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The story of what led bobby sands to join the IRA

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Comments

  • #212
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    jack923 wrote: »
    I'm still curious if your going to back up your allegations as you clearly ignored my last post. I guess it's easier to just say I made all this up without saying what I made up as I said already I will gladly address anything you think I made up.

    I thought you said you wouldn't be replying? Make your mind up. You made up a fake number of civilian deaths the provos were responsible for, and you made up a ridiculous statistic as to IRA bombs that harmed no-one. And given that you clearly don't understand what either AP or the RUC are/were, you aren't really shining out as any sort of credible narrator in general.


  • #213
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    alastair wrote: »
    I thought you said you wouldn't be replying? Make your mind up. You made up a fake number of civilian deaths the provos were responsible for, and you made up a ridiculous statistic as to IRA bombs that harmed no-one. And given that you clearly don't understand what either AP or the RUC are/were, you aren't really shining out as any sort of credible narrator in general.

    I know the RUC was the police force be it an armed one or not I read it wrong I thought she was addressing members of the security forces I only read the first couple of lines as I got the jist.

    What statistics exactly? Surely you didn't take my 99.99999% statistic seriously did you? And I can't recall saying anything about the statistics of the PIRA I may be wrong but tell me what it was and I'll address it.


  • #214
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,802 ✭✭✭enricoh


    maryishere wrote: »
    Sands was an IRA member. Sometimes IRA members were not popular in neighbourhoods or workplaces if they set up someone for a shot in the back when off duty, or threw a spanner in the workers, or told a comrade in the IRA he found out that a brother of so and so was in the security forces and lived at xyz.
    He and thousands of other Catholics were cleansed from there areas before the ira campaign began. He was intimidated out of his apprenticeship at the ripe old age of 16.
    Should they have done a Dalai lama approach to being burnt out, gerrymandering Etc and the protestant mobs and the cops would get bored of kicking the crap out of them?


  • #215
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    If he was an IRA member, how do you know exactly when he first passing valuable information to the Republican movement? I do not know what was said or not said at tea breaks at the place where he worked, for example. Neither do you.

    He worked in a Protestant workplace so I doubt they were discussing the best way to kill a british soldier over a cup of tea at lunch.

    I know the IRA only came back in 1969 and he wasn't a member when he was burned out of his home at 10 years old which you were saying whatever bad happened to him was because he was in the IRA.

    You have no credibility if the loyalists who threatened him out of his workplace with a gun knew or even thought he was an IRA member they would have shot him on the spot.


  • #216
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    jack923 wrote: »
    I know the RUC was the police force be it an armed one or not I read it wrong I thought she was addressing members of the security forces I only read the first couple of lines as I got the jist.

    What statistics exactly? Surely you didn't take my 99.99999% statistic seriously did you? And I can't recall saying anything about the statistics of the PIRA I may be wrong but tell me what it was and I'll address it.

    Not to worry. I'm not taking you seriously at all.


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  • #217
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    alastair wrote: »
    Not to worry. I'm not taking you seriously at all.

    I'm not taking you serious either accusing me of making up a ton of statistics and then can't say what I made up? I assume what you meant was that 99.99999% statistic which obviously wasn't being serious and now you don't know what to say.


  • #218
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    jack923 wrote: »
    I'm not taking you serious either accusing me of making up a ton of statistics and then can't say what I made up? I assume what you meant was that 99.99999% statistic which obviously wasn't being serious and now you don't know what to say.

    I told you precisely what you made up. Not my problem if you can't account for what you choose to post.


  • #219
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    alastair wrote: »
    I told you precisely what you made up. Not my problem if you can't account for what you choose to post.

    The PIRA civilian death statistics is is at least 500 so probably about 550 you may be thinking of all republican paramilitaries which would obviously bring the deaths up much higher there is another statistic which is at 600 which includes off duty security forces.

    I then minused off politicians, spies, alleged criminals etc. Which would put it in the 300s how is this wrong? It's a fair estimate in my opinion with it being no less than 300 and being no more than 400 possibly 450. The 500 is true you will find that anywhere you look and the other part was an educated estimated by knocking off the spies etc. That were killed I certainly wouldn't count a spy as a civilian.


  • #220
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    alastair wrote: »
    I told you precisely what you made up. Not my problem if you can't account for what you choose to post.

    I should have said it was no less than 300 and no more than 450 no that it was in the 300s but you definitely over dramatised it.


  • #221
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    maryishere wrote: »
    And indeed there are scumbags on both sides who burn flags. Most politicians tend to stay away from such things though. One notable exception being Charles Haughey, who burnt a union jack in Dublin many years ago. (1945 as far as I remember).
    1945 lol. There are many instances of nationalist politicians condemning it and none where they condone it. On the other hand there are many instances of unionist politicians condoning it. Candidly I think you know that but are playing the stupid card.
    maryishere wrote: »
    And have you a link? What makes you think its 95/5, and not 70/30 or 98/2? Many bonfires do not feature the burning of flags. Not all areas have bonfires.
    No its my guesstimation. There are hundreds if not thousands of 11th night bonnies and a lot of these if not most of them would have Irish flegs on them. There are but a mere handful of internment bonnies (mainly in Derry) and not all of those would have Union flegs on them. Therefore I think its safe to assume that the green fleg burning's are infinitely more prevalent than blue fleg burning's. Again, candidly, I think you know this too - as does anyone - and you're again playing dumb.
    maryishere wrote: »
    Have you a link for that claim?
    Don't believe that either no? On this thread alone there have been two photos/videos of unionist MLA's who either said they've no problem with burning the Irish fleg or have had their picture taken beside such a bonnie. If you ever listen to shows such as Nolan on radio you would quickly realise that trying to get a condemnation out of PUL politicos is like pulling teeth. On the other hand last year Sinn Fein MLA's condemned outright the internment fleg burnings. Also you will not find one who condones it..

    maryishere wrote: »
    Generally and historically speaking, yes. Compared to Germans, Japanese, Russians etc.
    Just as well we're not comparing them to the lofty standards of the Nazis, the Red Army and Kamikaze's then. We're comparing them to the IRA in which case they make the IRA look positively conscientious in comparison.

    Do you finally accept the grotesque crimes that were committed in Kenya?
    maryishere wrote: »
    In Gulf war 2, the British wore soft hats and tried to help the locals by building clean water supplies etc.
    I'm sure they were very grateful after their Country was bombed to smithereens :rolleyes:
    maryishere wrote: »
    The British and Americans reached Bagdad without the need to butcher anyone, and were welcomed.
    Like a dose of the clap
    maryishere wrote: »
    And the current carnage in Iraq is largely between different sects of Islam.
    The current carnage! The carnage was unleashed by an illegal invasion and occupation by the UK/US! Hundreds of thousands are dead as a direct result of it! Even the most ardent supporters of that war have now conceded it was a disaster. But not our Mary!
    maryishere wrote: »
    Thousands of Iraqis are seeking entry / asylum in the UK, not one British or Irish person is seeking asylum in Iraq afaik.
    Are you insane??? Why do you think that is!!! Their Country has been destroyed!

    Good God Mary, in the words of John McEnroe, you cannot be serious.


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  • #222
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    jack923 wrote: »
    The PIRA civilian death statistics is is at least 500 so probably about 550 you may be thinking of all republican paramilitaries which would obviously bring the deaths up much higher there is another statistic which is at 600 which includes off duty security forces.

    I then minused off politicians, spies, alleged criminals etc. Which would put it in the 300s how is this wrong? It's a fair estimate in my opinion with it being no less than 300 and being no more than 400 possibly 450. The 500 is true you will find that anywhere you look and the other part was an educated estimated by knocking off the spies etc. That were killed I certainly wouldn't count a spy as a civilian.
    It's this kind of nonsense that I'm referring to. The Provos killed 512 civilians. You can't just pull figures out of your arse to pretend that this figure is false. Even if you decide that politicians and prison officers are not civilians (which would run counter to your claim that this was a 'war', where both roles are rightfully considered civilian roles), you just reduce the total by 30 or so. 'Alleged' informers or 'criminals' are also civilians, and thankfully it's not your place to determine otherwise. So no, it's 512, not a lower figure you made up.


  • #223
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    jack923 wrote: »
    Here it is I found it for you https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V6HS6jyxoFE

    Sweet Jesus, was that a soldier who video'd it? Fukking psycho


  • #224
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    alastair wrote: »
    It's this kind of nonsense that I'm referring to. The Provos killed 512 civilians. You can't just pull figures out of your arse to pretend that this figure is false. Even if you decide that politicians and prison officers are not civilians (which would run counter to your claim that this was a 'war', where both roles are rightfully considered civilian roles), you just reduce the total by 30 or so. 'Alleged' informers or 'criminals' are also civilians, and thankfully it's not your place to determine otherwise. So no, it's 512, not a lower figure you made up.

    Fair enough if you consider spies civilians and you also didn't include prison officers and politicians etc. then it would be 512 and fair enough. I still stand by that it would be in the 300s and by civilian I meant people who weren't involved in the war and I don't actually consider spies civilians.

    I did actually say though first that it was 500 and then I said the actual number would be about 300 if you deduct so and so.


  • #225
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    Jesus. wrote: »
    1945 lol. There are many instances of nationalist politicians condemning it and none where they condone it. On the other hand there are many instances of unionist politicians condoning it. Candidly I think you know that but are playing the stupid card.

    No its my guesstimation. There are hundreds if not thousands of 11th night bonnies and a lot of these if not most of them would have Irish flegs on them. There are but a mere handful of internment bonnies (mainly in Derry) and not all of those would have Union flegs on them. Therefore I think its safe to assume that the green fleg burning's are infinitely more prevalent than blue fleg burning's. Again, candidly, I think you know this too - as does anyone - and you're again playing dumb.


    Don't believe that either no? On this thread alone there have been two photos/videos of unionist MLA's who either said they've no problem with burning the Irish fleg or have had their picture taken beside such a bonnie. If you ever listen to shows such as Nolan on radio you would quickly realise that trying to get a condemnation out of PUL politicos is like pulling teeth. On the other hand last year Sinn Fein MLA's condemned outright the internment fleg burnings. Also you will not find one who condones it..



    Just as well we're not comparing them to the lofty standards of the Nazis, the Red Army and Kamikaze's then. We're comparing them to the IRA in which case they make the IRA look positively conscientious in comparison.

    Do you finally accept the grotesque crimes that were committed in Kenya?


    I'm sure they were very grateful after their Country was bombed to smithereens :rolleyes:

    Like a dose of the clap

    The current carnage! The carnage was unleashed by an illegal invasion and occupation by the UK/US! Hundreds of thousands are dead as a direct result of it! Even the most ardent supporters of that war have now conceded it was a disaster. But not our Mary!


    Are you insane??? Why do you think that is!!! Their Country has been destroyed!

    Good God Mary, in the words of John McEnroe, you cannot be serious.

    Don't talk to your mother like that.


  • #226
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    jack923 wrote: »
    He worked in a Protestant workplace so I doubt they were discussing the best way to kill a british soldier over a cup of tea at lunch.

    I know the IRA only came back in 1969 and he wasn't a member when he was burned out of his home at 10 years old which you were saying whatever bad happened to him was because he was in the IRA.

    You have no credibility if the loyalists who threatened him out of his workplace with a gun knew or even thought he was an IRA member they would have shot him on the spot.

    I do not know the exact details of what REALLY happened in Sands background. Certainly bad things happened on both sides. I do know however the spin extremist Republicans put on things...and as he was an IRA "hero", I am not surprised Republicans would say he was intimidated out of his workplace, his family were burnt out etc. If he simply was not a good worker, or if he was caught "throwing a spanner in the works" or if he passed info to the IRA or extremist Republicans when he was employed, that would not sound so good, would it?
    One thing we do know about Sands was that he had the choice to live or die : a choice that was denied to many of the victims of the organisation of which he was a member.
    jack923 wrote: »
    He worked in a Protestant workplace so I doubt they were discussing the best way to kill a british soldier over a cup of tea at lunch.
    I doubt it as well, but at least they gave him a job to let him prove himself.


  • #227
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    I do not know the exact details of what REALLY happened in Sands background. Certainly bad things happened on both sides. I do know however the spin extremist Republicans put on things...and as he was an IRA "hero", I am not surprised Republicans would say he was intimidated out of his workplace, his family were burnt out etc. If he simply was not a good worker, or if he was caught "throwing a spanner in the works" or if he passed info to the IRA or extremist Republicans when he was employed, that would not sound so good, would it?
    One thing we do know about Sands was that he had the choice to live or die : a choice that was denied to many of the victims of the organisation of which he was a member.

    There is literally no denying he was burnt out of his home it's true because it is true. He was not just an IRA hero he was an Irish hero.

    Not republicans who said he was forced out of his workplace it was his former protestant co workers. What information are you talking about? You're just trying to make up anything you can to make Bobby sound evil and that everything bad that happened to his family was because of him.

    He was simply not a good worker so he had a gun put to his head and was told his workplace was off limits to Irish? Which his former protestant co workers will/did vouch for.


  • #228
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    I do not know the exact details of what REALLY happened in Sands background. Certainly bad things happened on both sides. I do know however the spin extremist Republicans put on things...and as he was an IRA "hero", I am not surprised Republicans would say he was intimidated out of his workplace, his family were burnt out etc. If he simply was not a good worker, or if he was caught "throwing a spanner in the works" or if he passed info to the IRA or extremist Republicans when he was employed, that would not sound so good, would it?
    One thing we do know about Sands was that he had the choice to live or die : a choice that was denied to many of the victims of the organisation of which he was a member.


    I doubt it as well, but at least they gave him a job to let him prove himself.

    Yes fair play to the person who gave him the job but unfortunately it didn’t last.


  • #229
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    jack923 wrote: »
    Not republicans who said he was forced out of his workplace it was his former protestant co workers.

    Did they tell you why? You never hear of anPhoblacht, and you thought the RUC was part of the British army, but maybe Sands workmates told you why they forced out our hero?


  • #230
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    Did they tell you why? You never hear of anPhoblacht, and you thought the RUC was part of the British army, but maybe Sands workmates told you why they forced out our hero?

    The an Phoblocht reply was meant to be a smart reply and the RUC thing you had a long list which I didnt read since I got the jist and also why do you seem intent on making any form of discrimination against catholics to be made up?


  • #231
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    Did they tell you why? You never hear of anPhoblacht, and you thought the RUC was part of the British army, but maybe Sands workmates told you why they forced out our hero?

    What have you got against catholics?


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  • #232
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    jack923 wrote: »
    The an Phoblocht reply was meant to be a smart reply
    No it was not, you did not know of it. You were asked more than once.

    jack923 wrote: »
    and the RUC thing you had a long list which I didnt read since I got the jist
    ;)
    At least you learnt something today, the RUC was not part of the British army. You probably got confused with the UDR.
    jack923 wrote: »
    and also why do you seem intent on making any form of discrimination against catholics to be made up?
    Dunno what you mean, of course there was discrimination against Catholics. Even Peter Robinson said that decades ago, the north was a "cold house for Catholics". I have Catholic relations in N.I. They were not discriminated against, but no doubt it happened to some others.


  • #233
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    jack923 wrote: »
    Don't talk to your mother like that.

    Sorry :o


  • #234
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    No it was not, you did not know of it. You were asked more than once.



    ;)
    At least you learnt something today, the RUC was not part of the British army. You probably got confused with the UDR.


    Dunno what you mean, of course there was discrimination against Catholics. Even Peter Robinson said that decades ago, the north was a "cold house for Catholics". I have Catholic relations in N.I. They were not discriminated against, but no doubt it happened to some others.

    Nice anecdote there.

    Yeah maybe I got confused with the UVF or any loyalist paramilitary. you know what I meant or what I didn't.


  • #235
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    maryishere wrote: »
    One thing we do know about Sands was that he had the choice to live or die : a choice that was denied to many of the victims of the organisation of which he was a member.

    You do realise that could be said of any British soldier?


  • #236
    billie1b
    Registered Users Posts: 3,804 ✭✭✭billie1b


    alastair wrote: »
    Not to worry. I'm not taking you seriously at all.

    I dont think anyone is!!


  • #237
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Mod Note:
    As there have been a number of posts that can be deemed uncivil and breaching board's guidelines, time now to close this thread as the discussion looks to have run its course.


This discussion has been closed.
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