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Was it common for descendants of peerage to adopt their family title as surname after

  • 15-10-2014 4:10pm
    #1
    wet sand
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭


    Was it common for descendants of peerage to adopt their family title as surname after the title was removed?

    I'm trying to the trace the origins of the surname Ely. The main base of this particular family is Kyle, Co. Laois close by to Mountmellick, where the 1st Viscount Loftus of Ely held exstensive land.

    I'm trying to establish whether there is a connection between these two families.


Comments

  • #2
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    wet sand wrote: »
    Was it common for descendants of peerage to adopt their family title as surname after the title was removed?

    I'm trying to the trace the origins of the surname Ely. The main base of this particular family is Kyle, Co. Laois close by to Mountmellick, where the 1st Viscount Loftus of Ely held exstensive land.

    I'm trying to establish whether there is a connection between these two families.

    Confusing post – “after their title was removed” ?? Have a look on Google for ‘peerage law’.

    Hereditary titles are granted with a 'remainder' i.e. instructions as to whom the title passes when the holder dies, so there are set rules if the holder has no direct male heir. Usually if the last available male dies the title becomes extinct.

    Éile was a petty kingdom in Munster and the origin of the Ely taken as part of his title by Henry Loftus when in 1771 he became the 1st Earl of Ely. Loftus was the family name, Ely part of the title. I don’t recall a ‘name change’ from family name to title name but the reverse is quite common. i.e. life peers (Baroness Thatcher, Lord Archer) and several of the Irish peers.

    I’d be surprised if there was any link between the title Ely and the surname. My guess is that Ely as a family name is either cognate with Healy/Hely or an imported English surname, a locative one from Ely in Cambridgeshire


  • #3
    CeannRua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭CeannRua


    'The title refers to Ely in County Wicklow, not to the English city of Ely, Cambridgeshire; the second syllable is pronounced to rhyme with "lie" rather than "lee" (and so the title is pronounced in the same way as the first name Eli).[citation needed]'
    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Ely

    You might want to verify this though; maybe try Burke's Peerage.

    Different explanation here on page 8 http://www.proni.gov.uk/introduction__ely.pdf


  • #4
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Well, Ely Place in town is pronounced ELI as well, and I presume it was named for the Earl who owned land in the area.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #5
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Perhaps I could have been clearer… I said above that Ely (the title) was from the Gaelic Eile, and suggested to the OP that the surname Eli he queried was not linked, but was a locative placename from England. I could add that it possibly is one of the few Irish examples of that type.
    The PRONI link on page 9 gives the background to the title:-
    The name 'Ely' came originally from the Gaelic territory of Elye O'Carroll in King's County, now Co. Offaly. Adam Loftus, 1st Viscount Loftus of Ely (Lord Chancellor, 1619-1638), had sat for King's County in the parliament of 1613; in his patent of peerage, he is described as Viscount Loftus of Ely, King's County; and a cadet Loftus later in the 17th century definitely owned land in Elye O'Carroll. ….…………. In present-day Dublin, Ely Place and Ely House are always pronounced with the emphasis on the last syllable, and this is almost certainly how the family would have pronounced it in the 18th century. After the Union, with their increasing Anglicisation, they began to pronounce themselves as in the Isle of Ely, Cambridgeshire, and Ely Cathedral.


  • #6
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The Ely title has not been removed, and is not extinct. In fact it was "upgraded" , from "Earl" to "Marquess" in 1800, which I'm guessing was a bribe to get the then Earl to help vote the Act of Union through the Irish Parliament. The current Marquess is the ninth. I think he lives in Canada. His surname is Tottenham.


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  • #7
    BigCon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭BigCon


    The family name was pronounced "Eel-e" around these parts (South Laois)...


  • #8
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    BigCon wrote: »
    The family name was pronounced "Eel-e" around these parts (South Laois)...
    Nitpick: The family name was Loftus.

    The title was originally pronounced (by those who held it) as "Eel-eye", but some time in the nineteenth century they switched to "Eel-ee", which sounds more English and would be the default pronunciation for somebody from England (because they would assume it's pronounced like Ely in Cambridgeshire). Presumably the locals adopted whatever pronunciation of the title the family themselves used.


  • #9
    wet sand
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭wet sand


    BigCon wrote: »
    The family name was pronounced "Eel-e" around these parts (South Laois)...

    That's the family I'm researching.


  • #10
    wet sand
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭wet sand


    I was speaking to an old lady from the area and she told me that family came from Shropshire with William of Orange and were given land for their service following the Williamite War.

    Are there soldier records of this period?


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