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N4 - Collooney to Castlebaldwin [open to traffic]

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭jhenno78


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Ireland is the fifth highest indebted sovereign nation in Europe, after Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Belgium.

    Just not true.

    We're 11th at 68.5% of GDP - compared to the EU average of 83.2%
    Germany are in 12th at 64%, feckless rogues that they are.

    Government borrowing is cheap at the moment, incredibly cheap. Given how politically/ideologically unpopular it is, it's likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

    And as was pointed out, it's borrowing for investment which will yield much more than the cost. Personally I think we're mad to not borrow now to invest in things like infrastructure and education.


  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭NedNew2


    jhenno78 wrote: »
    Just not true.

    We're 11th at 68.5% of GDP - compared to the EU average of 83.2%
    Germany are in 12th at 64%, feckless rogues that they are.

    Government borrowing is cheap at the moment, incredibly cheap. Given how politically/ideologically unpopular it is, it's likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

    And as was pointed out, it's borrowing for investment which will yield much more than the cost. Personally I think we're mad to not borrow now to invest in things like infrastructure and education.

    You cannot rely on GDP figures in Ireland due to the effect of multinationals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    Except it is very true. GDP in an Irish context are fairy numbers.

    A truer measure is the gross national income (GNI) measure. On this measure, Irelands debt is around 100% making us the fifth highest indebted sovereign in the EU after Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Belgium.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭jhenno78


    NedNew2 wrote: »
    You cannot rely on GDP figures in Ireland due to the effect of multinationals.

    Fair point as a measure of general economic activity, though I would argue that it's all taxable so it's relevant.

    Haven't seen recent(since 2011) figures available for debt to GNI and even our GNI will be much higher since then. I might sit down and work them out if I have time.

    Either way, the main idea stands. Borrowing for this stuff is worth it and it'll never be cheaper to do.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Dominic Mullaney of DTTAS spoke recently at an Oireachtas committee and said that this project would be underway by Christmas. It's looking tight but there should be a tender award very, very shortly if that's the case.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donegal Storm


    CIS Ireland reporting that the tender will be awarded "in the coming months" so definitely 2019 before anything happens here. It was given the go ahead by ABP in mid 2014 so almost 5 years from approval to construction for a relatively short and straight forward scheme..


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    CIS Ireland reporting that the tender will be awarded "in the coming months" so definitely 2019 before anything happens here. It was given the go ahead by ABP in mid 2014 so almost 5 years from approval to construction for a relatively short and straight forward scheme..

    Chronically slow. Bearing in mind there've been many deaths on this stretch too. As I said I was up there well over a year ago and was all fenced off. It’s crazy it hasn’t progressed to construction in that time- this has been talked about and planned for decades- what hope for all new builds if this is the rate of progress?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41 HabibiLibnen


    This scheme should be starting very shortly, perhaps early February, given all the hints and the fact it has been specified for a 2019 start earlier this year. €23,891,000 allocated to Sligo Co. Co. for this road alone for 2019.

    From Sligo Co. Co. website: "The 2019 allocation confirms that the Scheme is going to long awaited construction in the coming year. The Council will, once Cabinet sign-off is received, look to sign the contract for construction early in 2019 to allow for immediate commencement of work."


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Still no word on start construction date? For the thread title. All credit to maynooth but can mods encourage it getting its own thread. Sligo section is a long drive from this


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Maynooth posts moved.

    Tender for this scheme was to be awarded in Q4 2018 and it was to start before Christmas. This has not happened and there has been no official reason published for this.

    Here's what Shane Ross said last week:
    The N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin road scheme is one of the major national infrastructure projects included in the NDP for appraisal and delivery. It is required for regional connectivity and to support the ambition for development of the Border region and accessibility to the north west. It forms part of the N4 national primary route from Dublin to Silgo, which is identified as a strategic radial corridor, and also forms part of the TEN-T comprehensive network. This project involves the upgrading of a very substandard narrow section of the N4 to type 2 dual carriageway from the existing N41-N17 Toberbridge roundabout in Collooney, to Cloghoge Lower, south of Castlebaldwin village, a total length of 14.7 km, of which 11.2 km is offline. An Bord Pleanála approved the proposed development of the N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin scheme in 2014. All advance works have been completed and land purchase is 90% complete. Sligo County Council has now received tenders for the main construction contract. Government approval is required prior to the award of the project as it will cost in excess of €100 million. It is expected that a contractor will be appointed early in the new year. There are many expected benefits from the proposed scheme. An improved level of safety will reduce the number of fatalities. Improved conditions for pedestrians and cyclists wishing to access local services will increase their safety on the road and lead to environmental benefits including reduced emissions and improved water quality.

    If I were to guess it's something to do with him that's holding it up.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭highwaymaniac


    marno21 wrote: »
    Maynooth posts moved.

    Tender for this scheme was to be awarded in Q4 2018 and it was to start before Christmas. This has not happened and there has been no official reason published for this.

    Here's what Shane Ross said last week:



    If I were to guess it's something to do with him that's holding it up.

    No doubt, he couldn't care less about it. Pascal could be holding it up too. I would say the tenders must have come in over budget and they have to rerun the cost benefit assessment, which may not be looking great. What other reason to hold it up, can't find anything online about a legal challenge from a losing tenderer and haven't heard anything in that front either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    No doubt, he couldn't care less about it. Pascal could be holding it up too. I would say the tenders must have come in over budget and they have to rerun the cost benefit assessment, which may not be looking great. What other reason to hold it up, can't find anything online about a legal challenge from a losing tenderer and haven't heard anything in that front either.

    I wonder could projects like this take the hit for the children’s hospital?


  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Drifter50


    Yeah 2+2 would be perfectly fine from Longford on, traffic always noticeably thins out after Longford. Once the Castlebaldwin section is done the N4 will be largely complete from a safe alignment point of view but Mullingar - Longford is increasingly bumper to bumper so definitely needs an upgrade.

    I'd argue that a Carrick bypass is the single most urgent project on the N4 but seemingly no real progress being made there, I spent 35 minutes in a 4km tailback into the town last Monday all caused by the mini roundabout by the bridge.



    There's a short section from south of Mullingar to Lough Owel thats 100kph DC due to inadequate junctions. I drive it frequently and while it'd be nice to see it upgraded I've never seen any issues with it so would place it well down in the list of priorities

    Yes, you`re spot on there, regularly waste hours of my life trying to get over that damn bridge


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligochampion/news/delight-as-work-on-n4-scheduled-to-begin-in-early-2019-37648737.html

    N4 to proceed to construction after Cabinet signoff.

    So the delay has now been pinpointed and it's the usual suspect holding it up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    This is a very bad omen for all other road projects- this has been in the pipeline for years, lots of planning done and shovel ready, relatively small compared to say a new M20- and yet hasn’t even started yet on site. What hope then for bigger, less progressed schemes? Shocking stuff


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    road_high wrote: »
    This is a very bad omen for all other road projects- this has been in the pipeline for years, lots of planning done and shovel ready, relatively small compared to say a new M20- and yet hasn’t even started yet on site. What hope then for bigger, less progressed schemes? Shocking stuff
    Shane Ross being ****ed out and someone coming in that actually takes their job seriously would be a good start.

    Metrolink, BusConnects, M20, M21, N6 Galway Bypass, this scheme amongst others delayed this year due to political incompetence.




  • marno21 wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligochampion/news/delight-as-work-on-n4-scheduled-to-begin-in-early-2019-37648737.html

    N4 to proceed to construction after Cabinet signoff.

    So the delay has now been pinpointed and it's the usual suspect holding it up.

    I'm sorry, but what? Can you clarify because that article you linked and your comment do not tie together


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I'm sorry, but what? Can you clarify because that article you linked and your comment do not tie together
    Tenders have been received by Sligo County Council, they are awaiting Cabinet signoff on the project before proceeding to construction.

    What's wrong with my comment?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    marno21 wrote: »
    Tenders have been received by Sligo County Council, they are awaiting Cabinet signoff on the project before proceeding to construction.

    What's wrong with my comment?

    I was confused too. The cabinet haven’t actually signed off on it yet I think is the question?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41 HabibiLibnen




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Map of the scheme looks to be an almost online dualling - is this correct?

    Are they building a roundabout or freeflowing it from south of Castlebaldwin?

    Theyd hardly be smart and lose the N17/N4 roundabout as part of this or am i being hopelessly optimistic.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Map of the scheme looks to be an almost online dualling - is this correct?

    Are they building a roundabout or freeflowing it from south of Castlebaldwin?

    Theyd hardly be smart and lose the N17/N4 roundabout as part of this or am i being hopelessly optimistic.

    The first few kms on the northern side are online - the rest is offline

    The N17/N4 roundabout will remain as is. When the N17 dualling is done there'll be three dual carriageways meeting at the roundabout so it'll likely need addressing then


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41 HabibiLibnen


    The section closest to the Collooney tie-in is online but most of it is offline but parallel to the existing route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭ryanch09


    Is there a specific time for this to be completed in 2021 or is that just an estimate in itself?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41 HabibiLibnen


    http://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/28737-minister-shane-ross-to-visit-sligo-on-25th-february

    It's actually not going to happen until February 25th. 4 months lost when this could already be well under way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Who has won the contract it doesn’t say in the reports


  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭tigerboon


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Who has won the contract it doesn’t say in the reports

    Roadbridge as far as I know


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donegal Storm


    http://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/28737-minister-shane-ross-to-visit-sligo-on-25th-february

    It's actually not going to happen until February 25th. 4 months lost when this could already be well under way.

    Jokeshop.

    Is there any confirmation that work is even starting then? Sod turnings are just meaningless PR shoots a lot of the time. Plenty projects over the years that had sod turnings then never even started


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    tigerboon wrote: »
    Roadbridge as far as I know

    Id say with site set up etc we could be looking at well after st Patrick's day before any heavy work starts


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