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26-05-2019, 01:57   #16
J_E
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Originally Posted by JackTaylorFan View Post
Honestly, nothing about starting a thread like this, denotes OP is okay with any of this. More accurate to say still working through it.
I think you are being quite unfair on OP who is expressing their thoughts with an open mind and heart. Be kind and understanding, as they are. This is a new experience for them and they are looking for honest advice, not militant criticism and wrist-slapping.
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26-05-2019, 05:14   #17
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I think you are being quite unfair on OP who is expressing their thoughts with an open mind and heart. Be kind and understanding, as they are. This is a new experience for them and they are looking for honest advice, not militant criticism and wrist-slapping.
Hardly militant to refute the claim made by a poster that OP is absolutely at peace with this - when this thread is evidence enough they are far from it. That is, if any of this story is even genuine.
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26-05-2019, 16:32   #18
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Hardly militant to refute the claim made by a poster that OP is absolutely at peace with this - when this thread is evidence enough they are far from it. That is, if any of this story is even genuine.
The OP is the one who is saying he is okay with it. You're the one who is deciding that the OP simply must have a problem with it, no matter what he says.

Besides, even if the OP was struggling with this, many people struggle with their sexuality, some of them quite late in life. If a guy sleeps with another guy and questions his sexuality, that doesn't mean he is homophobic. It's his sexuality which is in question. If a man sleeps with a trans person and questions his sexuality, because a lack of understanding of the distinction between sexuality and gender, that doesn't mean he has a problem with trans people or is transphobic, which you appear to want to infer from the OP. It's a person questioning their own self-perception, and the labels they've applied to themselves.

I agree with the other poster. You are being militant and belligerent by bringing up how the word ladyboy is horrible (even though the use was self-referential) when it has nothing to do with the OP. You were the one who brought up how a straight guy couldn't get past what it meant for him to be dating a trans person and that it's selfish and hurtful - it's completely irrelevant to the OP. He's not treating his paramour badly or doing that to her. How about instead of telling him it's selfish and hurtful, you give him some useful advice about it?

And then you've the neck to say you doubt it's true, on thread, which you know is poor form.

Last edited by wiggle16; 26-05-2019 at 16:48. Reason: thought better of it
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26-05-2019, 19:25   #19
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Originally Posted by wiggle16 View Post
The OP is the one who is saying he is okay with it. You're the one who is deciding that the OP simply must have a problem with it, no matter what he says.

Besides, even if the OP was struggling with this, many people struggle with their sexuality, some of them quite late in life. If a guy sleeps with another guy and questions his sexuality, that doesn't mean he is homophobic. It's his sexuality which is in question. If a man sleeps with a trans person and questions his sexuality, because a lack of understanding of the distinction between sexuality and gender, that doesn't mean he has a problem with trans people or is transphobic, which you appear to want to infer from the OP. It's a person questioning their own self-perception, and the labels they've applied to themselves.

I agree with the other poster. You are being militant and belligerent by bringing up how the word ladyboy is horrible (even though the use was self-referential) when it has nothing to do with the OP. You were the one who brought up how a straight guy couldn't get past what it meant for him to be dating a trans person and that it's selfish and hurtful - it's completely irrelevant to the OP. He's not treating his paramour badly or doing that to her. How about instead of telling him it's selfish and hurtful, you give him some useful advice about it?

And then you've the neck to say you doubt it's true, on thread, which you know is poor form.
Seriously, you don't post **** like this, unless there is an issue. And if OP was as okay with it as you would like to believe, he wouldn't have posted here in the first place. A partner worried about what friends and family are gonna think of you for dating a trans person? You seriously don't think that has an effect on the actual trans person in a relationship? Get real.

Also, I made a salient point about the dehumanizing term "ladyboy". I consider that educating OP.

Also, I never referred to the op as transphobic, not once. I think you need to go back and read the thread.
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26-05-2019, 22:03   #20
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Seriously, you don't post **** like this, unless there is an issue. And if OP was as okay with it as you would like to believe, he wouldn't have posted here in the first place. A partner worried about what friends and family are gonna think of you for dating a trans person? You seriously don't think that has an effect on the actual trans person in a relationship? Get real.

Also, I made a salient point about the dehumanizing term "ladyboy". I consider that educating OP.

Also, I never referred to the op as transphobic, not once. I think you need to go back and read the thread.
And what is that issue then, as you see it?

Yes, he is worried. Because his family will have an issue with his partner being a trans person. Not him. That's what he's worried about. Other people's reactions. The person he is dating doesn't know about it, as far as we are aware - how can it have an effect on her? And if it was having an effect on her, how will a factoid about the etymology of the word "ladyboy", and projecting your own poor treatment by a straight guy into this situation, help remedy that?

You consider that educating the OP, seriously? How supercilious can you get? It's not relevant. You wouldn't consider giving advice based upon your experiences to be educating the OP, no?
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26-05-2019, 23:45   #21
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And what is that issue then, as you see it?

...and projecting your own poor treatment by a straight guy into this situation, help remedy that?

...

...You wouldn't consider giving advice based upon your experiences to be educating the OP, no?
At this point... I honestly don't know what you want from me here... This is some deep level cognitive dissonance you have going on.

Also, use of words like supercilious. How ironic.
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27-05-2019, 00:05   #22
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At this point... I honestly don't know what you want from me here.
To outline the issue you say the OP has. But I don't think I am going to get that from you.

Yes, it is supercilious and condescending to say that your salient point about the etymology of "ladyboy" will educate the OP. It assumes the OP doesn't know it's derisory. Everyone knows it is.

Anyway OP, if you are still reading, best of luck, and don't worry about labels.
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27-05-2019, 00:20   #23
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To outline the issue you say the OP has. But I don't think I am going to get that from you.
My take on all this: OP is ashamed of their attraction to a trans woman, despite their protestations to the contrary. It's as simple as that, really. They can work on it, sure. But if they are this hesitant about telling family members about it, it's not a good sign. And well, forgive me for thinking the woman in questions deserves better than that.

Also, saying things like "you don't need to tell people" implies it's some kind of dirty little secret. It's toxic as **** and rooted in transphobia on a societal level.

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...about the etymology of "ladyboy" will educate the OP. It assumes the OP doesn't know it's derisory. Everyone knows it is.
You really believe everyone knows that, huh? Really? Wow! Then you are, indeed, clueless.
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27-05-2019, 00:32   #24
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Then you are, indeed, clueless.
You don't need remarks like this to get your point across JackTaylorFan, it's not helpful
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27-05-2019, 00:34   #25
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My take on all this: OP is ashamed of their attraction to a trans woman, despite their protestations to the contrary. It's as simple as that, really. They can work on it, sure. But if they are this hesitant about telling family members about it, it's not a good sign. And well, forgive me for thinking the woman in questions deserves better than that.
I can't say whether the OP is ashamed or not. But neither can you. The fact that the OP is hesitant to tell family doesn't by itself say anything about the OP, it is a reflection on his family's attitudes. In the same way that a gay or trans person being hesitant to tell their family about their being gay or trans is based upon how the family may react and not upon shame.
I don't see it as a good or a bad sign for them, because it's not a reflection on the OP.

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Also, saying things like "you don't need to tell people" implies it's some kind of dirty little secret. It's toxic as **** and rooted in transphobia on a societal level.
It's not clear if you are directing this at me, but I never said anything like this. I said her business is no one else's business. Which goes for everyone, trans and cis.

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You really believe everyone knows that, huh? Really? Wow! Then you are, indeed, clueless.
Really don't get why you need to make petty little jabs like that. And yes I do believe everyone knows it's derisory, you said as much yourself when you gave your etymology of the word.

Anyway I'm out. Good luck OP.
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27-05-2019, 00:50   #26
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And yes I do believe everyone knows it's derisory, you said as much yourself when you gave your etymology of the word.
Nah, being someone who clearly has far more firsthand experience and all-round knowledge on this subject, than you (and possibly every other person in this forum), many people clearly don't know these words are dehumanizing. Some people still think terms like "Shemale" and "tranny" are acceptable, FFS. What world are you living in, honestly...
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27-05-2019, 01:17   #27
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Nah, being someone who clearly has far more firsthand experience and all-round knowledge on this subject, than you (and possibly every other person in this forum), many people clearly don't know these words are dehumanizing. Some people still think terms like "Shemale" and "tranny" are acceptable, FFS. What world are you living in, honestly...
Well, you don't sell yourself short, do you? You know absolutely nothing about me or my background or my experiences. I think you need to learn to draw fewer inferences from the scant information you're presented with before you make sweeping statements. Except I don't think it would suit you to do that and admit that you are an authority on yourself and nothing else, just like the rest of us.

I said the word was derisory - everyone knows it is because, as you have said yourself, it is dehumanising. No one, in the West at least, uses this word to refer to transwomen in non-derisory speech. As an aside, your explanation of it is inaccurate - it is the rendering into English of a (derisory) Thai word, kathoey, used to refer to transwomen in Thailand as an exonym (ie, they do not usually use it to refer to themselves. They refer to themselves as women). It's not the result of "Imperialism". No doubt you will elaborate on this in some respect.

I don't know anyone, no matter how ignorant, who thinks it's okay to refer to trans people as shemales or trannies, in the same way that no one thinks it's okay to refer to gay men as f*ggots. You're conflating bigotry with acceptability. The people who use these words don't care if trans people find them offensive, they don't care that it's not okay. They use them because they are dehumanising and offensive.

If you want to reframe the topic of the discussion we've had so far so that you can manufacture the argument you would quite clearly prefer to be having with me, don't bother, because I'm not dragging this thread any further off-topic than we already have.

Slán.
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27-05-2019, 01:33   #28
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Well, you don't sell yourself short, do you? You know absolutely nothing about me or my background or my experiences. I think you need to learn to draw fewer inferences from the scant information you're presented with before you make sweeping statements. Except I don't think it would suit you to do that and admit that you are an authority on yourself and nothing else, just like the rest of us.

I said the word was derisory - everyone knows it is because, as you have said yourself, it is dehumanising. No one, in the West at least, uses this word to refer to transwomen in non-derisory speech. As an aside, your explanation of it is inaccurate - it is the rendering into English of a (derisory) Thai word, kathoey, used to refer to transwomen in Thailand as an exonym (ie, they do not usually use it to refer to themselves. They refer to themselves as women). It's not the result of "Imperialism". No doubt you will elaborate on this in some respect.

I don't know anyone, no matter how ignorant, who thinks it's okay to refer to trans people as shemales or trannies, in the same way that no one thinks it's okay to refer to gay men as f*ggots. You're conflating bigotry with acceptability. The people who use these words don't care if trans people find them offensive, they don't care that it's not okay. They use them because they are dehumanising and offensive.

If you want to reframe the topic of the discussion we've had so far so that you can manufacture the argument you would quite clearly prefer to be having with me, don't bother, because I'm not dragging this thread any further off-topic than we already have.

Slán.
First, etymology and usage are very different things: I never claimed it was the etymological root of the word. You again, ascribed meaning to my words that wasn't there. My thoughts speak to the common usage - i.e. the sex trade - most notably that of sex tourists. The word ladyboy is very much propagated by English speakers - hence I used the word imperialist, as it is a word much like the N-word that dehumanises.

And no, I definitely don't sell myself "short" on trans issues when dealing with cis people.
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27-05-2019, 21:14   #29
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Hope this is the start of a fulfilling relationship for you OP - best of luck with it, think you should totally go for it and see where it takes you.
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28-05-2019, 18:22   #30
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OP: please don't listen to all the arguing over semantics.
If you're enjoying the relationship, and the other person involved is too, that's really the only thing about it that matters one whit.
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