BREXIT... and sending parcels to the UK.

Scotty # · 06-02-2021 12:48am

Kumejima wrote: »

...there is an opportunity for a company serving someone like me.

There isn't though. Not unless they are going to charge you a small fortune. One pallet of one product to one customer has the same amount of paperwork as a full truck of one product to one customer.

There was a shipper on SKY News earlier saying he'd 71 pages of forms to fill out for ONE truck going to France. It's unsustainable for him to keep operating unless he hikes his rates massively.

CelticRambler · 06-02-2021 7:57am

Scotty # wrote: »

There isn't though. Not unless they are going to charge you a small fortune. One pallet of one product to one customer has the same amount of paperwork as a full truck of one product to one customer.

There was a shipper on SKY News earlier saying he'd 71 pages of forms to fill out for ONE truck going to France. It's unsustainable for him to keep operating unless he hikes his rates massively.

Ah, there's a lot of exaggeration there. Yes, one pallet (or even one packet) has the same amount of paperwork as a lorry load of the same product; the 71-pages worth of forms story, though, almost certainly applies to groupage loads.

Someone with Transit van and half a dozen clued-in suppliers exporting on a DDP basis doesn't need to do any more than rock up to Holyhead with one bundle of documents for each pallet/half pallet.

Now you've still got the per-unit transport cost to factor in, but at the end of the day, that's not going to be hugely different to using premium services pre-Brexit.

andrewfaulk · 06-02-2021 12:33pm

The paperwork to import food products from outside the EU is horrible.. They have to be cleared by customs(for duty), the department of Agriculture, Port health and also possibly veterinary. And could involve a regular import SAD, a CVED document(vet form that needs to be filled in advance of arrival) and lot of other paperwork(vet certs, physosanitary certs, certs of origin etc.) The whole process could take 2-3 days, all the while your driver is sitting the port waiting to be released, or your trailer is sitting on quay racking up storage charges(if unaccompanied)..

No man with a van is going to have the know how to do this.. In fact a lot of big companies(DHL etc no accepting food shipments) have chosen to steer clear, as it is a whole specialised area of customs in itself..

I think really it makes shipping food from the UK not worth while for a lot of people, and definately not at the level of half a pallet every once in a while.. Not sure how well the syrup sells, but it would want to sell a couple of pallets a week with decent margins at a minimum to be worth continuing to stock post Brexit

Kumejima · 06-02-2021 4:21pm

Thanks for the input lads. I'll remain optimistic that a solution can be found. Because it sure as hell doesn't look good and I've learned pessimism really doesn't help in such situations.

Is there any government department/website you can recommend me consulting? Just so I know bureaucracy wise what hoops I have to jump through.

Darc19 · 07-02-2021 8:55am

CelticRambler wrote: »

Ah, there's a lot of exaggeration there. Yes, one pallet (or even one packet) has the same amount of paperwork as a lorry load of the same product; the 71-pages worth of forms story, though, almost certainly applies to groupage loads.

Someone with Transit van and half a dozen clued-in suppliers exporting on a DDP basis doesn't need to do any more than rock up to Holyhead with one bundle of documents for each pallet/half pallet.

Now you've still got the per-unit transport cost to factor in, but at the end of the day, that's not going to be hugely different to using premium services pre-Brexit.

If only it was that easy.

Have you the taric codes for each item on each pallet?

Have you the country of origin of each item too?

Do some of those countries attract a duty for their goods coming into the EU?

If any of this is not correct, the entire load is rejected

CelticRambler · 07-02-2021 9:36am

Darc19 wrote: »

If only it was that easy.

Have you the taric codes for each item on each pallet?

Have you the country of origin of each item too?

Do some of those countries attract a duty for their goods coming into the EU?

If any of this is not correct, the entire load is rejected

The solution I'm suggesting for Kumejima's problem *is* that simple: smaller vehicles carrying a small number of pallets of GB-origin products, with full responsibility for the paperwork, duties , etc taken by the supplier. If any pallet is found not to be compliant when it arrives at the port, it gets offloaded and the rest delivered as promised.

This is Brexit's new reality, so it's up to exporters and importers to get their paperwork in order, not hauliers/couriers. That situation is going to get *worse* in April and again in July, as the regulations are tightened, so the smaller operators have an opportunity to carve out a market for themselves: a smaller "mix" per load from a network of clued up customers meaning much reduced risk of delay.

golfman · 07-02-2021 10:36am

I just tried to organise a delivery of a 15kg box of goods to an Amazon FBA fulfilment centre in UK. What used to be €13 with DPD is now €33 with UPS. DPD won’t even quote for it.

We were already at a disadvantage with margin vs UK competitors shipping at €13. Now it’s hardly worth the effort unless it’s really high ROI product.

Darc19 · 07-02-2021 4:00pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

The solution I'm suggesting for Kumejima's problem *is* that simple: smaller vehicles carrying a small number of pallets of GB-origin products, with full responsibility for the paperwork, duties , etc taken by the supplier. If any pallet is found not to be compliant when it arrives at the port, it gets offloaded and the rest delivered as promised.

This is Brexit's new reality, so it's up to exporters and importers to get their paperwork in order, not hauliers/couriers. That situation is going to get *worse* in April and again in July, as the regulations are tightened, so the smaller operators have an opportunity to carve out a market for themselves: a smaller "mix" per load from a network of clued up customers meaning much reduced risk of delay.

Unfortunately it's not that simple and that's the problem.

You have to get preclearance for your full load. If any part of that is found to be incorrect at the port, the full load is rejected.

Yes you can take the offending pallet off, but you then need a new preclearance for the load as the load is now different.

The good news is the bigger freight forwarders are now inspecting themselves and only loading pallets that conform fully with regulations. Certainly I've found deliveries improve in the past two weeks.

I think July date is for importing into the UK. Til then it's a more relaxed regime.

Darc19 · 07-02-2021 4:05pm

golfman wrote: »

I just tried to organise a delivery of a 15kg box of goods to an Amazon FBA fulfilment centre in UK. What used to be €13 with DPD is now €33 with UPS. DPD won’t even quote for it.

We were already at a disadvantage with margin vs UK competitors shipping at €13. Now it’s hardly worth the effort unless it’s really high ROI product.

Dpd will need you to sign up with them fully, register for UK vat and enter all the taric codes before shipping. This is needed for each individual box. Hence many simply don't ship to the UK

€33 is not too bad from ups if it's one off parcels

golfman · 07-02-2021 4:22pm

Darc19 wrote: »

€33 is not too bad from ups if it's one off parcels

Well its a 250% increase so it is pretty bad IMO. I use a fulfilment centre in the UK for product sourced in UK and you're talking sub £4 per box delivery.

The Soup Dragon · 15-02-2021 3:50pm

If sending a parcel by courier DHL TNT FEDEX UPS etc from ROI to mainland Europe by road, does this go from Cork to France and then onwards?

I was talking to a guy who told me it was all routed via the UK which seems weird.

Scotty # · 15-02-2021 4:10pm

The Soup Dragon wrote: »

If sending a parcel by courier DHL TNT FEDEX UPS etc from ROI to mainland Europe by road, does this go from Cork to France and then onwards?

I was talking to a guy who told me it was all routed via the UK which seems weird.

It used to be all routed through the UK but since Brexit they've all opened up direct routes to France.

The Soup Dragon · 15-02-2021 4:23pm

Scotty # wrote: »

It used to be all routed through the UK but since Brexit they've all opened up direct routes to France.

That is very good news

Scotty # · 25-02-2021 10:44am

Quick question...

If you had an IE VAT No and a corresponding IE EORI No and have now gotten a UK VAT No.. do you still use the IE EORI number with that new UK VAT No???

paddylonglegs · 25-02-2021 12:00pm

Scotty # wrote: »

Quick question...

If you had an IE VAT No and a corresponding IE EORI No and have now gotten a UK VAT No.. do you still use the IE EORI number with that new UK VAT No???

Oh god I don’t know the answer, but I do know I need to learn about that. Head in the sand for too long...

andrewfaulk · 25-02-2021 7:37pm

Scotty # wrote: »

Quick question...

If you had an IE VAT No and a corresponding IE EORI No and have now gotten a UK VAT No.. do you still use the IE EORI number with that new UK VAT No???

For U.K. to IE import clearances? You question isn’t very clear?

Scotty # · 25-02-2021 8:35pm

andrewfaulk wrote: »

For U.K. to IE import clearances? You question isn’t very clear?

Hi Andrew, no, I'm talking about shipping IE to UK.

We've always needed an EORI number to ship outside the EU. So we have an EORI number starting in IE...

Now, post brexit, we need a UK VAT number to send to non VAT customers in the UK.

When sending goods now to the UK, we need to quote our UK VAT number and our EORI number. Will our old IE EORI number suffice or must we now register for a UK EORI number and quote this one?

andrewfaulk · 25-02-2021 9:00pm

Scotty # wrote: »

Hi Andrew, no, I'm talking about shipping IE to UK.

We've always needed an EORI number to ship outside the EU. So we have an EORI number starting in IE...

Now, post brexit, we need a UK VAT number to send to non VAT customers in the UK.

When sending goods now to the UK, we need to quote our UK VAT number and our EORI number. Will our old IE EORI number suffice or must we now register for a UK EORI number and quote this one?

You will need both, an IE EORI would be needed for the export customs from IE to U.K. and a UK EORI would be needed for import customs and vat in the U.K..

But if you already have a U.K. Vat number you are already half way there, and depending on when it was created it might already be registered as an EORI.. You can check by entering your VAT no at
https://www.gov.uk/check-eori-number..

From memory if it isn’t registered as an EORI it can take about 2-3 days but this may be longer post Brexit

Scotty # · 26-02-2021 12:04am

But, the form for shipping only allows entry of one EORI number??

I applied for and received a UK EORI today.

andrewfaulk · 26-02-2021 3:20pm

Scotty # wrote: »

But, the form for shipping only allows entry of one EORI number??

I applied for and received a UK EORI today.

I would guess the UK EORI, as VAT is only payable on imports, not on exports..

Scotty # · 03-03-2021 11:05pm

Called DPD about it in the end. They weren't sure either but guessed the UK one.

Sent 9 orders out yesterday. Charged all 9 UK vat. 3 under £135 and the rest over.

All the ones over £135 got texts today seeking payment of vat and clearance charge (£5).

Called DPD again, and they said yea, UK customs are charging the VAT the far end whether it's already been paid or not. In one case they were undercharging VAT. A typo I presume. Emailed all affected customers to explain the situation and of the ones who got back to me, they've all agreed to pay via the text and I'll refund them the vat I've charged.

I wonder are they still paying the VAT under my VAT number? I didn't collect their VAT numbers as I was charging them.

atahuapla · 22-03-2021 10:47pm

golfman wrote: »

I just tried to organise a delivery of a 15kg box of goods to an Amazon FBA fulfilment centre in UK. What used to be €13 with DPD is now €33 with UPS. DPD won’t even quote for it.

We were already at a disadvantage with margin vs UK competitors shipping at €13. Now it’s hardly worth the effort unless it’s really high ROI product.

Was there much extra paperwork?
I need to replenish my Amazon stock soon. Haven’t done so since 2020 so not sure how much of a headache it will be.

BREXIT... and sending parcels to the UK.

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