliúradh linn. Táimid an-bhuíoch díbh as ucht bhur gcabhair agus bhur dtacaíocht go dtí seo. Táimid ag tnúth go mór le am gealgháireach a bheith againn lena chéile sna blianta atá romhainn.'

Beidh mé fíor-bhuíoch díbh as ucht gach ceartúcháin.
Aodh Rua is offline  
28-06-2012, 08:21   #34
Gumbi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,591
Ní féidir liom rud a aimsiú, ach amháin san absurd deireanach, ina deirtear "beidh" in ionad "bheadh", ach taobh amuigh den bhotún sin, ní cheap aim go bhfuil aon rud cearr leis an aistriúcháin

"Abairt" a bhí i gceist agam in ionad "absurd" above. Cuir an milleán ar an iPhone!

Last edited by Gumbi; 29-06-2012 at 19:15.
Gumbi is offline  
29-06-2012, 17:37   #35
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Is it correctly "siúil a rúin" or "siúil a rún"? The Wikipedia article says the former but many artists have published songs until the latter spelling.

Which, grammatically, is correct?
Aodh Rua is offline  
Advertisement
29-06-2012, 19:19   #36
Gumbi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aodh Rua View Post
Is it correctly "siúil a rúin" or "siúil a rún"? The Wikipedia article says the former but many artists have published songs until the latter spelling.

Which, grammatically, is correct?
The latter is correct. Genaerally, words are made genitive when invoked in the vocative. A Sheáin A Thomáis etc Terms of endearment, however, aren't put in the genitive, so it stays as rún.

Same situation here: A stóir is incorrect It's A stór.
Gumbi is offline  
(3) thanks from:
06-03-2013, 19:54   #37
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Tá cúpla ceist agam oraibh:

1) "In the case of adjectives with one syllable, an a is attached to the end of nouns ending in a broad consonant, and an e to those ending in a slender consonant: mór (big) fadhbanna móra (big mouths); binn (sweet) guthanna binne (sweet voices)" (Turas Teanga's excellent guide to Irish grammar here.)

Question: Did they mean to say "an a is attached to the end of adjectives"?

2) I have been told that while the gender of a noun determines the gender of the following adjective, an exception to this is when the verb 'Bí' is being used. Then it doesn't matter if the noun is feminine or not. For instance, 'tá an fhuinneog costasach' not 'Tá an fhuinneog chostasach'.

Question: Could anybody clarify the rule here, if there are other exceptions, and why this is so?

Grma.
Aodh Rua is offline  
06-03-2013, 19:57   #38
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
ceist amháin eile: What's the "hats" rule regarding the gender (?) of nouns? Grma arís
Aodh Rua is offline  
06-03-2013, 22:14   #39
mr chips
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 492
Re the letter a - yep, that should have said adjectives rather than nouns.

'Tá an fhuinneog costasach' vs 'Tá an fhuinneog chostasach'.
The first one means "the window is expensive". The second one would be part of a longer sentence that starts with "The expensive window is ...", e.g. "Tá an fhuinneog chostasach briste" - the expensive window is broken.

Haven't heard of the "hats" rule, can you elaborate/give any example?
mr chips is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
15-03-2013, 20:28   #40
deirdremf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aodh Rua View Post
2) I have been told that while the gender of a noun determines the gender of the following adjective, an exception to this is when the verb 'Bí' is being used. Then it doesn't matter if the noun is feminine or not. For instance, 'tá an fhuinneog costasach' not 'Tá an fhuinneog chostasach'.

Question: Could anybody clarify the rule here, if there are other exceptions, and why this is so?

Grma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chips View Post
'Tá an fhuinneog costasach' vs 'Tá an fhuinneog chostasach'.
The first one means "the window is expensive". The second one would be part of a longer sentence that starts with "The expensive window is ...", e.g. "Tá an fhuinneog chostasach briste" - the expensive window is broken.
In the example "tá an fhuinneog costasach", the adjective is not being used to qualify the noun; i.e. it is not part of the semantic unit based on the word "fuinneog". I have seen this described as an adverbial use of the adjective.

So there are three parts to the sentence:
Tá - an fhuinneog - costasach.
the window - is - expensive.

In Mr chips example, he has done the same, but now the word "costasach" is part of the second part of the sentence:
tá - an fhuinneog chostasach - briste.
the expensive window - is - broken.
In this last case, the word "briste" is also an adjective, but is used adverbially, while "costasach" is used attributively, i.e. as an attribute of the window.

We could of course turn this sentence around and say:
Tá an fhuinneog bhriste costasach.
the broken window - is - expensive.
In this case, "briste" is used attributively, while "costasach" is used adverbially.

Finally, if you are familiar with Latin languages, both uses of the adjective would be feminine, which can cause confusion for people who learn a Romance language and Irish
I hope this is of some help.
deirdremf is offline  
Thanks from:
15-03-2013, 22:41   #41
Gumbi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,591
Gotta correct my own error in terminology above! I meant vocative as opposed to genitive!
Gumbi is offline  
Thanks from:
20-03-2013, 01:14   #42
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Grma arís.

Ceann eile:

Táim ag múineadh dóibh (I am teaching them)=> Cén fáth go bhfuil sé mícheart/Why is this incorrect? But apparently I can say 'Táim ag múineadh staire dóibh'. Can somebody explain why?

Should it be something like "Táim á múineadh"? If so, why?

(I know there's a rule about putting the word after the verbal noun into the tuiseal ginideach uatha but I'm not sure if it's connected to this)
Aodh Rua is offline  
20-03-2013, 22:51   #43
deirdremf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aodh Rua View Post
Grma arís.

Ceann eile:

Táim ag múineadh dóibh (I am teaching them)=> Cén fáth go bhfuil sé mícheart/Why is this incorrect? But apparently I can say 'Táim ag múineadh staire dóibh'. Can somebody explain why?
The simple way to say this is "Múineann mé iad". This is probably the best as teaching is something that you do over a period of time, while "tá" is for more immediate matters.
In any case, "dóibh" means "to them", and you wouldn't say this in English either, if that is of any help. You need to teach something to them.
Quote:
Should it be something like "Táim á múineadh"? If so, why?
(I know there's a rule about putting the word after the verbal noun into the tuiseal ginideach uatha but I'm not sure if it's connected to this)
- Múineann mé iad
- Tá mé á múineadh
- Tá siad á múineadh agam
You could say any of the above, and with an object:
- Múineann mé stair dóibh
- Tá stair á múineadh agam dóibh

You have to be careful with the "á múineadh" construction, as it refers to the student or students, and the initial will have a séimhiú/urú/will be unchanged, depending on whether what you are referring to is masculine/plural/feminine. Obviously in this case, it doesn't change as students are plural and "m" doesn't take an urú.
deirdremf is offline  
(2) thanks from:
08-04-2013, 10:22   #44
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Ar fheabhas arís Deirdre.

Does every noun not belong to a particular declension?

I now know that 'Teach' is second declension and one of the three exceptions to that declension which are masculine.

However, Focal.ie for instance, just records its gender, Fir, and not the declension number (i.e. Fir2). Similarly, Bean is recorded as 'Bain', but no declension is given. Focloir.ie also omits the declension. Why would they leave the declension number out when recording some words?

Grma.
Aodh Rua is offline  
12-04-2013, 22:40   #45
deirdremf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aodh Rua View Post
Ar fheabhas arís Deirdre.

Does every noun not belong to a particular declension?

I now know that 'Teach' is second declension and one of the three exceptions to that declension which are masculine.

However, Focal.ie for instance, just records its gender, Fir, and not the declension number (i.e. Fir2). Similarly, Bean is recorded as 'Bain', but no declension is given. Focloir.ie also omits the declension. Why would they leave the declension number out when recording some words?

Grma.
Declensions in Irish are sort of makey-uppy, trying to fit the Irish language in a structure similar to Latin, with a number of well-defined declensions, but Irish is full of small groups of not-so-well defined words.

Really, what you want to do is just know what the nominative and genitive are. Words generally follow a pattern: one syllable words ending in a broad consonant tend to make the genitive by palatalising the last consonant (in the written language, you put an "i" before the consonant"), one syllable words ending in a narrow consonant tend to add an "e" in the genitive. These are your basic first and second declensions. After that there are all sorts of smaller groups of words which act in various ways. Just learn the patterns, and you won't need to know the official declensions; you'll be able to extrapolate how a word changes.
Far more important is knowing the gender of a noun, in any case, but I assume you already have got that far!
deirdremf is offline  
Thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet