UFC 247: Jones vs Reyes

Mellor wrote: »

Which 3 rounds?

I gave the 3 final rds to Jones...3, 4 and 5

The overall comment I made related to him
looking like the fighter wanting it more, pushing it more and trying to win it more..

US2 wrote: »

Theres not enough draws in mma

Yeah I thought the 3rd was even enough and they each won two of the other four.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

On the scoring system that is in place I can't se for the life of me how Reyes didn't win
In my opinion he clearly won 3 rounds to two
All the talk of you have do more to beat the champ is nonsens, the scoring system does not take into account of who you are and rightly so m if you win a round you win a round regardless of who your fighting,

Reyes in my eyes won 1-,2,3 and should now be the champion ,

Im surprised how everyone can't see round 3 wasn't clear cut for either fighter. R3 really should have been a draw if anything.

Now the 49-46 to jones was crazy!

Whatever about the arguments over Jones, I honestly cannot understand how Lauren Murphy beat Andrea Lee, that was a truly horrible decision.

Fall_Guy wrote: »

I assume Kavanagh follows this logic through to his own fighters fights as well? Like the close fight McGregor had with Nate Diaz that ended with Diaz mounting McGregor?

I assume so. Although Diaz won the 5th, not the 4th and 5th like Jones.
Besides, he said he knows that’s not how fights are actually scored.

Seems pointless logic to me. Fight gets stopped in the 1st just like the 5th.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The only thing I can make out of this logic is that if it was a "FIGHT" Jones would be seen as having won,
As in a normal a street fight or TV martial arts fight you'd say the guy who is coming out on top at the end has won the fight .

Sure, but if it was a “FIGHT" like that it wouldn’t have been stopped by the ref after the first round that he lost. The breaks got him out if there multiple times before he got going.

I use an app called verdict to predict fight outcomes and then score rounds immediatley after they end. Gives a good indicator of how fights went.

Looking at the global judging for each round, rounds 1,4 and 5 were all easily scored. 66% of people gaves Reyes round 2 and 60% of people gave Reyes round 3.

walshb wrote: »

Simple: Fight was not a bad decision.

It wasn't a good one either
The majority of people who watch and compete in the sport thought Dom won ,

Rematch is the only fight to make next .

The strikes landed in the third

https://streamable.com/4140q

walshb wrote: »

Simple: Fight was not a bad decision.

I mentioned after he fight that the 4-1 decision will make the decision look worse than was. 4-1?was insane. But giving Jones the 3rd is not remotely on the same level.

But if even the third was say 55:45 Reyes to Jones. Then the chances of all 3 judges scoring it for Jones if less than 10%. Reyes got really unlucky.

Media scores were 14-7 Reyes, which suggests he was an Closer to 2:1 in the third. A poor decision, but not an impossible one imo.

There were much worse decisions on the card. Media score for Martinez we’re 12-1. Lost a split decision.
Andrea Lee has a 12-0 clean sweep in the media. With a lot of 30-27s. And lost a split. That level of variation is worrying.

str8talkingguy wrote: »

In the strict sense of the rules Reyes probably edged it,and i had bet on him,but its not a sport in the strictest sense either,its entertainment first and a sport second and Reyes and fighters should be aware of that by now and can hardly complain.

He spent a fair bit of the fight being walked down and i think its optimistic bordering on naivety to expect to take the title from an unbeaten all time great,whos one of the biggest draws the UFC got when he spent the last round on his bike like he did.

I understand where you are coming from, but for me I would respectfully disagree.

Whatever about MMA being defined as entertainment or sport, surely that is irrelevant in terms of scoring. Its not scored according to entertainment level. It shouldn't matter who had the most entertaining style or who drew the most oohs and ahhs from the crowd. There is a clear agreed criteria for scoring rounds and at the end of the day that's all that should matter as long as you have competent judges. And when the fight is scored according to those criteria Reyes won pretty definitively.

As for your second paragraph I think its predicated on two myths that should be dispelled. Firstly the "walked down" argument is a reference to the question of who was moving forward more as a factor in scoring. I think some highly knowledgeable authorities and analysts such as John McCarthy (who if im not mistaken actually wrote the rules for scoring) and Luke Thomas pretty definitively disposed of the notion that forward movement and octagon control were valid reasons to score in Jones favour. They pointed out that they are about 4th on the list of considerations, behind factors such as significant strikes and damage etc. and are only meant to be used only as a tie breakers, when other more important factors are equal. In this fight they were not, so forward movement should not be considered as reason to score any round for Jones.

Secondly its irrelevant really how great Jones is or was when it comes to deciding who won or lost. That sort of echoes the logic that to defeat an established champ, its not enough to outscore him but rather you have to definitively beat him on all metrics. This is simply not true. All you need to do is score 1 more point and thats it.

Reyes was robbed in my opinion - not just of a win he deserved but a championship title and a place in history as the first man to beat Jon Jones. Not to mention all the financial rewards and opportunities that would have come with being champion. Christ even the Boss of the company felt he won that fight. I don't think its hyperbole to say that had his hand been raised it would have changed not just the course of his career but even his and his family's lives. Instead all that was taken away by 3 people who should never have been allowed to judge an mma fight. I think he has EVERY right to complain.

str8talkingguy wrote: »

Off course the entertainment aspect has a bearing on the outcome,why did Derek Lewis get his second gift in so many fights.

I could spend all day listing fights where the draw gets the decision and its become far more common since WME took over,its a business first and a sport second and to think otherwise is extremely naive.Its a public traded company,money always comes first,integrity of the sport comes in second.

I don't follow what you mean by "second gift".
Drawn matches have always been avoided. If anything they are more common since WME bought the company. So that point makes no sense.

It's not a publicly traded company, it's private ownership. And yes, WME's goals is profits, jsut like the NFL's goal is profit. But how are you proposing WME used that goal to affect the outcome of the fight.

str8talkingguy wrote: »

I wasn't really saying its fair or right,i was just saying the fighters should be aware this is how the fight game works and if you have been watching mma for a few years,theres plenty of evidence to show you that you can't get on your bike in the last round and expect to take the title of a long time champ.Think GSP/Hendricks,Jones/Gus 1.

Lots of people who watch MMA have no idea how scoring works. Look at the amount of comments scoring the fight as a whole, or by the finish only on twitter and the like.

Scoring is done round by round. Judges fill them out at each break, not at the end. So the last round(s) has no bearing on scoring in 1-3.
If you wins rounds 1,2,3, then you've won before the championship rounds start (baring 10-8s, or docked points). If you take the 5th round off, the judges have no way to take the fight away from you.

str8talkingguy wrote: »

I don't watch as much mma as i used to but its obviously more than you...

Yeah, obviously.

anyone that watched last weekend knows exactly what i mean by the gift Lewis got and if you watched his previous fight while it was closer than the one just gone,but by all previous scoring criteria he lost both them fights,the one with Latifi was a straight up robbery.

Robberies happen. Who has disputed that? There were bigger ones than Lewis at the weekend.
But it's a bit of a leap from robberies to what you are suggesting. Robberies happen because of bad judging.

Its not hard to guess your an establishment guy vote FG all the way, there's no corruption anywhere Banks are honest and all that guff,you should get paid for your shilling.

FG, Banks. WTF are you talking about.
Will FG pay via Bitcoin?

Again i don't think Reyes done enough to take it from the Champ but i am not silly enough to not see that the UFC clearly has judges,commissions and usada in their pockets.They pay their wages so there's a conflict of interest even to begin with but its the fight game popular fighters make more money,its not like other sports where fans turn out for their team no matter what.

The UFC don't pay the judges. Surprised you didn't know that either. Not exactly a secret.

Rigging decisions and fights has gone on since as long as we been watching fights,half of Ali's fights were works,it has to be done because everyone loses specially the ones the fans loves and fighters come along that draw you have to protect them as much as you can because they are your earners.Jones fights often hes not the biggest draw but he regularly draws big and the more he continues to go unbeaten the Mayweather effect takes hold and people keep paying to see him lose.

In the history of combat sports, it's likely that rigged fights have happened. I've never said no fight has ever been rigged.
It's the extent of it you are suggesting that I questioned.

Every judge is every Jones fight, even every Derek Lewis fight.
Who else? Lauren Murphy on the undercard? She must be some powerhouse draw if the UFC are rigging her fights. Wow.
Or maybe she was a 3 for 2 freebie with Jones and Lewis.