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UNIVERSAL SOCIAL CHARGE (USC)

245

Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    loyatemu wrote: »
    old (assuming your on less than 100K)

    4% - PRSI
    4% - Health
    2% - Income
    10%

    New

    4% - PRSI
    7% - USC

    11%

    in 2010 you went up to 4% Income levy after approx. 75k then 6% after 150k

    Also they've abolished the PRSI ceiling after 75k


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost


    I'm doing some calculations as a self-employed worker just for interests sake.

    Am I right in seeing that for lower bracket earners could pay up to QUADRUPLE the tax rates than an employee earning the same income?? :confused:

    The USC isn't affected in anything, right? I mean it's the same for self-employed or PAYE


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Gus99


    2010 2011 difference

    Net 110,317.40 106,452.16 -3,865.24a person on 200,000


    Net 18,724.16 17,364.16 -1,360.00a person on 20,000
    Padkir wrote: »
    They're paying 3 times more tax on your example...?? What more do you want????

    The increase is 3 times more. In fact, the person on 200k is paying 35 times more tax (93,548 vs 2,636) based on the figures provided. Or put another way, they are paying 46.7% of their income in tax, whereas the person on 20k is paying 13.2%.

    But that doesn't fit with the usual hyperbole that the lower earners always bear the brunt, the most vulnerable are being attacked again, etc etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    susie05 wrote: »
    S0 can anyone answer this for definate yet..will med card holders have to pay the usc?
    I had a look at some of the supplementary information on the Dept of Finance website earlier and I couldn't figure out if medical card holders have to pay it.
    They said something about it being levied on the 'same basis' as the levies its replacing, but they weren't specific.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    susie05 wrote: »
    S0 can anyone answer this for definate yet..will med card holders have to pay the usc?

    Anyone earning over €4004 will pay this USC. So - some people on medical cards will be exempt - but only because of earnings not because thay have a medical card. A med card will not give you examption from the USC

    See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/universal-social-charge.html


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Gus99 wrote: »
    But that doesn't fit with the usual hyperbole that the lower earners always bear the brunt, the most vulnerable are being attacked again, etc etc

    One of the shocking statistics I heard today was that prior to this budget, 45% of workers pay no income tax at all and only something like 13% pay tax at the higher rate. There's something very wrong about that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭Eoineo


    Ogham wrote: »
    Anyone earning over €4004 will pay this USC. So - some people on medical cards will be exempt - but only because of earnings not because thay have a medical card. A med card will not give you examption from the USC

    See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/universal-social-charge.html

    Are you sure about that? If so it is a much larger income decrease for many families than the government have let on....


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    Look at http://taxcalc.ie/calculator/ and mess around with some figures. The lower paid are bearing the brunt
    I'm not sure that's correct, from playing around with it, it actually shows that if you earn between 26100 and 32200, your take home will increase.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭DubDani


    According to the Deloitte Calculator and Taxcalc on an Income of 50K the USC will be slightly lower then the Levies you paid this year on the same salary.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭Padkir


    Gus99 wrote: »
    The increase is 3 times more. In fact, the person on 200k is paying 35 times more tax (93,548 vs 2,636) based on the figures provided. Or put another way, they are paying 46.7% of their income in tax, whereas the person on 20k is paying 13.2%.

    But that doesn't fit with the usual hyperbole that the lower earners always bear the brunt, the most vulnerable are being attacked again, etc etc

    Yup sorry thats what I meant, and I completely agree with you!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    This from Finance:
    Rate of the Charge
    The USC will be applied at the following rates:
    0% < €4,004
    2% €0 - €10,036
    4% €10,036 - €16,016
    7% > €16,016
    The lower exemption threshold of €4,004 means that annual income below this amount will not be chargeable to the USC, but once this amount is exceeded then the USC will be applied on the entire income. This method is similar to the mechanism currently used for the Income Levy and
    the Health Levy.

    Base of the Charge
    The USC will apply on a similar base to the Income Levy with no special exemptions.
    However, a lower rate will be applied to income earners over 70. There will also be an exemption from the charge for ‘genuine’ capital allowances used in business. Pension contributions will not have an exemption from the USC


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    DubDani wrote: »
    According to the Deloitte Calculator and Taxcalc on an Income of 50K the USC will be slightly lower then the Levies you paid this year on the same salary.

    That doesn't make sense. The rate is higher by 1% and the exemptions are lower.


  • Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭wicorthered


    People on 25K a year appear to be getting shafted! Previously exempt from from health levy so taking a big hit. The will lose 4.3% of their income yet 100,000 grand only gonna lose 3.7. 35K only lose .5% doesn't seem fair to me


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭DubDani


    dvpower wrote: »
    That doesn't make sense. The rate is higher by 1% and the exemptions are lower.

    USC is staged (i.e. some on 2% and some on 4%), whereby Income and Health Levy was payable on th full 50K. Following example on 50K:

    Income Levy 2% = 1000
    Health Levy 4% = 2000

    USC 2% = 200.72
    4% = 239.20
    7% = 2378.88

    3000 (2010) vs. 2818 (2011)


  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭susie05


    im actually gutted by the fact that medical card holders are not exempt..we are down €45 a week now from the usc alone now,never mind the income tax hike:( (i think)
    i dont work & husbands gross is around €680 so around 7% of that is around €45 - €50 weekly


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    If you contribute to a pension at work, you lose alot. Contributions are subject to PRSI and USC. Well, I have lost alot according to taxcalc.eu :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭shaddupayaface


    Ogham wrote: »
    Anyone earning over €4004 will pay this USC. So - some people on medical cards will be exempt - but only because of earnings not because thay have a medical card. A med card will not give you examption from the USC

    See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/universal-social-charge.html

    The link above states that there is no mention whether MC holders are or are not exempt from the USC.

    To me, this means that there is no definate answer out there.....yet!


  • Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭wicorthered


    Don't see why medical card holders should be exempt, why should I have to pay this and doctors fees when others don't pay either:eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭Eoineo


    Don't see why medical card holders should be exempt, why should I have to pay this and doctors fees when others don't pay either:eek:

    Medical card holders receive the card due to their financial circumstances and/or medical need. The limits are very low income wise in order to qualify. If you have a medical card it is because without it you would be unable to pay to see the Doctor, medical treatment or prescription fees.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35 hexx


    I think this is quite definitive from the Annexes of Budget 2011

    Base of the Charge
    The USC will apply on a similar base to the Income Levy with no special exemptions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭wicorthered


    Eoineo wrote: »
    Medical card holders receive the card due to their financial circumstances and/or medical need. The limits are very low income wise in order to qualify. If you have a medical card it is because without it you would be unable to pay to see the Doctor, medical treatment or prescription fees.


    I know lots of people who while not well off are far from low income. Yet these folks have medical cards. I think its one of the most abused forms of welfare. I know 1 family who run to the doctor when one of their girls so much as coughs. If they had no medical card the kid would have to do with a bottle of cough syrup!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭susie05


    I know lots of people who while not well off are far from low income. Yet these folks have medical cards. I think its one of the most abused forms of welfare. I know 1 family who run to the doctor when one of their girls so much as coughs. If they had no medical card the kid would have to do with a bottle of cough syrup!!!
    That is very unfair of you & maybe you dont have a child yourself so dont understand...my own child only had a ''cough'' last winter so i took her to the doc but 12hrs later she was in special care incubator unable to breath by herself..
    Sometimes things are not always what they appear to you..you dont know a families circumstance or medical history.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35 hexx


    I know lots of people who while not well off are far from low income. Yet these folks have medical cards. I think its one of the most abused forms of welfare. I know 1 family who run to the doctor when one of their girls so much as coughs. If they had no medical card the kid would have to do with a bottle of cough syrup!!!

    Personally I think this whole point is for a thread of it's own. However your comment is a very blinkered one IMO. I have a medical card and work, I have my card due to the exceptional medical needs of my daughter which has been deemed enough to allow a medical card for me and for her. Her medical needs not only have a financial impact on the whole family due to their cost but due to the time off required to care for her at any time during the year. It is not not always so cut and dry as you might like to view things.

    If, as I believe I am now subject to the USC I will have to reassess my situation and this may well push me into the social welfare area as I most likely will be better off on carers allowance and reduce/eliminate my working hours and thus cost the state more, rather than contribute as I have been doing. How can that be right?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7 cherry4


    I have a medical card and am "middle" income. I got it because my medical costs were/would be €350 per month and my income was reduced last year. I work full time my husband has 2 jobs and we still cannot pay our full negative equity mortgage. Today our combined monthly income was reduced by approx €450 per month (if the exemption is not applicable), this when we are already struggling. We may have to give up our long fought for home despite having reduced all spending to a minimum, working 3 jobs etc etc

    Looks like we will be emigrating

    If anyone has clarity on the medical card exemption PLEASE let us know
    Worried
    X


  • Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭wicorthered


    susie05 wrote: »
    That is very unfair of you & maybe you dont have a child yourself so dont understand...my own child only had a ''cough'' last winter so i took her to the doc but 12hrs later she was in special care incubator unable to breath by herself..
    Sometimes things are not always what they appear to you..you dont know a families circumstance or medical history.

    I actually know the family very well and they're very open about the fact they get great value out of the medical card. Obviously people do get genuinely sick and need a doctor but i'd wager a high percent of medical card visits to a GP (excluding long term illness sufferers) are unnecessary.


  • Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭trishawisha


    Eoineo wrote: »
    Medical card holders receive the card due to their financial circumstances and/or medical need. The limits are very low income wise in order to qualify. If you have a medical card it is because without it you would be unable to pay to see the Doctor, medical treatment or prescription fees.

    Im sorry but That is bollox! My manager in work has a medical card. His wife works part time. I dont qualify for a medical card, How is that fair!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭Eoineo


    Im sorry but That is bollox! My manager in work has a medical card. His wife works part time. I dont qualify for a medical card, How is that fair!

    I have no idea why you don't qualify and they do. Maybe you should take it up with the HSE & not some random poster.

    My experience with the HSE has been that they are very strict about granting medical cards.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35 hexx


    cherry4 wrote: »
    I have a medical card and am "middle" income. I got it because my medical costs were/would be €350 per month and my income was reduced last year. I work full time my husband has 2 jobs and we still cannot pay our full negative equity mortgage. Today our combined monthly income was reduced by approx €450 per month (if the exemption is not applicable), this when we are already struggling. We may have to give up our long fought for home despite having reduced all spending to a minimum, working 3 jobs etc etc

    Looks like we will be emigrating

    If anyone has clarity on the medical card exemption PLEASE let us know
    Worried
    X

    I sympathise and understand your concern. I too am concerned as this hit is going to be huge with huge consequences. I am suspect tha ambiguity on this is deliberate and covered with "no exceptions" mentiond in the Annex. I want a phone in on Prime Time and a straight answer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    The problem with the medical card system is that it creates a huge barrier to work or to make more via overtime if in a low paid position. The government should be RAISING the entitlement limit for medcards progressively while reducing the tax rebate on private care to zero over the same period and raising PRSI rates accordingly. Where I live I pay tax to the tune of 447 EUR a year just for health but I pay nothing to see a doctor and my work plan only has to cover some prescriptions and dental.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ncef4208


    If you have a full medical card not gp card, you were not liable for income levy nor the health levy, they did not announce that this was to change
    o


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