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Co-Living Developments

  • 15-01-2021 5:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭


    Don't see a thread on this already. On local facebook pages I'm seeing a lot of opposition to "Co-Living" developments sich as the one discussed in this article https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/co-living-scheme-planned-for-protected-modernist-building-in-dublin-1.4457458

    Opposition clearly shared by a number of city council members and the Government who have banned such schemes in future (where they haven't already started the planning process)
    I don't really understand why? Surely there is a place for good quality co-living schemes. I can easily imagine myself having lived in something like this after I first graduated in my first few years working in the city. It will never be a long term place to live for most (although it could suit single people of any age I'd expect), but I don't see a problem as long as certain minimum standards are met. It should provide good quality, affordable accommodation at the type of density our city needs in a country where such accommodation is in very short supply! 
    Any insight as to why so many are so intrinsically opposed to the very concept? It seems like a no brainer to me that this should be supported. What am I missing?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭newmember2


    Don't see a thread on this already. On local facebook pages I'm seeing a lot of opposition to "Co-Living" developments sich as the one discussed in this article https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/co-living-scheme-planned-for-protected-modernist-building-in-dublin-1.4457458

    Opposition clearly shared by a number of city council members and the Government who have banned such schemes in future (where they haven't already started the planning process)
    I don't really understand why? Surely there is a place for good quality co-living schemes. I can easily imagine myself having lived in something like this after I first graduated in my first few years working in the city. It will never be a long term place to live for most (although it could suit single people of any age I'd expect), but I don't see a problem as long as certain minimum standards are met. It should provide good quality, affordable accommodation at the type of density our city needs in a country where such accommodation is in very short supply! 
    Any insight as to why so many are so intrinsically opposed to the very concept? It seems like a no brainer to me that this should be supported. What am I missing?

    It would probably work in some place that doesn't have a serious housing shortage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,991 ✭✭✭Caranica


    I did a lot of research on the one in Dun Laoghaire for a project.

    Issues I remember (and there were lots more):

    Rent expected to be close to 2k per month
    All rooms single occupancy only
    No parking
    Kitchen to be shared by 30 something rooms
    Room very small, expected to eat mostly in room
    Next to no storage
    Would have been a nightmare trying to wfh


    Nothing about that is attractive to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    It's a very depressing way if it were allowed to be the future but they're definitely looking at flats or apartment as the way forward, get as many into one small place as possible, cheap labour and nobody will own anything....


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭whatnext


    newmember? wrote: »
    It would probably work in some place that doesn't have a serious housing shortage.

    Are you aware that the people that generally live in co living schemes are predominantly fairly affluent. If they are not in a co living scheme they will be in a one or two bedroom apartment. It is a very efficient way of freeing up apartments. I’ve lived in co living spaces while working overseas. Internationally they are the preferred accommodation for single transient workers. Some people would move out of an apartment into such a scheme and guess what they don’t demolish their previous accommodation.

    You will often see the arguments about the shared kitchen space, but the reality is the kitchens get very little use. I’d say I witnessed less than a dozen meals cooked in all my time in co living (about 14 months all in). And that has nothing to do with the quality of the kitchens and everything to do with the demographics of the people that lived there. The eat at work, eat out a the weekend and devour takeout in between. For most preparing a meal extends to a frozen pizza or cereal and milk.

    A co living scheme accommodating 100 people will mean there are 100 apartments available for someone else.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They're basically modern bedsits, with ensuites and communal kitchens / rec areas (there may be a micro-kitchen in room); but priced like larger apartments for whatever reason.

    There needs to be a replacement for bedsits for those who really can't handle shared houses; but this isn't it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Responder XY


    newmember? wrote: »
    It would probably work in some place that doesn't have a serious housing shortage.

    What's the logic behind that? If this helps create more housing does it not help places with a serious housing shortage.
    Caranica wrote: »
    I did a lot of research on the one in Dun Laoghaire for a project.

    Issues I remember (and there were lots more):

    Rent expected to be close to 2k per month
    All rooms single occupancy only
    No parking
    Kitchen to be shared by 30 something rooms
    Room very small, expected to eat mostly in room
    Next to no storage
    Would have been a nightmare trying to wfh


    Nothing about that is attractive to me.

    Doubt that sounds attractive to anyone, but that's an argument for minimum standards, not one against the concept altogether.


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭whatnext


    Caranica wrote: »
    I did a lot of research on the one in Dun Laoghaire for a project.

    Issues I remember (and there were lots more):

    Rent expected to be close to 2k per month
    All rooms single occupancy only
    No parking
    Kitchen to be shared by 30 something rooms
    Room very small, expected to eat mostly in room
    Next to no storage
    Would have been a nightmare trying to wfh


    Nothing about that is attractive to me.

    They are aimed at a specific demographic and a limited demographic at that. I still believe there is a market for in or around 10,000 such bed units in Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    They should be let go ahead, and if they are so undesirable, then no one will move into them and they will fail.
    If people do move into them, the it will free up the space they previously occupied.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Caranica wrote: »
    I did a lot of research on the one in Dun Laoghaire for a project.

    Issues I remember (and there were lots more):

    Rent expected to be close to 2k per month
    All rooms single occupancy only
    No parking
    Kitchen to be shared by 30 something rooms
    Room very small, expected to eat mostly in room
    Next to no storage
    Would have been a nightmare trying to wfh


    Nothing about that is attractive to me.

    Alot of people living in the city don't need parking, storage space, a spare room or a kitchen, but in some instances are paying for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭whatnext


    L1011 wrote: »
    They're basically modern bedsits, with ensuites and communal kitchens / rec areas (there may be a micro-kitchen in room); but priced like larger apartments for whatever reason.

    There needs to be a replacement for bedsits for those who really can't handle shared houses; but this isn't it.

    They are nothing like bedsits. Far closer to a hotel. The places I stayed in had a cinema room, group activities / organised clubs, a gym, security / concierge and a cleaner.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,594 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Any insight as to why so many are so intrinsically opposed to the very concept? It seems like a no brainer to me that this should be supported. What am I missing?

    Middle class lovlies cannot wrap their head around the fact that not everyone wants to live the way they do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Heebie


    whatnext wrote:
    They are nothing like bedsits. Far closer to a hotel. The places I stayed in had a cinema room, group activities / organised clubs, a gym, security / concierge and a cleaner.


    A fancy bedsit, is still a bedsit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Middle class lovlies cannot wrap their head around the fact that not everyone wants to live the way they do.

    I sure as hell wouldn't think many would like to be sharing a kitchen with 30 others, it's hard enough with just the family.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    I sure as hell wouldn't think many would like to be sharing a kitchen with 30 others, it's hard enough with just the family.....

    As has been repeated countless times since this debacle started, the demographic of these developments have little or no need for a kitchen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    As has been repeated countless times since this debacle started, the demographic of these developments have little or no need for a kitchen.

    How, does the one in fun laoghaire have kitchen in rooms?

    I think they are a terrible idea unless it is the case they're extremely cheap to live in which they aren't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    whatnext wrote: »
    They are nothing like bedsits. Far closer to a hotel. The places I stayed in had a cinema room, group activities / organised clubs, a gym, security / concierge and a cleaner.
    Do nphet know about this ?

    Do tenants have to pay rent when these places are closed down for reasons of publuc health ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    They should be stopped immediately.

    A dangerous race to the bottom


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,812 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Heebie wrote: »
    A fancy bedsit, is still a bedsit.

    And how is a room in a house full of strangers any different?

    A bed in a building with a cinema, gym sounds better than a bed in someone else's home.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Del2005 wrote: »
    And how is a room in a house full of strangers any different?

    A bed in a building with a cinema, gym sounds better than a bed in someone else's home.

    In some cases yes, but is any developments like that here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭deandean


    Expected cost nearly €2k per month? In Dun Laoghaire? ����
    I don't see who will pay this. You can get a nice room in a house share for about €600pm in this area.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,991 ✭✭✭Caranica


    How, does the one in fun laoghaire have kitchen in rooms?

    I think they are a terrible idea unless it is the case they're extremely cheap to live in which they aren't.

    Kettle and toaster. Was supposed to have a microwave but there were fire concerns so they were removed iirc (this may have been 2 ring hob - if so microwaves retained).
    deandean wrote: »
    Expected cost nearly €2k per month? In Dun Laoghaire? ����
    I don't see who will pay this. You can get a nice room in a house share for about €600pm in this area.

    Aimed at people coming in from overseas on 3-6 month contract to the likes of Microsoft apparently


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    whatnext wrote: »
    They are nothing like bedsits. Far closer to a hotel. The places I stayed in had a cinema room, group activities / organised clubs, a gym, security / concierge and a cleaner.

    They're a single (occupancy) bed in a single room with a micro-kitchen and an ensuite. That's basically a bedsit; just because its decorated nicer with better furniture doesn't change it.

    Cinema room, group activities etc makes it sound more like a prison than a hotel.

    If they're being built to target short term rental markets they absolutely and utterly should not qualify for SHD protection as they are not an urgent requirement like conventional housing. Let them use normal planning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,017 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    These developments were conceived and funded with a pre Covid view of the working world

    All they will be fit for now is revised direct provision settings


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,594 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I sure as hell wouldn't think many would like to be sharing a kitchen with 30 others, it's hard enough with just the family.....

    Thank you for providing a great example of the point I am making.

    To spell it out: Not Everyone Cooks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Thank you for providing a great example of the point I am making.

    To spell it out: Not Everyone Cooks.

    So..if just half of the 30 cook.....then it's way worse than sharing a kitchen with your family?

    What's your point?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭TheSheriff


    deandean wrote: »
    Expected cost nearly €2k per month? In Dun Laoghaire? ����
    I don't see who will pay this. You can get a nice room in a house share for about €600pm in this area.

    If you've ever moved cities for work, this kind of set up would be ideal.

    I've moved for a 3 month period for work before and I would have been delighted with a co-living development.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Modern day tenaments


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I actually know one of the last people to have lived in a tenament.....

    What utter sh1t do people need to be treated as....

    Why bother working when one can have kid after kid after kid and get paid, fuel allowance, back to school, hap or free housing altogether, medical, scratcher payment etc etc etc.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    They should be let go ahead, and if they are so undesirable, then no one will move into them and they will fail.
    If people do move into them, the it will free up the space they previously occupied.

    and let the people decide ?

    thats not the left wing way


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭endofrainbow


    I personally know of one such development which is a large multi bedroomed house converted into a co-living arrangement.

    It has a large kitchen, no living area, 1 bathroom per 2 rooms. They're paying top dollar and described it as living in a glorified hostel.


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