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20-12-2018, 23:55   #151
BalcombeSt4
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There was widespread support for socialism in Ireland during the revolutionary period - and the potential for socialist revolution existed in this country at the time.
It existed in the 60's, 70's & early 80's as well.

You had People's Democracy which was led by people like Michael Farrell, Eamonn McCann & Bernie Devlin. You had the Officials & the National Liberation Front, you had the Irish Republican Socialist Movement which included the IRSP & INLA. The Repubican Socialist Collective & Irish People's Liberation Organization.
The Provos even tho they were not a Socialist movment per say, their main objective was the establishment of Democratic Socialist Republic.
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21-12-2018, 01:10   #152
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Originally Posted by BalcombeSt4 View Post
It existed in the 60's, 70's & early 80's as well.

You had People's Democracy which was led by people like Michael Farrell, Eamonn McCann & Bernie Devlin. You had the Officials & the National Liberation Front, you had the Irish Republican Socialist Movement which included the IRSP & INLA. The Repubican Socialist Collective & Irish People's Liberation Organization.
The Provos even tho they were not a Socialist movment per say, their main objective was the establishment of Democratic Socialist Republic.
All true (though I'm not altogether sure how socialist a Democratic Socialist Republic established by the Provos would have been).

But none of these movements acheived much electoral traction. In fairness, this was partly because some of them didn't pursue the electoral path. Still, while we can say that there were definitely soclalist movements in Ireland at the time, any claim that they enjoyed "widespread support" or represented real "potential for socialist revolution" would have to go into the "dubious" column.
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21-12-2018, 21:43   #153
tabbey
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In the late 1960s & early 70s, countless fringe groups tried to establish parties or movements with a left wing agenda.
A room would be booked, amateur notices would be stuck on lamp-posts or elsewhere, and the organisers hoped for the best.

It was said that they were sure of at least three attenders;

one from the Garda Special Branch,

One from the US Embassy,

One unpaid member of the faithful, honoured to report to Archbishop McQuaid.
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29-12-2018, 17:03   #154
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Originally Posted by BalcombeSt4 View Post
It existed in the 60's, 70's & early 80's as well.

You had People's Democracy which was led by people like Michael Farrell, Eamonn McCann & Bernie Devlin. You had the Officials & the National Liberation Front, you had the Irish Republican Socialist Movement which included the IRSP & INLA. The Repubican Socialist Collective & Irish People's Liberation Organization.
The Provos even tho they were not a Socialist movment per say, their main objective was the establishment of Democratic Socialist Republic.
Put the whole lot together and they wouldnt fill the back room of the local public house.
No widespread support with a few attention grabbers
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01-01-2019, 10:56   #155
Jolly Red Giant
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It's not nonsense it happened. It was a huge split in the Socialist movement, and the next big split was the Sino-Soviet split, but this was long after the left-wing Socialists were buried.
I don't need to talk about the "White Army" as they were just Imperialist scum, but the more interesting struggle during the civil war was between the right Socialists vs the left Socialists. The Bolsheviks were time & time again having to put down left-wing uprisings between 1918 - 1924 by the left Socialist Revolutionaries (Left SR) & the Revoltionary Socialist party, as well as the Anarchists & the Kronstadt Sailors.
FFS the person who shot Lenin, Fanny Kaplan was a Socialist Revolutionary Party member. And you are trying to tell me the Bolsheviks had no opponents from the left? Kaplan reminds of Corday, the French Revolutionary who stabbed Marat. And fair play to both women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-w...the_Bolsheviks

Lenin even wrote a book called "Left-Wing" Communsim: An Infantile Disorder. Which in it he attacks people like Luxemburg, Pannekoek & Gorter. He also claims Communsim must relate to & win over the Lloyd George's (Liberals) & Churchills (Conservatives), which probably shows how delusional he was in that regard. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/


How you can sit there & deny that Lenin never suppressed works by Marx & other Socialists is be on me. You seem to have a good grasp of the Russian Revolution & Civil War. You seem to want to put all blame on Stalin for mass killings & make Lenin out to be perfect with no flaws.

Leninism or Marxism-Leninism was a distortion of Marxism not a natural progression of it, Lenin was more worried in furthering his own class interests which was that of the radical intelligentsia, which he did very well, rather than furthering the intrests of the working class, who if they always had to rely on people like Lenin would never be able to liberate their class.

http://socialismoryourmoneyback.blog...ed-marxis.html

https://www.researchgate.net/post/In..._Marxs_thought



https://alphahistory.com/russianrevolution/left-srs/

Trotsky himself oppossed a lot of Lenins ideas until the October Revolution when he jumped on board the bandwagon. But Trotsky was another of the radical intelligentsia and his class interests were tied closely to Lenin's.
I think why Stalin's violence was less subtle than Lenin's reign was because he was not apart of that class and he came from a more working class - lower middle class background, and it's maybe one of the reasons for his paranoid state of mind & why he purged the intelligentsia class, people like Trotsky, Kamenev, Zinoviev & Smirnov.
But whatever about Stalin's crimes, Lenin mustvhave been the first dictator in Europe in the 20th century who formed a secret police & death squad in the Cheka. He used state power & the techniques of control & repression masterfully to crush any opposistion that got in his way.
And this version violent, authoritarian communism is the version that swept third world countries engaged in legitmate liberation struggles like Vietnam, Angola, Palestine & Cuba, and they & wanted a new order to replace the old imperialist systems & Bolshevik communism with it's anti-imperialist slogans was very intriguing to these countries, it's why the Irish Republican movement adopted it in the 1960's.
I really don't have time to go through all of this stuff - I have done it on many occasions before on different forums - including here -

https://www.politics.ie/showthread.p...ears-ago-today
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01-01-2019, 11:00   #156
Jolly Red Giant
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Originally Posted by BalcombeSt4 View Post
It existed in the 60's, 70's & early 80's as well.

You had People's Democracy which was led by people like Michael Farrell, Eamonn McCann & Bernie Devlin. You had the Officials & the National Liberation Front, you had the Irish Republican Socialist Movement which included the IRSP & INLA. The Repubican Socialist Collective & Irish People's Liberation Organization.
The Provos even tho they were not a Socialist movment per say, their main objective was the establishment of Democratic Socialist Republic.
While the was a significant increase in support for socialist ideas in the late 1960s - it was nothing on the scale of the revolutionary period.

The Peoples Democracy had the potential to establish a significant base for socialist ideas - but then blew the opportunity by siding with republicanism when the Troubles started.

As for some of the more fringe republican elements - they spent most of their time feuding with one another.

Last point - the Provos were a right-wing split from SF - they had to adopt a left facade otherwise they would not have been able to build any base of support in working class Catholic communities.
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