Facebook and WhatsApp Privacy

Kewreeuss · 06-01-2021 8:07pm #1

"Users that agree to the updated terms will have their WhatsApp account registration and phone number, transaction data, service related information, interaction information, mobile device information, IP address and 'other information identified or obtained upon notice to you or based on your consent' shared with Facebook"

Can someone explain what this actually means in terms of privacy?
Your messages are encrypted but everything else belongs to Facebook?
Are they all like this?
If you disagree, you can't use WhatsApp obviously.
Are there any messaging apps you can use where everything isn't harvested?

Tazium · 07-01-2021 8:54am

Kewreeuss wrote: »

"Users that agree to the updated terms will have their WhatsApp account registration and phone number, transaction data, service related information, interaction information, mobile device information, IP address and 'other information identified or obtained upon notice to you or based on your consent' shared with Facebook"

Can someone explain what this actually means in terms of privacy?
Your messages are encrypted but everything else belongs to Facebook?
Are they all like this?
If you disagree, you can't use WhatsApp obviously.
Are there any messaging apps you can use where everything isn't harvested?

Some good details on bleeping computer, summarises that to continue to use WhatsApp you MUST agree to share data back to Facebook and by consequence Facebook partners too. - https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/whatsapp-share-your-data-with-facebook-or-delete-your-account/

From another article on the same topic by arstechnica it’s noted that the app ‘Signal’ as an end-to-end encrypted messaging and calling service doesn’t collect data. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/whatsapp-users-must-share-their-data-with-facebook-or-stop-using-the-app/

RangeR · 07-01-2021 10:01am

I've been using Signal and Telegram for the past few years. I'll be deleting my WhatsApp account at the end of this month.

arccosh · 07-01-2021 10:12am

***waves hands vigorously in anger while using Android phone where google has been doing this for years***

ED E · 07-01-2021 10:19am

RangeR wrote: »

I've been using Signal and Telegram for the past few years. I'll be deleting my WhatsApp account at the end of this month.

Threema works too, but really only if you've no mates*

*Says an IT professional.

RangeR · 07-01-2021 10:28am

ED E wrote: »

Threema works too, but really only if you've no mates*

*Says an IT professional.

Do any of us IT folk have mates?

Kewreeuss · 07-01-2021 1:30pm

What about iMessages, does Apple take your stuff?

Tazium · 07-01-2021 2:37pm

Kewreeuss wrote: »

What about iMessages, does Apple take your stuff?

The big providers all take something. It's what they do with it that differs; Apple's business model isn't built upon harvesting and selling your data to advertisers.

smuggler.ie · 07-01-2021 3:19pm

RangeR wrote: »

I've been using Signal and Telegram for the past few years. I'll be deleting my WhatsApp account at the end of this month.

Deleting account might NOT necessary remove data that is already there.

RangeR · 07-01-2021 5:21pm

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Deleting account might NOT necessary remove data that is already there.

Agreed, but I won't be giving them any more after this month and I won't be agreeing that they can use it for the new purpose that must be agreed to, to continue using their service.

ec18 · 07-01-2021 5:30pm

any way to revoke access for someone that wasn't paying attention?

dzsfah2xoynme9 · 07-01-2021 5:32pm

Time to get a Pixel 4a, flash Graphene OS and delete Whatsapp..

Also Telegram are going to be introducing ads soon. Looks like Signal all the way..

NikoleJennes · 07-01-2021 6:50pm

Everything belongs to social media when you are pressing `AGREE` in a registration session, that is.

Marty Bird · 07-01-2021 6:52pm

Is this not blocked by the EU and only affects users in the USA?

ReturnOfThe · 07-01-2021 7:14pm

I had a very cursory glance through the new privileges been granted by the app and I could see nothing that would worry me that much. I don't have a Facebook account but even if I had, what's the extra information profit that Facebook makes off this.
Only stuff I can see is maybe how often I use WhatsApp, maybe along with what other apps I have on the phone, what type of phone etc.
I guess I'm trying to understand what can they do with this data that will make them money as I'm assuming that's the reason they are doing this or am I being naive

RangeR · 07-01-2021 10:03pm

ReturnOfThe wrote: »

I had a very cursory glance through the new privileges been granted by the app and I could see nothing that would worry me that much. I don't have a Facebook account but even if I had, what's the extra information profit that Facebook makes off this.
Only stuff I can see is maybe how often I use WhatsApp, maybe along with what other apps I have on the phone, what type of phone etc.
I guess I'm trying to understand what can they do with this data that will make them money as I'm assuming that's the reason they are doing this or am I being naive

A bit from pot A, a bit from pot B.

At this stage, most of us are giving over huge amounts of data daily, whether we know it or not. The problem is that everytime something like this comes up, some people say... well it's not much data. What could they possibly do with it.

That's the problem. It's little bits of data grabs, many times. It all adds up. Some people may not care. I actually do. I don't trust them to do what they say they do with the data.

WhatsApp will be deleted and gone by end of month. Just working on getting a few important contacts off transferred of it.

Co-incidentally, I spent the last month getting rid of my gmail account, as much as possible other than using it on my android phone for payments and what not. GDrive is gone. GPhotos are gone. All websites/accounts that I used my gmail address as a username, have been moved over to a custom domain hosted on Proton. It took a lot longer than I thought it would but it felt good doing it.

The main reason for getting rid of my gmail is that I've been receiving emails for two people over the years. I shouldn't be getting them but I am. I don't even know who to mention that to in Google so I never did. I mentioned it to the one of the two people, though. I hate to think who is getting my mails [if any]. Their system is broken.

I no longer use Google Chrome but favour Firefox. Even through their mishaps over the past few months.

smuggler.ie · 08-01-2021 12:53pm

There is no escape from this "data pass on" anymore.

If you have/are using certain service you bind to some terms already. In most cases it would include share to "partners". Extent of this "share" usually is blur - "partners" have their own "partners", etc., etc. And even if list is provided - who read that

Threema or alike might sound like an sweet option for its anonymity(not even sure if it is the case), but this as of today.
Who knows who's hand it will end up tomorrow - same FB, G or MS can afford to throw another 20 billion just to shut down competition or expand their real-estate and then change T&C's. Known common practice

08-01-2021 3:07pm

RangeR wrote: »

The main reason for getting rid of my gmail is that I've been receiving emails for two people over the years. I shouldn't be getting them but I am. I don't even know who to mention that to in Google so I never did. I mentioned it to the one of the two people, though. I hate to think who is getting my mails [if any]. Their system is broken.

Any further details on this? I've seen quite a few instances of these claims, but it has always come back to either the sender or recipient being mistaken about what is happening. I'm not saying you're wrong, I would be genuinely interested to hear of an actual case

RangeR · 08-01-2021 3:39pm

28064212 wrote: »

Any further details on this? I've seen quite a few instances of these claims, but it has always come back to either the sender or recipient being mistaken about what is happening. I'm not saying you're wrong, I would be genuinely interested to hear of an actual case

Sure.

The first of the two people, I've been receiving a subset of their emails [no way of knowing how much] since 2012. Initially I thought it weird but after a few of her emails coming through [direct personal emails, including medical issues, not just marketing spam], I replied to one of them. It was an email with about 6 people cc'd and about some form of dinner party.

I don't know this person, nor the other people cc'd on the email. They were initially shocked. The only similarity to my address and her address is gmail.com. I've never been in contact with this person ever before.

The second of the two is a bit more explained. They are using a gmail address that I had used for years but long abandoned. Maybe the last email legitimately received was about 2017. In March 2002 2020, I start receiving personal emails for a different person but sent to this old gmail address and received in my current different gmail address. I've not contacted this person yet but probably will today. It's highly likely that when I was using it, I was auto forwarding gmails from this old gmail to my proper gmail. It's possible that this auto forward wasn't fully removed when it was recycled.

I don't know either of these people but I now know some of their friends, who their partners are, where they live, their phone numbers [I think] and parts of one of their most intimate medical history. It's almost as if I was BCC'd on a subset of their emails. However, this would mean that their doctor, hospital, estate agent etc would have to know my email address. This is highly unlikely.

It's deeply worrying. But I doubt the google bots would entertain an introduction from myself to give me a chance to prove my corner. It's just easier to migrate away from that address as much as possible.

Co-incidentally. both of these people live in the same USA state but far, far apart.

EDIT : Sorry, March 2002 should obviously be March 2020

08-01-2021 5:00pm

Interesting, thanks for that. The second one I'd say is almost certainly a typo issue. Google official policy is that they don't ever recycle accounts, even if the account is explicitly deleted. By far the most likely scenario is that you set up (for example) [noparse]ranger@gmail.com[/noparse], then 10 years later, someone sets up [noparse]ranger77@gmail.com[/noparse]. One of two things then happens: Ranger77 starts telling everyone about their shiny new [noparse]ranger@gmail.com[/noparse] address, or people get told about [noparse]ranger77@gmail.com[/noparse] and forget about the 77. Both are very common issues.

The first one is more interesting, as a typo sounds unlikely. I can think of a handful of possibilities, but they're at least as unlikely. Probably not possible to tell for sure without getting Google involved, it's certainly concerning

RangeR · 08-01-2021 5:28pm

28064212 wrote: »

By far the most likely scenario is that you set up (for example) [noparse]ranger@gmail.com[/noparse], then 10 years later, someone sets up [noparse]ranger77@gmail.com[/noparse]. One of two things then happens: Ranger77 starts telling everyone about their shiny new [noparse]ranger@gmail.com[/noparse] address, or people get told about [noparse]ranger77@gmail.com[/noparse] and forget about the 77. Both are very common issues.

OK, you might be on to something on the second one. It probably is a typo as I appear to only be getting emails from their accommodation management company.

Liberalbrehon · 12-01-2021 11:32am

Read two books, The Age of Surveillance Capitalism and Future Crime.
Be afraid. Even if you're not on FB, they have information about you, probably from a tag in a picture.
Never trust what is on the screen, especially if money or something important is involved.
See article in Irish independent about woman who had 180k robbed because she trusted email from lawyer whose email was hacked. Not her fault because we have all become accustomed to trusting what we see on screen as the truth.

As for FB and what's app, moving to signal is good move, or least worst option in these days.

Liberalbrehon · 12-01-2021 11:56am

Read two books, The Age of Surveillance Capitalism and Future Crime.
Be afraid. Even if you're not on FB, they have information about you, probably from a tag in a picture.
Never trust what is on the screen, especially if money or something important is involved.
See article in Irish independent about woman who had 180k robbed because she trusted email from lawyer whose email was hacked. Not her fault because we have all become accustomed to trusting what we see on screen as the truth.

As for FB and what's app, moving to signal is good move, or least worst option in these days.

riffmongous · 12-01-2021 12:10pm

If you already have a Facebook account, will this make any difference?

RangeR · 12-01-2021 4:23pm

riffmongous wrote: »

If you already have a Facebook account, will this make any difference?

I would think that's a tad naive. Even if I used facebook to it's fullest, which I certainly don't, the new whatsapp policy [outside of EU] will give FB all meta data about every conversation you have on WA, not the contents though [if we can agree that it's full end to end encrypted]. Why would I want FB to know who I talk to on a daily basis, on a platform that had nothing to do with FB when I first signed up [and initially paid money for].

Now, I am quite strict about my FB usage. The app is not on my phone. It's only on a device that never leaves my house with pretty much every permission denied. I rarely interact with it. I generally use it to keep in touch with family and friends as I don't get to see them much, even before March last year. If it wasn't for the fact that most of my family were not on FB, I'd gladly trun it out.

I don't trust FB in the slightest, regardless of what they say. I've personally experienced, far too many times, where I'm having a face to face conversation with somebody at home then.. the next day, I see an advertisement pop up everywhere for a something that I mentioned in that conversation. It's happened far too many times for it to be a co-incidence.

Do yes, it makes a difference to me. I use WA far more than I use FB.

smuggler.ie · 12-01-2021 6:16pm

No such thing as privacy, it does not belong to you anymore, whether you use certain services or not .

I do not see issue where someone, voluntarily, acknowledging all factors, decide to use service and share THEIR PERSONAL INFO. Its your right.

I do see issue, where someone decide to share ALL info they might have about other people, without other people consent.

riffmongous · 12-01-2021 9:23pm

RangeR wrote: »

I would think that's a tad naive. Even if I used facebook to it's fullest, which I certainly don't, the new whatsapp policy [outside of EU] will give FB all meta data about every conversation you have on WA, not the contents though [if we can agree that it's full end to end encrypted]. Why would I want FB to know who I talk to on a daily basis, on a platform that had nothing to do with FB when I first signed up [and initially paid money for].

Now, I am quite strict about my FB usage. The app is not on my phone. It's only on a device that never leaves my house with pretty much every permission denied. I rarely interact with it. I generally use it to keep in touch with family and friends as I don't get to see them much, even before March last year. If it wasn't for the fact that most of my family were not on FB, I'd gladly trun it out.

I don't trust FB in the slightest, regardless of what they say. I've personally experienced, far too many times, where I'm having a face to face conversation with somebody at home then.. the next day, I see an advertisement pop up everywhere for a something that I mentioned in that conversation. It's happened far too many times for it to be a co-incidence.

Do yes, it makes a difference to me. I use WA far more than I use FB.

I mean it as a genuine question

RangeR · 13-01-2021 10:22am

riffmongous wrote: »

I mean it as a genuine question

As a genuine question, no. It will make no difference to EU citizens, purely because of GDPR. It will definitely effect the people outside of EU.

Buddy Bubs · 13-01-2021 10:27am

The fact that these services don't offer a subscription service instead of data harvesting suggests to me the sums and fees involved in passing on data is far more lucrative than they could possibly expect a user to pay.

I'd pay for whatsapp to be fair, wouldn't pay for any other social sites although I've left Facebook and Instagram in last 12 months.

I wouldn't pay for boards either if any of the overlords are reading!

Liberalbrehon · 20-01-2021 4:40pm

RangeR wrote: »

I would think that's a tad naive. Even if I used facebook to it's fullest, which I certainly don't, the new whatsapp policy [outside of EU] will give FB all meta data about every conversation you have on WA, not the contents though [if we can agree that it's full end to end encrypted]. Why would I want FB to know who I talk to on a daily basis, on a platform that had nothing to do with FB when I first signed up [and initially paid money for].

Now, I am quite strict about my FB usage. The app is not on my phone. It's only on a device that never leaves my house with pretty much every permission denied. I rarely interact with it. I generally use it to keep in touch with family and friends as I don't get to see them much, even before March last year. If it wasn't for the fact that most of my family were not on FB, I'd gladly trun it out.

I don't trust FB in the slightest, regardless of what they say. I've personally experienced, far too many times, where I'm having a face to face conversation with somebody at home then.. the next day, I see an advertisement pop up everywhere for a something that I mentioned in that conversation. It's happened far too many times for it to be a co-incidence.

Do yes, it makes a difference to me. I use WA far more than I use FB.

I read that whenever FB update T&C's they reset security options to default. Have you noticed that? Wondering if true or if they have stopped doing that.

Facebook and WhatsApp Privacy

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