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10-11-2016, 13:34   #16
drunkmonkey
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Your right about the colour changing bulbs bk, that was my intention to have the whites and just one colour in each zone.

I can probably hold off on the bulbs until Black Friday but I do need to put in the fittings in the meantime.
Was talking to stoner in another thread about it and he said put in an ip65 over the shower.

All these fittings are going to be sitting in 100mm kingspan in the attic.
The ip65 fittings were about 15 on Amazon, im wondering as im doing it should I just put in ip65 everywhere.

Need 3 fittings for the landing. 3 for the bathroom, 1 for the bottom landing and 3 for over upstairs dormer windows. So 10 fittings in total.

What's do you think of making my own mirror with the HUE lightstrip for the bathroom. Once I set the colour will it remember the colour even if the lights are turned on and off.
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10-11-2016, 13:37   #17
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I don't think there is any safety danger to using IP20 bulbs in an IP44 rated enclosed fitting, the issue would be water getting in and damaging your expensive Hue bulbs. The other potential issue is that an enclosed fitting like this will trap more heat near the bulb, which might damage the electronics in it and shorten it's lifespan.
It wasn't so much about the waterproofing, im just not sure how to power the hue lightstrip in a bathroom?
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10-11-2016, 15:27   #18
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It wasn't so much about the waterproofing, im just not sure how to power the hue lightstrip in a bathroom?
To be honest, I think you will need to ask your electrician this or ask over on the electrical forum. This is more an issue of building and electrical regulations, etc.
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10-11-2016, 21:40   #19
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CFL's use about 25w for a 100w equivalent, versus a 9w LED.
Just on this

The way to measure light is not to compare to incandescent equivalent as that in itself is not a unit of measure, someone may have had a stab at making one but watt per watt some incandescent lamps produced more lumens per watt others.

Some megaman CFLs are delivering 430 - 450 lumens from their 8 Watt lamps. That's a very good CFL, there are many that won't do that

Philips 5 watt LEDs are knocking out about 250 - 300 lumens that's about equal in lumens per watt (this is an industry scale) that particular CFL is actually a bit better than that LED

Like everything else you can have good and bad CFLs you could produce shocking stats for a bad CFL vs a good led
LEDs are certainly better over all , but they also don't last as long as we thought they would and we are ignorant with respect to the rate of output die off that the lamps have because the manufacturers don't have to print it on the boxes.


But 25W to 9 Watt comparison is nearly a 300 percent improvement, that is inaccurate a fairer figure would be to say that the LEDs are about 30 percent more efficient when running, but how long will they last, what's the rate of intensity fall off and how much did you spend on them.


One of the things manufacturers did to produce more lumens per watt was to increase the inrush current . This shortened the life of the lamp, reduced the amount if times it could be switched and considerably reduced the lumen maintenance factor of the lamps, I'll come back to this.
They clawed the maintenance factor back a bit


The "brighter" lamps were great but it shortened the life of the lamp. Some Philips LEDs use to have a 15 year guarantees

That went from
15, 10, 7,5 3, and some are just 1 year.
The lumens per watt went up as the lifespan dropped

Next lmf, lumen maintenance factor what does this mean , more or less if a lamp produces 300 lumens at LMF 50 with a 3 year guarantee, that means that after three years 300 x 0.5 = 150 lumens is considered within the acceptable range of operation

The Philips lamp at say 300 lumens above that I mentioned would have a lmf of 70 so it's acceptable for it to only deliver 210 lumens after 3 years.

Most fluorescent lamps have about a 20 percent fall off. Towards the end of life this accelerates rapidly.

So now we have LEDs that seem like great value but you are going to have to change them more frequently. Yet they kept the good rep for very long life.

I had megaman 7watt gu10s in one room for 5 years. I was glad to get rid of them as they took so long to warm up, but that prolonged the lamp life. The lamps never blew

I recently took 3 number 13 w pl fluorescent lights from my house that were there for over 12 years I changed 3 lamps in that time. I got over 6 years per lamp.

That said I knew what I was buying 12 years ago.

If you take a 6 year old CFL out that has died out by 20 - 40 percent and pop in a new led, the LED will appear much brighter but after six years compare them the led will be the second one and it will be at somewhere between 50 and 70 percent of its original brightness.


In commercial applications to get about 350 400 lux on a desk a good fluorescent set up would use about 10 to 11 watt per M.sq
LED would get 7 to 8 watts per M.sq

You'd still pay about twice as much for the LED fitting as the fluorescent.

The thing about LEDs is that they are dimming very well now and they are much smaller and they look a lot better but no way are they 2.5 to 3 times more efficient than fluorescent.

Hue lamps are great , but you are buying nothing new Imo wrt efficiency you are adding great control and possibly turning them on less, but you might also be washing a wall with green light that you wouldn't have done before. Philips hue has great added value

I've had good LEDs for 3 or 4 years now. One room has never blown a lamp, but one that I have in a pir regularly blew as it switched on and off so much. It would have been cheaper to leave it on 24/7 than pay for all the replacements.

So I'm a big fan of the hue system but not for its efficiency. Advising someone to switch to a Philips hue system for running cost savings is poor advice when your consider the purchase cost. The lamps are very expensive, a Philips hue GU10 is 5 times more expensive than a regular Philips dimming GU10 that costs the same to run for the same output.

We really love it because of the tricks we can do with it.

You get all the tricks but you'll pay for them. And you throw all the electronics away every time you change a lamp just because the led is shot.
In my opinion the colour gu10 at 50 is better value than the white gu10 at 25 euro because it can do so much more with it. I wouldn't bother with the white ones really I'd want it all or nothing

Last edited by Stoner; 10-11-2016 at 23:03.
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10-11-2016, 21:50   #20
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Hows's the lifespan of the Hue LED's, as it's always taking a little power would it prolong the life of the light as your not switching it on and off.
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10-11-2016, 21:54   #21
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Yes LEDs now have guarantees that have two limits.
Hours used
Amount of times switched on

So you might see a guarantee like
10,000 hours or 2000 switches, which ever comes first.

Last edited by Stoner; 11-11-2016 at 12:14.
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10-11-2016, 22:07   #22
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Just read the Hue warranty, 2 years no mention of hours. That's not a lot for 50 bucks.
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11-11-2016, 00:00   #23
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Stoner I've no doubt everything you said above is accurate, but I have to say I've had many CFL's, including some really expensive ones and all I can say is I was never happy with any of them.

And I don't mean 5 years later, I mean I hated them from the day I put them in! Even the best "fast startup" ones were still terribly slow compared to traditional bulbs and the quality of light from them just sucked. I probably spent a small fortune over the years in the search for the mythical top quality CFL. Plus IMO I've had plenty of them fail too after just a year or two.

Then I finally switched to LEDs (non-smart originally) and I was simply blown away by them. Instant on and vastly superior light quality IME. No competition at all, after trying just one LED for a few days, I ordered an entire house worth of them to get rid of the crappy CFL's.

Now I've been gradually moving onto Philips smart LEDs and so far I'm extremely happy with them.

One point I think you miss, is that even Philips Hue white only bulbs, not only do they dimm, but you can change their colour temperature too. From super clinical white to a very chilled out almost orange. I have found this to be an incredible feature that his truly improved my life. I use the daylight white during the day during the dark Irish winter months when I work at home. I find it really helps wake me up, improves my mood and helps me concentrate on my work better, then in the evening I switch it to the other end of the light scale, which helps me relax and unwind after a hard days work.

Using different colours can absolutely create different atmospheres and moods, from the romantic mood I use for a nice romantic meal, to the scary halloween mood I used for the halloween party, to the awesome disco lighting we used it for later that night that responds to the beat of the music! It was very cool.

Also Hue lights can be used as decorations in themselves, "painting" different colours on the walls, etc.

You really shouldn't think of Hue lights as just remote controlled lights and their integration with HA tech, but also think of them as mood creators and enhancers and potentially home decorations.

So back to your point, I agree that they probably aren't significantly cheaper to run then CFL's, though they are MUCH cheaper to run then traditional bulbs that I would suggest many people still have kicking around. However they are VASTLY superior to CFL's in almost every way possible IMO and completely worth the slightly higher up front purchase price to get rid of terrible CFL's

I actually agree with you that I wouldn't buy Philips Hue lights if saving money is your only concern. Non-smart LEDs would be the best bet if money is tight. No, the point I was trying to make is that the vampire draw of these bulbs is remarkably low and not worth considering if you have decided to buy into all the fantastic, life enhancing features of these smart bulbs.

And you know what, that is largely true of all HA tech. Most of it is quiet expensive, most of it won't save you money. You buy it because it makes your life more pleasurable and easier.

Philips Hue - Fantastic mood enhancing lighting and home decoration (also some security features).
Smart Thermostats - Always come home to a nice warm house.
Logitech Remote - One remote rather then 10, family friendly usability and all the ugly AV gear safely hidden away in the study from sticky hands, which also makes the living room look nicer.
Amazon Echo/Google Home - Almost all the music in the world to easily and effortlessly fill your home, answer questions, etc.

Non of them really saves you money, they are more about enhancing your life.
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11-11-2016, 00:31   #24
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Stoner I've no doubt everything you said above is accurate, but I have to say I've had many CFL's, including some really expensive ones and all I can say is I was never happy with any of them.

.
that's all fine, the added value is fantastic, that's what you pay for, but your not paying for efficiency, you can more efficient options for 5 times less cost with one years extra on the guarantee


TBH I'd say people have spent more on rubbish LEDs that any other type of lamp ever, from those muck cluster units to the extra hot Philips master LEDs that needed a fan on them to keep them cool and cost €35 each!!

anyway. Back to the fantastic Philips hue system.

I have to say this think i like most about it is the frequency that they add new partners and features to the product. It's part of the plan now where Google, Amazon etc are trying to sell you items that they have promised to keep enhancing to stop people waiting for the next best thing
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11-11-2016, 00:56   #25
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that's all fine, the added value is fantastic, that's what you pay for, but your not paying for efficiency, you can more efficient options for 5 times less cost with one years extra on the guarantee
I really not trying to suggest that Philips Hue are a massive energy saving over CFL's, just that the vampire draw really isn't significant.

The main point is that 5 years ago, almost everyone was spending €20+ a year running a single incandescent bulb for 4 hours a day. Today they would spend €2 running a LED and they will spend €2.40 running a Hue LED bulb.

The main point being 40 cent a year is nothing in the greater scheme of things and gives you some incredible functionality.
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11-11-2016, 09:08   #26
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But dont forget the hub, How much electric does that use per year?
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11-11-2016, 09:17   #27
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Great thread BK

Quick question. Thinking of getting a couple of trips for the upcoming kitchen extension to sit on top of the units. Can these be controlled by the dimmer switch or are they app only as the wife is leaning toward €15 IKEA ones because they can be controlled by switch and obviously I am not...
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11-11-2016, 12:07   #28
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But dont forget the hub, How much electric does that use per year?
It draws a miserly 1.6 watt. That is 14 kWh a year running 24/7, or less then €2

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Quick question. Thinking of getting a couple of trips for the upcoming kitchen extension to sit on top of the units. Can these be controlled by the dimmer switch or are they app only as the wife is leaning toward €15 IKEA ones because they can be controlled by switch and obviously I am not...
Yes the switch can control the Hue strips.

The Hue switch is incredibly powerful. It can be "programmed" * to control any Hue device in pretty much anyway you like. It isn't just on or off or dimm, it can be programmed to control multiple lights and strips, it can set different "scenes" and colours. Each button on the "switch" can be programmed as up to 5 different actions (one, two, three and four button presses, plus press and hold).

* When I say program, I don't mean code, the programming is easily done in the Hue app using a GUI. The only problem is that my OH gives out to me because I'm constantly playing with it and changing what the buttons do

Oh and another warning, if this is your first Hue product, you will likely fall in love with it when you get it and end up getting addicted to it like many of us do and end up changing all the lights in your house to Hue!

So while the Hue strips are more expensive then Ikea, they do so much more it isn't even in the same league.

Also remember, if you get Google Home or Amazon Echo eventually, you will also be able to control the Hue strips using voice commands. (e.g. "Hey Google, turn on kitchen strips", "Hey Google, set kitchen strips to blue").

Note, you will also need the Hue hub if you don't already have one. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a bundlle that includes a Hue strip, hub and switch. Maybe you should think of getting a bundle that includes a hub, switch and some other lights that you could use in other rooms too:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-Amb...lips+hue&psc=1

Alternatively the hubs can often be picked up for cheap on adverts, ebay, etc. As people end up with extras from buying bundles in sales.

Last edited by bk; 11-11-2016 at 12:14.
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11-11-2016, 13:31   #29
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How bright would this Hue Led be, would it give good bright white light in a 7mtr x 4mtr room at night with no other lighting. What's the maximum room size it would fill with light undimmed in the white light.

Philips Hue White Ambiance Still 40 W Connect Ready LED Ceiling Lamp, 1 x Philips Hue Still White Ceiling Lamp, 1 x Philips Hue Wireless Dimmer Switch https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01L99HC06/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_api_6.BjybD02XH5T
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11-11-2016, 13:50   #30
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How bright would this Hue Led be, would it give good bright white light in a 7mtr x 4mtr room at night with no other lighting. What's the maximum room size it would fill with light undimmed in the white light.

Philips Hue White Ambiance Still 40 W Connect Ready LED Ceiling Lamp, 1 x Philips Hue Still White Ceiling Lamp, 1 x Philips Hue Wireless Dimmer Switch https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01L99HC..._6.BjybD02XH5T
I've this on pre-order myself.

It is 3000 lumens, which is extremely bright. To give you an idea, a 100 watt old style incandescent bulb is about 1600 lumens. So this is about equivalent to two 100 watt bulbs.

It should have no difficulty in general filling a room of that size. Though no guarantees about shadows in corners, etc.
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