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Water charges for excessive usage

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Comments

  • #32
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,041 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Yes.....


  • #33
    Lackey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Lackey


    gctest50 wrote: »
    No meter*?

    ** = deduct at source - dole, wages

    Except that will NEVER happen so average Joe tax payer will pay more ....again.


  • #34
    dhaughton99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    Just trying to justify the fact that they still have jobs in a dead agency.


  • #35
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,185 ✭✭✭emo72


    "scrotes in underclass areas". Well, what a fabulous quote. Thank God your above it.


  • #36
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    It doesn't matter. We protested this crap and forced the FG clowns to back down and I will never, ever, ever pay a penny to the corrupt quango.


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  • #37
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,185 ✭✭✭emo72


    Water must be privatised. Nestle have a right to make money, and we all need water to survive. So they can charge us, and make a massive profit for what used to be paid through our taxes. This won't pass over easily.


  • #38
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,381 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I think a few things need to be nailed down:
    1. Irish Water (or the provision of water within Ireland) should never be privatised.
    2. The bodies that deliver this service to the state should be run as efficiently as is possible.
    3. It has to be accepted that we have a water infrastructure that is creaking in areas and cannot cope with demand in other areas.
    4. A general individual responsibility for the use of this finite resource needs to accepted by all.
    5. At some point, it is socially responsible to put a levy on those that do now efficiently use the resource.


  • #39
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,381 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    emo72 wrote: »
    "scrotes in underclass areas". Well, what a fabulous quote. Thank God your above it.

    There are scrotes in every area in fairness.


  • #40
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    Always Tired wrote: »
    It doesn't matter. We protested this crap and forced the FG clowns to back down and I will never, ever, ever pay a penny to the corrupt quango.

    +1


  • #41
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,185 ✭✭✭emo72


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    +1

    +2


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  • #42
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    Are Irish water going to charge themselves for the leakage from their own pipes? They are actually the biggest wasters of water in the country. 57% of water in Dublin is lost through leaks much of it is the fault of Irish water.


  • #43
    Benedict
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Benedict


    The entire "excessive usage" fines system will collapse the moment even one person refuses to pay on the basis of unfairness.
    Nearly half the IW customers have no meter so will not be fined. So the other half will pay? The Irish people won''t tolerate this unfairness.
    IW are waffling about being able to monitor homes without meters - but the truth is, they won't be able. They can have suspicions, but they can't be sure who's using what in an estate if loads of houses don't have meters. And are they going to say "Hey you lot in No 54, we suspect you're using too much so here's your fine, now pay the fine or it's jail for you".

    Do they think the Irish people are complete idiots?

    They are bluffing. People with no meters are on a winner and it isn't fair to the people with meters.


  • #44
    Tommy Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭Tommy Kelly


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    Are Irish water going to charge themselves for the leakage from their own pipes? They are actually the biggest wasters of water in the country. 57% of water in Dublin is lost through leaks much of it is the fault of Irish water.

    No. It's our fault that water is being lost on public mains pipes. Decades upon decades of ignoring & not updating the water system has led to leaks on dirty, rotten & dangerous to our health, lead pipes.

    Irish water have been for the past several years now upgrading these pipes in various parts of the country.

    It's also worth noting that thousands of jobs have been created as a result of the ongoing upgrades to our water system.


  • #45
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,770 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Tommy Kelly wrote: »
    No. It's our fault that water is being lost on public mains pipes. Decades upon decades of ignoring & not updating the water system has led to leaks on dirty, rotten & dangerous to our health, lead pipes.

    Irish water have been for the past several years now upgrading these pipes in various parts of the country.

    It's also worth noting that thousands of jobs have been created as a result of the ongoing upgrades to our water system.


    Is that the 000s of lads who were switchec from LAs to IW?


  • #46
    Tommy Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭Tommy Kelly


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Is that the 000s of lads who were switchec from LAs to IW?

    Nah, it's lads like myself in the construction sector that fell on hard times during the bust.

    The lads working for LA's & I'm talking about the lads on the ground are clashing with their unions etc because they don't want to make the switch probably because they'll have to do a bit. You won't see any workers working for Farrens construction, Coffey's, Shareridge, or GMC once again lads on the ground that made the switch from working for local county councils.


  • #47
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    We live in a house with a shared water main.

    Same as very other house on our road.

    They tried to fit meters anyway and when I asked them why they were wasting taxpayers money they told me they were just following orders.

    So I got onto my local SF counselor and had the installations stopped.

    Unless they can specifically measure your household usage, there’s no way they’ll be able to bill you for it. That’s their problem though.

    It seems some people are itching to hand more of their hard earned cash over to the government to be wasted on god knows what and that should be their prerogative but they won’t get a cent out of this household without significant tax reductions in other areas.

    We already fought that battle and won but we’ll fight it again if we have to. We’re already paying far too much tax for far too few services and IW is nothing but an elaborate con-job on the nation.


  • #48
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,647 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Agree with the poster previously who said that this is simply FG trying to reintroduce their favourite hobby-horse on the quiet.. Because (as in fact evidenced by this thread) who could object to excessive usage or waste being called out? Aren't we all "green" nowadays? :rolleyes:

    The threshold will come down and then the mass billing will start but I doubt it'll get that far. The whole mess and suspect deals around IW in the first place hasn't gone anywhere, the same reasons it was defeated last time still exist, and while there will be lots of vocal protests even more will just ignore the bills anyway just as they did before.

    FG once again proving to be the "arrogant taxation party" and scoring yet another own goal.


  • #49
    Benedict
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Benedict


    IW should now face up to the fact that the "excessive usage fines" cannot be collected and any that are collected will have to be given back - just like they had to give back charges taken in the past. They are saying that if they "suspect" a non-metered home is using too much, they will insist on them getting a meter? So does IW think that the people in No 47 Anywhere Avenue who fought them off before are going to stand back this time and allow the meters because they are "suspects"? What will IW do this time? Arrange for the Riot Squad to be present (with plenty of tear-gas) in case they are confronted again?
    Then maybe they discover their "suspicions" were wrong. So it must be No 49 who has been using all the water after all. So they get the Riot Squad again and just hope they're right this time?

    So, if you don't have a meter (lucky you) and you see someone lying on the footpath outside your house with his ear to the ground, you'll know you're a "suspect" so expect the army to show up soon.

    Does IW SERIOUSLY think this will work? That metered homes will just pay up while their non-metered neighbours are laughing at them?


  • #50
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    In Wicklow they were using over 90% of LPT revenue collected from us to setup and fund IW. They also have all that motor tax, of which i've just paid €1494 which again goes towards the funding of IW. I pay well over 50% of everything i earn in both direct and indirect taxation while getting fluck all in return and paying for all other services separately, and now they think i'm going to pay yet again for what is nothing more then a bloated quango with a history of wasting tax payers money while looking after "their own".

    Last time I checked I didn't have gob****e written across my forehead.

    I just don't give my cash away that easily to the government or to anyone else. It's too hard earned and so it's never wasted. Why do the government think i'd give it to them to waste ? Not a hope. It's step too far and i'll go to prison for it if necessary.

    Eliminate the waste from the public system, stop throwing all our money at the most expensive children's hospital in the world and in the wrong location, stop wasting our money on dodgy contracts, and failed broadband rollouts, stop supporting and protecting those making fraudulent insurance claims, reduce the obscene pensions bill etc etc etc. The list goes on.. Start spending our money wisely so we can see a return on our taxes and then, but only maybe then, we can discuss water charges but for now they are dead in the water and so is any government that tries to introduce them.


  • #51
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,792 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Tommy Kelly wrote: »
    Irish water have been for the past several years now upgrading these pipes in various parts of the country.
    It's also worth noting that thousands of jobs have been created as a result of the ongoing upgrades to our water system.

    Have you a source for this job creation statement?
    Wasn't one of the rationales for IW that by consolidating the water services into a single national body meant less staff would be needed to run the services?

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-cutting-1200-jobs-2372307-Oct2015/

    IRISH WATER IS due to reduce its number of employees by 1,200 over the next six years. Three hundred jobs were cut since last year, making the number 1,500 in total. A spokesperson for the utility said the measure is part of a larger business plan agreed when Irish Water was set up. The company is hoping to save €1.1 billion in “operational savings” by 2021.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #52
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Have you a source for this job creation statement?
    Wasn't one of the rationales for IW that by consolidating the water services into a single national body meant less staff would be needed to run the services?

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-cutting-1200-jobs-2372307-Oct2015/

    IRISH WATER IS due to reduce its number of employees by 1,200 over the next six years. Three hundred jobs were cut since last year, making the number 1,500 in total. A spokesperson for the utility said the measure is part of a larger business plan agreed when Irish Water was set up. The company is hoping to save €1.1 billion in “operational savings” by 2021.
    The IW part was, but it didn't allow for the lazy lumping in of c 2500 LA staff on top of it. The reduction in that is where their savings will come but we'll have to wait till 2025 to see that fully implemented.


  • #53
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The Bishop Basher wrote: »
    We live in a house with a shared water main.

    Same as very other house on our road.

    They tried to fit meters anyway and when I asked them why they were wasting taxpayers money they told me they were just following orders.

    So I got onto my local SF counselor and had the installations stopped.

    Unless they can specifically measure your household usage, there’s no way they’ll be able to bill you for it. That’s their problem though.

    It seems some people are itching to hand more of their hard earned cash over to the government to be wasted on god knows what and that should be their prerogative but they won’t get a cent out of this household without significant tax reductions in other areas.

    We already fought that battle and won but we’ll fight it again if we have to. We’re already paying far too much tax for far too few services and IW is nothing but an elaborate con-job on the nation.
    You do realise that this proposal is for excess usage and not general water charges? If you're not likely to be in that boat it doesn't affect you an even if you happen to be, reducing your usage to below that limit means no need to engage with IW.


  • #54
    Limpy
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    The first start should be a referendum on Privatisation of Irish water.

    The moment bills start coming in the door people will mobilise again.

    FG and FF are beating a dead horse at this stage if they think they can sneak them back in.


  • #55
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    As my granny used to say "God loves a trier".
    Water charges by the back door, how transparent.


  • #56
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,951 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Is everyone going to be treated the same this time round?

    I had a meter installed outside my house, but what about all those that didn't due to protests? Are these properties going to get meters installed, or are those people who cause trouble and perhaps waste water get away with it while the rest of us pay?


  • #57
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The IW part was, but it didn't allow for the lazy lumping in of c 2500 LA staff on top of it. The reduction in that is where their savings will come but we'll have to wait till 2025 to see that fully implemented.

    Not really savings in the true sense though. These were additional payroll costs that had nothing to do with IW and should never have been included. It would be a bit like buying a flash car you can't afford and selling it a few weeks later to make "savings". I can think of numerous ways they could make genuine savings to the benefit of the tax payer but of course that's never in the game plan.
    is_that_so wrote: »
    You do realise that this proposal is for excess usage and not general water charges?

    For now.. But we all know that this government wants to introduce water charges and will do so by whatever sneaky means necessary. This is just the beginning of that process and needs to be cut off at the head now.


  • #58
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Surely everybody is opposed to excessive usage. But how are people responsible for leakage. If the leakage was obvious they’d fix it. Otherwise it’s a buried pipe.


  • #59
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Is everyone going to be treated the same this time round?

    No
    NIMAN wrote: »
    I had a meter installed outside my house, but what about all those that didn't due to protests? Are these properties going to get meters installed

    No
    NIMAN wrote: »
    or are those people who cause trouble and perhaps waste water get away with it while the rest of us pay?

    By causing trouble do you mean exercising their lawful right to peaceful protest ?

    Yes they will protest.

    Look, you choose to be a sucker and pay that's your call.

    Many of us see no reason to follow your lead and will stand up and fight this as we did last time.


  • #60
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,792 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Surely everybody is opposed to excessive usage. But how are people responsible for leakage. If the leakage was obvious they’d fix it. Otherwise it’s a buried pipe.

    And also, surely a leak would account for a helluva lot more water than > 1.8 times the household average?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #61
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The Bishop Basher wrote: »


    Many of us see no reason to follow your lead and will stand up and fight this as we did last time.
    For people to waste water?


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