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15-12-2011, 12:28   #16
pog it
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But only if the consonant is preceeded by an "i", i.e. if it is a narrow consonant.
See my post above!

i.e consan caol.
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30-03-2012, 15:59   #17
 
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"in St Joseph's Church" = "i Séipéal San Sheosaimh"?

Séipéal = masculine
San = ?
Seosamh= ?

I know it should be "San" rather than "Naomh" because Joseph's not an Irish saint. I am not, however, sure on what is genitive and nominative above, and therefore the spellings. Would anybody be able to clarify? Grma.
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30-03-2012, 18:52   #18
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"in St Joseph's Church" = "i Séipéal San Sheosaimh"?

Séipéal = masculine
San = ?
Seosamh= ?

I know it should be "San" rather than "Naomh" because Joseph's not an Irish saint. I am not, however, sure on what is genitive and nominative above, and therefore the spellings. Would anybody be able to clarify? Grma.
I think Naomh rather than San here; he's a traditional saint.

As for Seosamh being in the genitive, there would be two views on that: there is no possession involved, so you will probably see both versions.
Do a google for "séipéal naomh" or "séipéal san" and see what versions follow. Choose the most common!
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30-03-2012, 19:07   #19
Micilin Muc
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I think Naomh rather than San here; he's a traditional saint.

As for Seosamh being in the genitive, there would be two views on that: there is no possession involved, so you will probably see both versions.
Do a google for "séipéal naomh" or "séipéal san" and see what versions follow. Choose the most common!
The rule according to the Christian Brothers Irish Grammar is that no genitive ever follows 'Naomh' or 'San'.
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23-06-2012, 20:14   #20
 
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I want to say 'Love and Loyalty'. Is this 'Grá 7 Dílse' or 'Grá 7 Dílseacht'?

The usually superb (and free) An Gum Irish Dictionary app on my android phone returns 'dílse' as the Irish for both 'loyalty' and 'fidelity'.

However, most of the results here for 'loyalty' have 'dílseacht'.

Irishionary has both:
dílse nf4 allegiance, loyalty, pledge
dílseacht nf allegiance, commitment, faithfulness, fidelity, loyalty

What, if anything, is the difference between both words? Which would be best to use for the above? Grma.
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24-06-2012, 21:07   #21
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I am aware of no difference between them.
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25-06-2012, 11:48   #22
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I am aware of no difference between them.
Me neither. It's just like difríocht/difear; both two words to say the exact same thing. One form may be more common in a particular dialectic area than the other, but the meaning is the same.
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25-06-2012, 11:59   #23
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'Dílseacht' is the concept, whereas 'dílse' is the trait. Mar shampla:

Tá dílse ar leith aici dá bpáistí thar a col ceathracha (trait)

Tá an dílseacht ina téama láidir sa dán seo (concept)


Dílse/dílseacht aren't verbal nouns, but the Christian Brothers explain the similar concept of two different verbal nouns for the same verb, for example 'léamh' and 'léitheoireacht' for the verb 'léigh'.

"Na cinn is faide, is iondúil go léiríonn siad leanúnachas, minicíocht, teibíocht, torann, treise, srl., rud nach ndéanann na cinn ghairide."

So it all depends on the context for "Love and Loyalty"...

Last edited by Micilin Muc; 25-06-2012 at 12:05.
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25-06-2012, 12:08   #24
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I am aware of no difference between them.
Me neither. It's just like difríocht/difear; both two words to say the exact same thing. One form may be more common in a particular dialectic area than the other, but the meaning is the same.
I think it's deifir which means hurry, but difference in Munster we use deabhadh for hurry. Bhí deabhadh orm etc
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25-06-2012, 17:31   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Micilin Muc View Post
'Dílseacht' is the concept, whereas 'dílse' is the trait. Mar shampla:

Tá dílse ar leith aici dá bpáistí thar a col ceathracha (trait)

Tá an dílseacht ina téama láidir sa dán seo (concept)


Dílse/dílseacht aren't verbal nouns, but the Christian Brothers explain the similar concept of two different verbal nouns for the same verb, for example 'léamh' and 'léitheoireacht' for the verb 'léigh'.

"Na cinn is faide, is iondúil go léiríonn siad leanúnachas, minicíocht, teibíocht, torann, treise, srl., rud nach ndéanann na cinn ghairide."

So it all depends on the context for "Love and Loyalty"...
Go diail a mhicilín; táim an-bhuíoch díot as an difríocht a mhiniú. Tá ceist eile agam duit/daoibh, áfach. Cad é an slí is fearr ar 'Our Wedding Mass' a rá? An bhfuil sé 'Aifreann ár mBainis', 'Aifreann ár mBainise', 'Aifreann ár bpósadh', 'Ceiliúradh Aifrinn (sp?) ár bPósadh'(de réir mo chara i gCorca Dhuibhne úsáidtear ‘pósadh’ seachas ‘bainis’ maidir leis an tAifreann agus ‘bainis’ don bhéile amháin) - cé acu is fearr nó an bhfuil focail níos oiriúnaí le húsáid ina thaobh?
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25-06-2012, 17:38   #26
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An bhainis is ea an ceiliúradh a dhéantar ag an óstán. Tarlaíonn an pósadh sa séipéal/sa Chlárlann.

Our Wedding Mass = Aifreann ár bPósta

Ach is deise "Ár bPósadh", más ar an leabhrán don aifreann atá sé le cur!
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25-06-2012, 18:29   #27
 
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An bhainis is ea an ceiliúradh a dhéantar ag an óstán. Tarlaíonn an pósadh sa séipéal/sa Chlárlann.

Our Wedding Mass = Aifreann ár bPósta

Ach is deise "Ár bPósadh", más ar an leabhrán don aifreann atá sé le cur!

Grma arís, a Mhicilín. Bhíomar ag smaoineamh mar gheall ar an focal ‘ár’ ar an leabhrán agus nílimid chun ‘ár’ a úsáid ag deireadh an lae. Dá bhrí sin, conas a déarfá ‘Wedding Mass’ amháin: 'Aifreann Pósadh' nó ‘Aifreann Pósta’?
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25-06-2012, 23:48   #28
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What, if anything, is the difference between both words? Which would be best to use for the above? Grma.
I'm only adding to what Micilin Muc said. Irish has three main methods for converting adjectives into abstract nouns. Namely:

1. Comparative form of adjective.
2. Add -(e)as.
3. Add -(e)acht or -(a)íocht.

Sometimes two or three of the methods are equally valid:
binne, binneas, binneacht.

Usually the one formed via (1.) has an additional meaning. e.g. all of these mean sweetness or melody, but only binne means harmony.

dílse and dílseacht are both loyalty, but dílse (formed by (1.)) has the additional meaning of loyalty to something as a trait (with the preposition do).
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26-06-2012, 12:24   #29
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Grma arís, a Mhicilín. Bhíomar ag smaoineamh mar gheall ar an focal ‘ár’ ar an leabhrán agus nílimid chun ‘ár’ a úsáid ag deireadh an lae. Dá bhrí sin, conas a déarfá ‘Wedding Mass’ amháin: 'Aifreann Pósadh' nó ‘Aifreann Pósta’?
I would write 'Aifreann an Phósta'!

Go n-éirí leis na hullmhúcháin Tá sé go maith go bhfuil Gaeilgeoirí ag pósadh!!
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27-06-2012, 21:50   #30
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I think it's deifir which means hurry, but difference in Munster we use deabhadh for hurry. Bhí deabhadh orm etc
It's definitely spelt 'difear' in the dictionaries, as opposed to 'deifir', but there may be some pronunciation variation that I'm not aware of in some areas.
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