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Jordan Peterson interview on C4

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I must admin I am not overly familiar with the Petersons diets or their autoimmune conditions.

    But having watched that video a few things become clear:
    1) He prefaced his statements with "I'm not an expert on nutrition, this is only anecdotal" type disclaimers. He flat out admitted, numerous times, that in terms of the science he had no little to no idea what he was talking about.
    2) He also stated that each person or family might be different in terms of what causes problems for whom.
    3) There seemed to be some agreement between Jordan and Joe that common problems are the Western diet of today, including observations of general low-carb diets, vegan diets etc.
    4) At no time was he trying to sell anything.

    I suspect that the posters problem is either one of two things:
    1) El duderino hates JP for other reasons, e.g. his contradiction of general leftist ideology.
    2) ED09 is a militant vegan who despises JP for suggesting people might benefit from eating more meat instead of carbs. This would explain why a position so milquetoast as "well this is what has worked for me and my family" becomes "OMG JBP is horrible snake oil salesman conning people into eating MEAT. BUT WE WANT PEOPLE TO STOP EATING MEAT The MONSTER!!!!! HOW HORRIBLE !!!!!!!"


  • Registered Users Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    Mod

    Guava Juice has been banned for issues outside of this topic. It will be a waste of time interacting with them.

    Please don't discuss further, just noting this as they were active in last few pages for some disclosure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I find it funny that he was adamantly against the Canadian human rights act but now he is actually protected by the Americans with disabilities act as an addict and that protects his contracts job etc. And he has criticized such policies before and said questionable things about people with disabilities.

    Oh the irony.

    I imagine a lot of companies who published him and academic or medical institutions that hired him are worried about their liability now


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,873 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    SeanW wrote: »
    I must admin I am not overly familiar with the Petersons diets or their autoimmune conditions.

    But having watched that video a few things become clear:
    1) He prefaced his statements with "I'm not an expert on nutrition, this is only anecdotal" type disclaimers. He flat out admitted, numerous times, that in terms of the science he had no little to no idea what he was talking about.
    2) He also stated that each person or family might be different in terms of what causes problems for whom.
    3) There seemed to be some agreement between Jordan and Joe that common problems are the Western diet of today, including observations of general low-carb diets, vegan diets etc.
    4) At no time was he trying to sell anything.

    I suspect that the posters problem is either one of two things:
    1) El duderino hates JP for other reasons, e.g. his contradiction of general leftist ideology.
    2) ED09 is a militant vegan who despises JP for suggesting people might benefit from eating more meat instead of carbs. This would explain why a position so milquetoast as "well this is what has worked for me and my family" becomes "OMG JBP is horrible snake oil salesman conning people into eating MEAT. BUT WE WANT PEOPLE TO STOP EATING MEAT The MONSTER!!!!! HOW HORRIBLE !!!!!!!"

    Since I was asked to not discuss the topic, it's probably only fair to stop referencing me as part of the topic.

    Why do posters think they can think they can read my mind and is a coincidence that they're defending JP when they do it? Is it a case of watching a few JP lectures on psychology, hear a couple of references to Freud and Jung and thinking they're psychoanalysts or experts in psychology?

    If you want to know what I think, you can ask. If you don't ask, don't presume to know. You're wrong on both of those points above BTW, but I don't suppose that will dent your confidence in your mind reading abilities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭flexcon


    You spent the day trying to amateur psychoanalyse me because I criticised the Petersons miracle cure diet. This was before you even looked up whet the diet was. Pretty standard. Someone criticises Peterson so you criticised them using amateur psychoanalysis.

    It's interesting to see someone do it so blatantly - without even knowing what they were talking about.

    Have you seen the cure claims he made about the diet? Genuine question.

    I’m here reading this post and smiling confidently.

    A few months ago it looked like I had the classic symptoms of MS.

    Coincidently I read a book called the grain drain.

    After one month my symptoms receded to literally nothing.

    My neurologist cannot explain it although as he put it - the brain is a complicated machine. Placebo can convince you of something.

    However the end result is I have an appointment next month and so far my symptoms are gone. Zip.

    No dizziness, no muscle twitching, no vertigo. I’m ****ing flying it.

    Could I honestly say it was JP who convinced me? Nah. But I am my own case study and so far no carbs keto has been grea in some
    Many miracle ways. I’m in love with it - For now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Peterson's year of 'absolute hell'

    Jesus:

    [his daughter]and her husband took him to Moscow last month, where he was diagnosed with pneumonia and put into an induced coma for eight days. She said his withdrawal was “horrific,” worse than anything she had ever heard about. She said Russian doctors are not influenced by pharmaceutical companies to treat the side-effects of one drug with more drugs, and that they “have the guts to medically detox someone from benzodiazepines.”

    Jordan Peterson has only just come out of an intensive care unit, Mikhaila said. He has neurological damage, and a long way to go to full recovery. He is taking anti-seizure medication and cannot type or walk unaided, but is “on the mend” and his sense of humour has returned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    I find it funny that he was adamantly against the Canadian human rights act but now he is actually protected by the Americans with disabilities act as an addict and that protects his contracts job etc. And he has criticized such policies before and said questionable things about people with disabilities.

    Such as?

    I'm by no means knowledgeable about Peterson, i haven't read any of his books for example - but i have seen a fair bit of him on you tube and various other shows etc and i have to say he seems like a rock of sense to me.

    I just can't see why the hatred for the man - i find him eminently likeable. Maybe i just haven't seen the right clips but i have never seen him be anything but kind to any group of people.

    He calls bullshít when he sees it, but that's hardly a bad thing is it?

    Oh the irony.

    :confused:
    I imagine a lot of companies who published him and academic or medical institutions that hired him are worried about their liability now

    Why so?

    He's not a fúcking meth head - one of the things he has been warning might happen to others has happened to him. If anything it proves he was right to be concerned!


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,873 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    That's horrific, if true.

    I wonder what his next book will be about...

    Anyone know what's the story with going to Russia for treatment?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    The gist of it that i got was that there are a subset of people who become rapidly very physically dependent on benzos at prescription doses. The detox for these people is very dangerous and the American centres he went to weren't too inclined to take the risk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    The gist of it that i got was that there are a subset of people who become rapidly very physically dependent on benzos at prescription doses. The detox for these people is very dangerous and the American centres he went to weren't too inclined to take the risk.


    My read is that his nutso daughter trusts Russian quacks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Isn’t he the lad writing books about self-discipline and rules for life etc and now he’s gone mad on benzos and eats nothing but steak? Sounds like the type of lad we shouldn’t be listening to at all really.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Isn’t he the lad writing books about self-discipline and rules for life etc and now he’s gone mad on benzos and eats nothing but steak? Sounds like the type of lad we shouldn’t be listening to at all really.
    Ahh I dunno FT. Ignoring Peterson for a while I could never get with this notion that someone is, or should be a perfect reflection of their works. The message isn't always the man. It often isn't. I mean Ghandi was a pervert with a god complex, Martin Luther King was a philanderer. Many of the greatest geniuses of humanity that moved us forward as a species in science, philosophy, art were as people complete weirdos and pricks. To the degree that it often seems to be a prerequisite.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    With the money he has made in the last few years, surely he has access to absolutely the best medical care in the world - why on earth would he choose to go to Russia for medical treatment?
    You'd think that US/Canadian doctors would be very experienced with the best, safest ways to treat people with serious addiction issues? I think I heard he was put in a medically-induced coma for over a week - is that really a clinically-proven detox method? It sounds very strange to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    B0jangles wrote: »
    With the money he has made in the last few years, surely he has access to absolutely the best medical care in the world - why on earth would he choose to go to Russia for medical treatment?
    You'd think that US/Canadian doctors would be very experienced with the best, safest ways to treat people with serious addiction issues? I think I heard he was put in a medically-induced coma for over a week - is that really a clinically-proven detox method? It sounds very strange to me.

    He strikes me as a very smart man, and he could certainly afford the best, maybe he reckons the Russians are the ones to provide it.

    Seems to me that every 2nd American is addicted to something because of their doctors. Their whole system seems to be based on a pill for every ill, even when the ill is other pills!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,276 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Ahh I dunno FT. Ignoring Peterson for a while I could never get with this notion that someone is, or should be a perfect reflection of their works. The message isn't always the man. It often isn't. I mean Ghandi was a pervert with a god complex, Martin Luther King was a philanderer. Many of the greatest geniuses of humanity that moved us forward as a species in science, philosophy, art were as people complete weirdos and pricks. To the degree that it often seems to be a prerequisite.

    I would agree, but then the question arises: what has Peterson done to advance us as a species? As far as I can see his output consists of outrageous statements designed to create uproar and keep his name in the public eye.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Hoop66 wrote: »
    I would agree, but then the question arises: what has Peterson done to advance us as a species? As far as I can see his output consists of outrageous statements designed to create uproar and keep his name in the public eye.

    What outrageous statements?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Right now he strikes me as being a very vulnerable man - he's obviously deeply unwell, I believe his wife is also very unwell so I'm wondering if the majority of these decision are being made by his daughter, who is the person who claimed that eating nothing but beef cured all of her ills.

    I hope for his sake there is someone else involved - a legal advisor who has the authority to intervene if they think his best interests are not being represented.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,435 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Hoop66 wrote: »
    I would agree, but then the question arises: what has Peterson done to advance us as a species? As far as I can see his output consists of outrageous statements designed to create uproar and keep his name in the public eye.

    You forgot referencing reams of “studies” that no one is ever going to try and dig out to challenge what he’s said.

    The tide is turning…



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭ Kassidy Savory Tick


    What outrageous statements?

    I'd also love some examples of Peterson's "outrageous statements."


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,873 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Ahh I dunno FT. Ignoring Peterson for a while I could never get with this notion that someone is, or should be a perfect reflection of their works. The message isn't always the man. It often isn't. I mean Ghandi was a pervert with a god complex, Martin Luther King was a philanderer. Many of the greatest geniuses of humanity that moved us forward as a species in science, philosophy, art were as people complete weirdos and pricks. To the degree that it often seems to be a prerequisite.

    True enough. But where does it turn into hypocrisy? And should hypocrisy matter? Martin Luther loved a bit of philandering but that isn’t really relevant to his civil rights cause.

    If a bloke sells a miracle cure for anxiety (among other things) and is at the same time using drugs to deal with his anxiety, when does it become hypocritical?

    The stuff about standing up straight, smell the roses, clean your room, pet a cat and wear suncream, is grand. It blends in with the kind if stuff your grandad or Betty down the post office would tell you. So I’d say that’s not affected by hypocrisy or the drug addiction. But the miracle cure for anxiety must be a bit of an embarrassment for anyone who swallowed it without much scrutiny because the great JP said it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,873 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    What outrageous statements?

    The climate denial stuff, the meat diet stuff, the trans stuff. It was all about the marketing of outrage. He sides with his target market (conservative American men) on every topic. He threw a red meat diet to his base.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,276 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    What outrageous statements?

    OK, this is the bit where I quote some of things he's said and you say "that's not an outrageous statement"

    No thanks.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Isn’t he the lad writing books about self-discipline and rules for life etc and now he’s gone mad on benzos and eats nothing but steak? Sounds like the type of lad we shouldn’t be listening to at all really.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Ahh I dunno FT. Ignoring Peterson for a while I could never get with this notion that someone is, or should be a perfect reflection of their works. The message isn't always the man. It often isn't. I mean Ghandi was a pervert with a god complex, Martin Luther King was a philanderer. Many of the greatest geniuses of humanity that moved us forward as a species in science, philosophy, art were as people complete weirdos and pricks. To the degree that it often seems to be a prerequisite.

    I read 12 rules. It's a mix of old school Dad advice, ranting about lefties and likening them to Stalinists and some truly bizarre Grandpa Simpson-esque nonsense about existence.

    Karl Marx was a notorious antiSemite, even for his time and spent his life sponging off of Friedrich Engels, Padraig Pearse was almost certainly a child molester, Dr. Seuss was a notorious philanderer whose wife took her own life, etc... While it's not hard to find many more such examples, a lot of these people make significant cultural and philosophical contributions. I see none of this from Peterson.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    The climate denial stuff, the meat diet stuff, the trans stuff. It was all about the marketing of outrage. He sides with his target market (conservative American men) on every topic. He threw a red meat diet to his base.

    As i've said, i'm not all that knowledgeable on the man but anything i've heard him say about the meat thing was his personal experience or his daughters experience. If they say it's worked for them who the hell is anyone to argue?

    I mean it's a fúcking weird diet, but if you're judging the man based on what he eats for dinner, maybe you're being a bit too judgemental!

    The trans thing? I've heard him talk about trans athletes, is that what you mean? If so i agreed with everything i heard him say, i didn't hear anything outrageous.

    I've never heard him speak on climate change but this is what wikipedia says

    Climate change

    Peterson doubts the scientific consensus on climate change,[135][136] saying he is "very skeptical of the models that are used to predict climate change,"[137] and that "[y]ou can't trust the data because too much ideology is involved".[136][138]

    It's hardly that outrageous is it?
    Are scientists not supposed to be skeptical and weary of ideology?
    Hoop66 wrote: »
    OK, this is the bit where I quote some of things he's said and you say "that's not an outrageous statement"

    No thanks.

    OK.

    I'll just take your word on it so shall I:rolleyes:

    Can you even give me a hint - at least tell me how outraged i should be!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Padraig Pearse was almost certainly a child molester, .

    "Almost certainly" lets imagine the chap was still alive, would you be confident in making that statement?

    Would ya f**ck :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,873 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    As i've said, i'm not all that knowledgeable on the man but anything i've heard him say about the meat thing was his personal experience or his daughters experience. If they say it's worked for them who the hell is anyone to argue?

    I mean it's a fúcking weird diet, but if you're judging the man based on what he eats for dinner, maybe you're being a bit too judgemental!

    The trans thing? I've heard him talk about trans athletes, is that what you mean? If so i agreed with everything i heard him say, i didn't hear anything outrageous.

    I've never heard him speak on climate change but this is what wikipedia says

    Climate change

    Peterson doubts the scientific consensus on climate change,[135][136] saying he is "very skeptical of the models that are used to predict climate change,"[137] and that "[y]ou can't trust the data because too much ideology is involved".[136][138]

    It's hardly that outrageous is it?
    Are scientists not supposed to be skeptical and weary of ideology?



    OK.

    I'll just take your word on it so shall I:rolleyes:

    Can you even give me a hint - at least tell me how outraged i should be!

    Yes absolutely those statements were all about outrage. The trans stuff in Canada made him famous. He didn't get famous by telling young lads to stand up straight.

    It doesn't matter whether you personally agree with his statements or not. That's a function of whether he said things designed for you to agree with or not. The objective was outrage and that's what he achieved.

    Seriously, the climate change stuff. What he says is exactly the conclusion his American conservative market already has. He just provides an intellectual sounding facade to it.

    Same with a literal red meat diet curing his anxiety while also taking medication for anxiety. Like saying he had a headache so he prayed and took a paracetamol and his headache went away so he credits prayer and doesn't mention the medication. Couldn't parody it.

    The outrage is what keeps him relevant. If all he did was the books, neither of us would know his name.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Peterson doubts the scientific consensus on climate change,[135][136] saying he is "very skeptical of the models that are used to predict climate change,"[137] and that "[y]ou can't trust the data because too much ideology is involved".[136][138]

    It's hardly that outrageous is it?


    It is usual for internet blowhards and right wing shills for the petro industry, but unusual for a scientist.


    Of course his area of study was psychology, which is not much to do with climate change or beef diets. Should have told him something about anxiety and benzo addiction though, and I don't think recommended treatment is getting yourself into an induced coma with brain damage in a Moscow clinic.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Bambi wrote: »
    "Almost certainly" lets imagine the chap was still alive, would you be confident in making that statement?

    Would ya f**ck :D

    See below:
    LITTLE LAD OF THE TRICKS

    by Padraig Pearse.

    Little lad of the tricks,
    Full well I know
    That you have been in mischief:
    Confess your fault truly.

    I forgive you, child
    Of the soft red mouth:
    I will not condemn anyone
    For a sin not understood.

    Raise your comely head
    Till I kiss your mouth:
    If either of us is the better of that
    I am the better of it.

    There is a fragrance in your kiss
    That I have not found yet
    In the kisses of women
    Or in the honey of their bodies.

    Lad of the grey eyes,
    That flush in thy cheek
    Would be white with dread of me
    Could you read my secrets.

    He who has my secrets
    Is not fit to touch you:
    Is not that a pitiful thing,
    Little lad of the tricks ?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,873 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    See below:

    Sweet suffering Jesus.

    Had to google it to see if it’s real. I had never heard anything about this before.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Sweet suffering Jesus.

    Had to google it to see if it’s real. I had never heard anything about this before.

    Mad, isn't it?

    It'd be a very easy thing to suggest that a Catholic who founded a boys home would be sexually motivated but this... How did this even get published?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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