Why I'm taking my rental off the market

Pkiernan · 08-09-2018 5:53pm #1

I have a nice apartment in a very desirable area that will rent in a heartbeat.

I haven't raised the rent since 2008, and property was last rented at 40% below market rate. I've never been interested in getting the most rent possible.

Last tenant just abandoned the property without notice owing 4 months rent and has left the place in such a state that the kitchen and bathroom had to be entirely torn out and rebuilt from the studs out.

Living room floor so damaged it has to be replaced.

Kitchen appliances destroyed or missing.
Entire apartment needs to be completely repainted.

With the unpaid rent and repairs I'm out of pocket approx 17k euro, and no hope of reimbursement.

He had been there for 3 years with relatively few issues.

Place will be refurbed by end of September and is going on Air BnB, where 120 days a year occupancy will net me more than renting.

If the government restricts short term rentals then I'll just keep it empty and use it as a holiday home.

I'm sure I'm like many others who are sick of having zero property rights over their own property.

Seth Brundle · 08-09-2018 5:59pm

I'd recommend that you pen this into national media such as the Irish Times as most people are unaware if the hassle from renting and why current policies are contributing to the property problems. Get a bit of fact based discussion going on the topic.

sunnysoutheast · 08-09-2018 6:02pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

I have a nice apartment in a very desirable area that will rent in a heartbeat.

I haven't raised the rent since 2008, and property was last rented at 40% below market rate. I've never been interested in getting the most rent possible.

Last tenant just abandoned the property without notice owing 4 months rent and has left the place in such a state that the kitchen and bathroom had to be entirely torn out and rebuilt from the studs out.

Living room floor so damaged it has to be replaced.

Kitchen appliances destroyed or missing.
Entire apartment needs to be completely repainted.

With the unpaid rent and repairs I'm out of pocket approx 17k euro, and no hope of reimbursement.

He had been there for 3 years with relatively few issues.

Place will be refurbed by end of September and is going on Air BnB, where 120 days a year occupancy will net me more than renting.

If the government restricts short term rentals then I'll just keep it empty and use it as a holiday home.

I'm sure I'm like many others who are sick of having zero property rights over their own property.

Might be worth a chat with an acct. about whether you can realise any losses you can offset against future income or gains?

Sorry I don't know the ins and outs of it in detail.

Yeah you would be crazy being a landlord in the current regulatory and fiscal environment imho.

Pkiernan · 08-09-2018 6:29pm

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Might be worth a chat with an acct. about whether you can realise any losses you can offset against future income or gains?

Sorry I don't know the ins and outs of it in detail.

Yeah you would be crazy being a landlord in the current regulatory and fiscal environment imho.

Repairs tend to be tax deductible alright, but need income to deduct against!

Anyway, I'll see how Air BnB works out.

spurious · 08-09-2018 6:31pm

Would you consider the high-end rental sector, to Big Four accountancy firms etc. for visiting executives?

niallers1 · 08-09-2018 6:36pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'd recommend that you pen this into national media such as the Irish Times as most people are unaware if the hassle from renting and why current policies are contributing to the property problems. Get a bit of fact based discussion going on the topic.

Media are not interested in these type of stories at the moment. Don't suppose you have any cruel landlord stories? They'll bite the hand off you for those.

ceadaoin. · 08-09-2018 6:37pm

Sounds like you need to vet prospective tenants better tbh. And raise the rent in line with market rates.

The place can still get wrecked by air bnb guests

amcalester · 08-09-2018 6:39pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Sounds like you need to vet prospective tenants better tbh. And raise the rent in line with market rates.

Not much you can do if after 2.5 years the tenant stops paying.

Also, in a RPZ he’s not allowed increase the rent to market rates.

Pkiernan · 08-09-2018 6:39pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Sounds like you need to vet prospective tenants better tbh. And raise the rent in line with market rates.

Thanks for your constructive input.

Please advise as to what level of vetting will determine if a tenant will stop paying rent after 3 years.

AndrewJRenko · 08-09-2018 6:41pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

Place will be refurbed by end of September and is going on Air BnB, where 120 days a year occupancy will net me more than renting.

Brilliant - tenants are the problem, so you're choosing a strategy that will get MORE tenants with LESS checking and verification into your property.

Great business strategy.

Browney7 · 08-09-2018 6:45pm

Presumably you had started the RTB process for rent arrears and you are going to pursue through the RTB to get a determination order even if actually receiving any cash is a remote possibility - has tenant left the country and is uncontactable?

GarIT · 08-09-2018 6:48pm

amcalester wrote: »

Not much you can do if after 2.5 years the tenant stops paying.

Also, in a RPZ he’s not allowed increase the rent to market rates.

They can raise the rent if they have spent €10k+ on renovations.

Seth Brundle · 08-09-2018 6:49pm

niallers1 wrote: »

Media are not interested in these type of stories at the moment. Don't suppose you have any cruel landlord stories? They'll bite the hand off you for those.

A letter to the editor is likely to be printed and will generate a reaction.

Stoner · 08-09-2018 6:50pm

Pkiernan wrote:

I haven't raised the rent since 2008, and property was last rented at 40% below market rate. I've never been interested in getting the most rent possible.

I was in that situation many years ago. 2007.

I sold up. However I realised that for the reduced rent I was charging I was expecting the tenants to treat the place better, so i visited it less, took my eye off the ball. Ended up with cockroaches in a house that was gutted and refurbished just two years before.

I guess I was lazy, or too busy, but I didn't nip it in the bud. That was my fault.
I was expecting extra consideration for my property from the tenant because I charged less.

It doesn't work that way.

GarIT · 08-09-2018 6:51pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Brilliant - tenants are the problem, so you're choosing a strategy that will get MORE tenants with LESS checking and verification into your property.

Great business strategy.

You missed a bit, tenants rights with lact of responsibility is the problem.

Someone renting for a weekend can hardly do as much damage as someone there for 3 years, and if they do Airbnb has their credit or debit card details. +Someone renting short term has none of the crazy rights.

road_high · 08-09-2018 6:58pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

Thanks for your constructive input.

Please advise as to what level of vetting will determine if a tenant will stop paying rent after 3 years.

Ask and seek bona fide references. Employment contract with a reputable firm etc. Plenty of ways to sort the wheat from the chaff and minimize that risk.

ceadaoin. · 08-09-2018 6:59pm

GarIT wrote: »

You missed a bit, tenants rights with lact of responsibility is the problem.

Someone renting for a weekend can hardly do as much damage as someone there for 3 years, and if they do Airbnb has their credit or debit card details. +Someone renting short term has none of the crazy rights.

What are these "crazy rights" that tenants have? I haven't rented in Ireland in years so I'm a bit out of the loop I guess.

Pkiernan · 08-09-2018 7:00pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Brilliant - tenants are the problem, so you're choosing a strategy that will get MORE tenants with LESS checking and verification into your property.

Great business strategy.

Air BNB guests are held financially accountable for damage they cause.

Don't know why you feel the need to insult me.

jimbobaloobob · 08-09-2018 7:01pm

Browney7 wrote: »

Presumably you had started the RTB process for rent arrears and you are going to pursue through the RTB to get a determination order even if actually receiving any cash is a remote possibility - has tenant left the country and is uncontactable?

I've yet to hear a landlord say this has been a successful process.

AndrewJRenko · 08-09-2018 7:02pm

GarIT wrote: »

You missed a bit, tenants rights with lact of responsibility is the problem.

Someone renting for a weekend can hardly do as much damage as someone there for 3 years, and if they do Airbnb has their credit or debit card details. +Someone renting short term has none of the crazy rights.

Yeah, Airbnb had the credit card details - you don't. And Airbnb will keep the credit card details;

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Hosting/Guest-trashed-my-home-and-Airbnb-Disappears/td-p/651574

They have a 'host guarantee' but I understand that, like most insurance, it is fairly difficult to get money out of them. You require a police report.

And the OP will need to make sure his insurer is happy with short-term guests.

Pkiernan · 08-09-2018 7:02pm

road_high wrote: »

Ask and seek bona fide references. Employment contract with a reputable firm etc. Plenty of ways to sort the wheat from the chaff and minimize that risk.

What you propose is de facto discrimination against SW reecipients and is illegal.

road_high · 08-09-2018 7:05pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

What you propose is de facto discrimination against SW reecipients and is illegal.

Who cares. It's your individual property and have a right to let to whom you chose. If you want to pander to the bleedin heart brigade though be my guest!

spaceHopper · 08-09-2018 7:06pm

You'll be doing a huge amount of work document it all and if you decide to re rent it put the rent at the maket rate and tell the RTB you did refurb other wise good luck with the rtb

vectorvictor · 08-09-2018 7:09pm

Struggling to find the point of this thread? I'm gathering that it's that you have something that's in demand and you are not sharing it?

So be it.

Being a landlord comes with risks and you've bottled it when they came home to roost.

If you think that's bad just wait until you see how Airbnb's host guarantee plays out. The headline figures are attractive but after host fees,
tax , cleaning/agency and trying to fill it on a wet Wednesday in November , you'll be back to the rental market in no time.

That's not to mention last minute cancellations, Sara from Copenhagen checking herself out on day one and getting a unilateral refund from Airbnb because the wifi is down or the towels are too rough (they have a guest guarantee too!) Meanwhile you are left nursing the cost of a perishable asset - you can never sell an empty night when the night has passed.

What's new is wonderful until you experience it and you are positioning a choice you have never tried as the answer. Naive.

Fann Linn · 08-09-2018 7:12pm

amcalester wrote: »

Not much you can do if after 2.5 years the tenant stops paying.

Also, in a RPZ he’s not allowed increase the rent to market rates.

Thought it was 4 months.

jobbridge4life · 08-09-2018 7:16pm

GarIT wrote: »

You missed a bit, tenants rights with lact of responsibility is the problem.

Someone renting for a weekend can hardly do as much damage as someone there for 3 years, and if they do Airbnb has their credit or debit card details. +Someone renting short term has none of the crazy rights.

That is hilarious. An apartment can be destroyed in a matter of minutes, literally. So who is more likely to respect a place? Someone who is hoping to live in the accommodation long term? Or someone from outside the country who rents it for a couple of nights, who 'forgot' to mention they were renting it for a stag and actually turns out half their mates couldn't find accommodation so they let them stay the night?

The insane victim complex of landlords is one of the most bizarre aspects of Irish life today.

jobbridge4life · 08-09-2018 7:17pm

amcalester wrote: »

Also, in a RPZ he’s not allowed increase the rent to market rates.

All of us know this is patent nonsense. Rent rates in RZPs have increased by multiples of the limit ever since it was introduced.

Sleeper12 · 08-09-2018 7:22pm

OP you are obviously not suited to the rental business.

First off is has to treated as a business. You should have been charging market value. You should have had regular inspections. You shouldn't have let them fall behind four months rent. If I had a tenant 4 months behind on rent I would expect that they would leave without telling..

Its nice to be nice but many people see being nice as a weakness and take advantage. This happened to you.

You are better off not renting if you don't run it properly.

Sleeper12 · 08-09-2018 7:25pm

Seth Brundle wrote:

I'd recommend that you pen this into national media such as the Irish Times as most people are unaware if the hassle from renting and why current policies are contributing to the property problems. Get a bit of fact based discussion going on the topic.

You should read the opening post again. In this case it had nothing to do with current policies. Everything that happened, happened because op didn't run it properly

Pkiernan · 08-09-2018 7:30pm

vectorvictor wrote: »

Struggling to find the point of this thread? I'm gathering that it's that you have something that's in demand and you are not sharing it?

So be it.

Being a landlord comes with risks and you've bottled it when they came home to roost.

If you think that's bad just wait until you see how Airbnb's host guarantee plays out. The headline figures are attractive but after host fees,
tax , cleaning/agency and trying to fill it on a wet Wednesday in November , you'll be back to the rental market in no time.

That's not to mention last minute cancellations, Sara from Copenhagen checking herself out on day one and getting a unilateral refund from Airbnb because the wifi is down or the towels are too rough (they have a guest guarantee too!) Meanwhile you are left nursing the cost of a perishable asset - you can never sell an empty night when the night has passed.

Why are you being so aggressive?

I didn't bottle anything.
I do not wish to rent my property again, as landlords are powerless to recoup losses like these.

I will make the same money thru Air BnB with less risk. I don't care if it's empty on a Wed in November.

The point of my thread is that current legislation is actively driving landlords away from renting to tenants.

Don't know why pointing that out has made you so angry.

Pkiernan · 08-09-2018 7:32pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

OP you are obviously not suited to the rental business.

First off is has to treated as a business. You should have been charging market value. You should have had regular inspections. You shouldn't have let them fall behind four months rent. If I had a tenant 4 months behind on rent I would expect that they would leave without telling..

Its nice to be nice but many people see being nice as a weakness and take advantage. This happened to you.

You are better off not renting if you don't run it properly.

I've been renting it since 1995. Fully paid off asset worth considerable money.
Some of us don't look for every penny.

You appear to have zero knowledge of the eviction process in this country.

Why I'm taking my rental off the market

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