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A few simple separation questions

  • 08-01-2020 1:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 5


    Hi there - new to this but full of great information

    Situation in a nutshell: Going through separation. Moved out of family home 2 years ago. Three quite young children (but all school age). Wife seems to be refusing to work and expecting me to pay extortionate rent, the family mortgage and additional for the children on top as well as looking for half my pension. Were doing mediation but wife gave up and instead served Judicial Separation summons upon me. Can't afford legal fees, but soldiering on.

    My questions are:

    1. Has anyone attended a settlement meeting and is it a worthwhile step before full Court?

    2. Anyone any experience of forcing family home sale when the equity would allow both parties to buy? In my wife's case likely for cash to extinguish the mortgage and in my case would avoid throwing rent away every month

    3. Should we be looking to go directly for divorce now the new legislation is in?

    Thanks for any thoughts.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    BrokeDaddy wrote: »
    Hi there - new to this but full of great information

    Situation in a nutshell: Going through separation. Moved out of family home 2 years ago. Three quite young children (but all school age). Wife seems to be refusing to work and expecting me to pay extortionate rent, the family mortgage and additional for the children on top as well as looking for half my pension. Were doing mediation but wife gave up and instead served Judicial Separation summons upon me. Can't afford legal fees, but soldiering on.

    My questions are:

    1. Has anyone attended a settlement meeting and is it a worthwhile step before full Court?

    2. Anyone any experience of forcing family home sale when the equity would allow both parties to buy? In my wife's case likely for cash to extinguish the mortgage and in my case would avoid throwing rent away every month

    3. Should we be looking to go directly for divorce now the new legislation is in?

    Thanks for any thoughts.
    To answer 2. The chances of a judge allowing a sale of a family home while the children are in school (18 or 23 if child goes to college.)are so slim I'd stick a tenner on Gerry Adams excepting a knighthood from the queen quicker. So I'd say get that idea out of your head now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 BrokeDaddy


    Nosnon thanks for your reply (and convoluted/unnecessary alternative).

    I think my only chance is her "seeing sense" in that it is in the best financial interest of the entire family unit to sell (even if to the detriment of her luxury). But as you suggest, if she chooses not to, there's likely little I can do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    A way around extortionate maintenance, though it may be considered cutting off your nose to spite your face, is to take a career break or jack in the job. If you have no means to pay extortionate maintenance they you can't and won't have to. Move down the country to somewhere where rent is cheap and after a while get a nice handy low stress job doing whatever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    There's a lot to be said for going straight for a divorce rather than going through the whole thing twice - once for a judicial separation and then again for a divorce.

    Men don't tend to do well in family law in Ireland. I don't see much benefit in giving the system twice the opportunity to screw you over.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    I'd say just accept the demands. What you might gain in winning a victory will be more or less all lost in stress and the equivalent value in legal fees.

    Just pack it all in. Move away and start a new life and leave the old life behind you. Put a lid on the old life and seal it up.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8 JSman2020


    Unfortunately in same position.
    Currently in JS in Family Law Court.
    Ex wants family home, legal fees paid, my pension, barring order etc etc.. (her solicitor is very aggressive in their approach)
    Im unemployed over 1 year and on legal aid.
    My LA barrister seems to be representing at best a court process that panders to the female and at worst is basically a mouth piece for my ex's solicitors case & requests. Considering representing myself, as have never heard of many barristers representing men well in family law. Anyone?
    They seem to represent a process, not really you. The In-Camera rule doe not serve the family at all, just the legal profession as information is hard to come by on other JS Court rulings.

    Questions if ok;
    1- Why did my Ex. file in Circuit Family Law and not District?
    District is cheaper, right and lower maintenance etc. Can it be switched?
    2- Lay litigant-the only person who really knows the facts & figures in detail is me, but I dont know legal process. Any views on self representing?
    3- If all the money is in the family home, surely in Ireland the Court will say sell it and buy 2 small ones?
    4- In Ireland what is the worst case scenario in a full hearing? 60:40 asset split to the female? Surely it would be unjust to leave the man with less than 1/3rd.
    5- In Ireland what is the "average maintenance"? Ive heard about 30% of income, but seems like a big secret and impossible to get actual statistics.
    6- My barrister threatens regularly (to get me to comply with my Ex's high maintenance requests) that if the court believes Ive been anything other than the "Saintly Pope" with my financial declarations or if they view I dissipated money, they will be award my Ex legal fees against me. How is that possible if Im unemployed on LA with no money or other assets? Any experience of this? Possible or very unlikely?
    7- Family loans-the contention in our case. I repaid one ( a legitimate one) when it was clear we were separating. The Court cant force a 3rd party to repay this money back to me or Summons a 3rd Party to a JS?
    8- Vouching. Ive produced already a mountain of paperwork and my EX almost nothing. I get continually sent letters with a loads of 2nd level queries. Are my Ex solicitors allowed to infinitely ask and ask questions or does the system eventually call time on it all, if no hidden money found?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    JSman2020 wrote: »
    Unfortunately in same position.
    Currently in JS in Family Law Court.
    Ex wants family home, legal fees paid, my pension, barring order etc etc.. (her solicitor is very aggressive in their approach)
    Im unemployed over 1 year and on legal aid.
    My LA barrister seems to be representing at best a court process that panders to the female and at worst is basically a mouth piece for my ex's solicitors case & requests. Considering representing myself, as have never heard of many barristers representing men well in family law. Anyone?
    They seem to represent a process, not really you. The In-Camera rule doe not serve the family at all, just the legal profession as information is hard to come by on other JS Court rulings.

    Questions if ok;
    1- Why did my Ex. file in Circuit Family Law and not District?
    District is cheaper, right and lower maintenance etc. Can it be switched?
    2- Lay litigant-the only person who really knows the facts & figures in detail is me, but I dont know legal process. Any views on self representing?
    3- If all the money is in the family home, surely in Ireland the Court will say sell it and buy 2 small ones?
    4- In Ireland what is the worst case scenario in a full hearing? 60:40 asset split to the female? Surely it would be unjust to leave the man with less than 1/3rd.
    5- In Ireland what is the "average maintenance"? Ive heard about 30% of income, but seems like a big secret and impossible to get actual statistics.
    6- My barrister threatens regularly (to get me to comply with my Ex's high maintenance requests) that if the court believes Ive been anything other than the "Saintly Pope" with my financial declarations or if they view I dissipated money, they will be award my Ex legal fees against me. How is that possible if Im unemployed on LA with no money or other assets? Any experience of this? Possible or very unlikely?
    7- Family loans-the contention in our case. I repaid one ( a legitimate one) when it was clear we were separating. The Court cant force a 3rd party to repay this money back to me or Summons a 3rd Party to a JS?
    8- Vouching. Ive produced already a mountain of paperwork and my EX almost nothing. I get continually sent letters with a loads of 2nd level queries. Are my Ex solicitors allowed to infinitely ask and ask questions or does the system eventually call time on it all, if no hidden money found?

    Do ye have children?

    Unlikely the sale of the home will be awarded with kids involved.
    Is your Ex working and you are not?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 JSman2020


    Yes, 2 young children. Most of money in the family home, wife on €50k full time, Im unemployed on welfare 1 year now. Her legal team still pushing for my pension, her legal fees paid etc. etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 JSman2020


    XsApollo wrote: »
    Do ye have children?

    Unlikely the sale of the home will be awarded with kids involved.
    Is your Ex working and you are not?

    I think this is part of the problem in the Ireland JS process.
    It is rare the family home is sold, even it it represents a very unequal split in the assets.
    Most other World Divorce jurisdictions are largely 50/50 in asset splits, as far as I understand. A fair split for all.
    Not Ireland. It seems that quite often the man can be left with a small amount of the assets, whilst the women (still assumed largely in Ireland to be the career) received the home and often high Maintenance awards that is not based on a formula (like other jurisdictions) .
    It is all rapped up in smoke, mirrors, closed camera court and a high legal fees bonanza. Yes it is 2020 in Ireland.
    Any other thoughts out there...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I agree with what XsApollo said about the family home. The welfare of the children is supposed to be paramount when it comes to family law in Ireland.

    Unfortunately this can often mean that the noncustodial parent can end up being sacrificed on the altar of this ideal.

    https://repository.wit.ie/2825/1/thesis_ROS_WITLIB_201405final.pdf is worth a read.

    Male lay litigants seem to fare worst in our family law system with the outcome being as much, if not more, dependant on the vagaries of the judge than the facts of the case.

    You would possibly be better if you could pick your judge rather than your solicitor and barrister.

    It's not unknown for some ethically questionable legal professionals to play the system to accelerate or retard a cases progress so that it ends up before a judge who they know from experience will favour their side more (or the other less).


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