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whats involved in upgrading meter tails?

  • 30-07-2020 4:47pm
    #1
    ivegotaseri
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭


    title i need to go from 16,16,10s to 16,16,16s, what is actually involved in the process, eg would the electrician have to check all sockets, lights etc or is it as simple as open the meter and the board, remove old tails install new tails and test. in the time of covid id put it off for another few months if it req the electrician to go from room to room.


Comments

  • #2
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭meercat


    ivegotaseri wrote: »
    title i need to go from 16,16,10s to 16,16,16s, what is actually involved in the process, eg would the electrician have to check all sockets, lights etc or is it as simple as open the meter and the board, remove old tails install new tails and test. in the time of covid id put it off for another few months if it req the electrician to go from room to room.

    As part of a mains upgrade all earthing must be upgraded too(gas,hot press earth rod and equipotential bonding)
    It’s possible an over current protective device must be installed in the meter cabinet too.
    The whole installation must be tested and certified (every room)
    Esbn have a charge to do their work also(€180)
    The rec must then return to do post connection testing(every room)


  • #3
    JL spark
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭JL spark


    ivegotaseri wrote: »
    title i need to go from 16,16,10s to 16,16,16s, what is actually involved in the process, eg would the electrician have to check all sockets, lights etc or is it as simple as open the meter and the board, remove old tails install new tails and test. in the time of covid id put it off for another few months if it req the electrician to go from room to room.
    Why are you only going with 16s ?
    Your as well off to pull in 25s when your at it , any new builds we are at 25s are standard


  • #4
    ivegotaseri
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭ivegotaseri


    JL spark wrote: »
    Why are you only going with 16s ?
    Your as well off to pull in 25s when your at it , any new builds we are at 25s are standard


    electrician said based on the age of the build, board, mcbs, rcd etc. that the earth was the only issue as it would be undersized going forward, atm current condition was fine. if it is more appropriate ill probably go with 25s as im looking at an ev down the road, but based on the numbers from nphet tonight, im not leaving anyone into the gaf for a while


  • #5
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    ivegotaseri wrote: »
    title i need to go from 16,16,10s to 16,16,16s,

    So you only need a larger earth?
    That is unlikley to make difference to the earth fault loop impedance (which would be the main reason for doing this).

    How long are the tails approximately?

    I would be looking into this a bit more if I were you!


  • #6
    ivegotaseri
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭ivegotaseri


    2011 wrote: »
    So you only need a larger earth?
    That is unlikley to make difference to the earth fault loop impedance (which would be the main reason for doing this).

    How long are the tails approximately?

    I would be looking into this a bit more if I were you!

    5 or 6 meters, what kind of issues should i be asking about specifically?


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  • #7
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    See link for cable resistance table

    The resistance per 1m of 10 mm sq. cable is 0.0017 Ω
    Therefore, for 6m the resistance is 0.0102 Ω

    The resistance per 1m of 16 mm sq. cable is 0.0011 Ω
    Therefore, for 6m the resistance is 0.0066 Ω

    So you will reduce the resistance by around 0.0036 Ω by changing the 10mm cable for a 16mm cable.
    A reduction in resistance of 3.6 mΩ is such a marginal gain is so small it is almost insignificant.

    Ask whoever has made this call why they are suggesting this.

    If this is indeed required then I would think that a lot more work is also required as this change alone is pretty pointless in my opinion unless there is something else going on (such as the tails are damaged).


  • #8
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    If for whatever reason you need to upgrade the tails I would recommend that you go for increased size on all as has already been suggested by JL spark.

    I would also select 25 mm sq for all three. This would be good from a future proofing perspective as these would have a greater current carrying capacity (so better for an EV). Also the additional cost would be minimal. Replacing the earth only makes no sense whatsoever. I would be looking for another electrician if it was me. For the record I gave up working as an electrician a very long time ago.


  • #9
    JL spark
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭JL spark


    2011 wrote: »
    If for whatever reason you need to upgrade the tails I would recommend that you go for increased size on all as has already been suggested by JL spark.

    I would also select 25 mm sq for all three. This would be good from a future proofing perspective as these would have a greater current carrying capacity (so better for an EV). Also the additional cost would be minimal. Replacing the earth only makes no sense whatsoever. I would be looking for another electrician if it was me. For the record I gave up working as an electrician a very long time ago.

    You made the right decision giving up ,
    Trade is on its knees,
    Just regarding the tails , I would also say get a second opinion, a lot of lads out there doing guess work


  • #10
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    JL spark wrote: »
    You made the right decision giving up

    I was just making the point that I am not looking for electrical work.


  • #11
    ivegotaseri
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭ivegotaseri


    JL spark wrote: »
    You made the right decision giving up ,
    Trade is on its knees,
    Just regarding the tails , I would also say get a second opinion, a lot of lads out there doing guess work

    thanks for the advise, ill give the rec a call and clarify exactly the reasons for the upgrade and ring around next week after the bank holiday to get a 2nd opinion


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  • #12
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    ivegotaseri wrote: »
    thanks for the advise, ill give the rec a call and clarify exactly the reasons for the upgrade and ring around next week after the bank holiday to get a 2nd opinion

    I would be interested to know what the REC says. The explanation may show that there is more to it than what has been outlined above.


  • #13
    ivegotaseri
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭ivegotaseri


    2011 wrote: »
    I would be interested to know what the REC says. The explanation may show that there is more to it than what has been outlined above.

    just got off the phone with him and the quick explanation was that the earth appears to be caught on something in the wall or that the earth is about 2 to 3 foot shorter than the 16s and is rubbing against the block where the entry into the attic is and has no slack, and while there is no visible damage he would prefer to be cautious. not really sure about the answer probably will ring around.


  • #14
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    ivegotaseri wrote: »
    the earth appears to be caught on something in the wall or that the earth is about 2 to 3 foot shorter than the 16s

    My reply would be:
    If connected at both ends it is long enough, if not connected you have no earth (other than the earth rod) which would be very serious.
    is rubbing against the block where the entry into the attic is

    My reply would be:
    Rubbing how? The cable should not be moving.
    Perhaps he means it was damaged when installed in which case he could verify the integrity of the cable by measuring the resistance of the conductor and carrying out an insulation resistance test. These could then be compared to expected values and a decision could then be made on whether the cable needs to be replaced or not.
    has no slack,

    I would be surprised if a little slack can not be found by either:
    1) Moving the termination point on the MET (main earth terminal).
    2) Moving the MET
    3) Remounting the board (up or down) to provide even 1" of additional slack would make a massive difference. This is often not as difficult as it sounds (normally 4 screws hold it in place).
    4) Making an "adjustment" at the point of entry to the attic (knock the sharp edge off the block with a lump hammer).
    5) Making an "adjustment" at the point of entry to the board (different cable route).
    6) A combination of the above.
    while there is no visible damage he would prefer to be cautious.

    I would suggest that cautious would be to test as described above.

    Why does he not suggest replacing all 3 conductors? :confused:


  • #15
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭micks_address


    apologies this is an old thread but i have to get tails upgraded for a ev charger install. Ive had two electricians call - one said needed new tails, new earth to gas boilier, hot water cylinder.. and that be it.. the second said same but also said because the meter is being opened the house needs to be recertified.. if it makes an difference i just had a smart meter upgrade a few months ago.. he said the certification process is a pain and he will basically need to remove any metal light switches that arent earthed (id be ok with this) but also remove the kitchen metal light fitting and the two light fixtures downstairs in the living room and dining room.. both are chandeliers.. nothing fancy but are a mixture of metal and wood.. this will be kinda of annoying - never mind the cost - just picking out new lighting etc.. do they have to be removed? is the certification process required? house is circa 1980


    the gas boiler was upgraded a few years ago and they brought earth to cylinder and gas boiler but they arent strong enough?



  • #16
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    You'd have the ESBN side which is the supply to cabinets and their equipment in cabinet , that's their side of an upgrade

    Consumer side is the main protective device in the cabinet, tails, main board ratings and earthing

    The tails itself is only a part of the chain and you know what they say about the links on a chain



  • #17
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152689#Comment_119152689

    Yes. A Cert 1 is required.the whole house has to be tested and pass in order for the certificate to be issued.sometimes issues are discovered during testing and need to be rectified or a notice of potential hazard issued. Your installation is 40 years old and it’s possible a full Rewire may be recommended as it may not pass the insulation resistance testing along with other discoveries.



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