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Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

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    #11732
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879487#Comment_118879487

    He's a year and a half older than Ryan Baird, and has played a lot more games (79 v 28 for their provinces), so, I think he's at a point where you'd be hoping he steps up to a higher level soon?



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    #11733
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,634 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    No surprises in the injury update. "There is good news on the injury front for Jack Daly (ankle), Mike Haley (knee), Jean Kleyn (leg), Liam O’Connor (knee) and Simon Zebo (HIA) as they all return to full training this week.

    Tadhg Beirne is awaiting a specialist review on his thigh injury and Dave Kilcoyne will begin a period of rehabilitation after seeing a specialist for a neck injury. Both Beirne and Kilcoyne are unavailable this weekend.

    Gavin Coombes is also unavailable for Saturday’s visit to Sandy Park and will undergo a scan on the ankle injury he sustained against Leinster.

    Continuing to rehab: Andrew Conway (knee), James French (knee), RG Snyman (knee)."



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    #11734
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The biggest news (disappointment) is Beirne, Killer & Conway not available for our back to back games v Exeter.


    We'll need them v Ulster too.



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    #11735
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879829#Comment_118879829

    Yeah, huge absences, especially Beirne. I think it's a fair argument that Beirne is more important to Munster than any one player is to any of the Irish provinces. The fall off in quality after him is stark.



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    #11736
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    For Exeter I’d go with more dynamism:

    Loughman, Barron, Ryan,

    Ahern, Jenkins,

    O’Donoghue, Kendellen, Hodnett,

    Casey, Carbery,

    Zebo, De Allende, Coombes, Earls,

    Daly.

    Reps: Buckley, J Wycherley, Knox, F Wycherley, O’Sullivan, Cronin, Healy, Gallagher.

    Realistically Van Graan will select the likes of Murray, O’Mahony, Farrell, Scannell and Archer, more’s the pity.



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    #11737
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880031#Comment_118880031

    Chris Farrell has been one of Munster's best players this season, he'd be the last player I'd be dropping. I'd argue him and Beirne have been Munster's 2 best performers.

    I've been critical of Murray, but Neil Cronin....seriously? He's AIL standard.



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    #11738
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880051#Comment_118880051

    Disagree on both counts.



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    #11739
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880069#Comment_118880069

    Fair enough, But whatever about Casey starting (which he should), Murray is still light years ahead of Neil Cronin.

    Farrell and De Allende are both excellent, the problem is how they're being used.



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    #11740
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880083#Comment_118880083

    I guess the style I’d like Munster to play requires a nippy scrum-half and an outside centre that has the pace to exploit an overlap.

    Murray should transition to outhalf in my opinion.

    Farrell should transition to inside centre, and perhaps we’ll see that next season when Fekitoa arrives.

    And maybe swapping Farrell to 12 and De Allende to 13 mightn’t be the worst idea to close out this season, assuming De Allende has the pace for outside centre, just haven’t seen it.



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    #11741
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880097#Comment_118880097

    Farrell at 13 doesn't restrict Munster in any way. People assume that because he's a big man his skills aren't very good, but they are.

    You don't exploit overlaps with pace, you exploit them with basic rugby IQ and skill, both of which Farrell has.

    Honestly Chris Farrell couldn't be further down the list of problems Munster have. He's a very good 13 who most clubs in Europe would love to have.

    The Murray to OH point doesn't deserve a response.



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    #11742
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Loughman, Scannell, Archer, Kleyn, Whycherly, Kendellan, POM, O'Donoghue, Murray, Carbery, Earls, De Allende, Farrell, Zebo, Haley

    Barron, Whycherly, Ryan, Jenkins, Hodnett/Cloete, Casey, Healy, Scannell



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    #11743
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Neil Cronin is not Heineken cup standard. He's either great or awful. I'd rate Patterson more highly.



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    #11744
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,473 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118878835#Comment_118878835

    Niall scannell is 29 so hardly a younger player and he could do with lifting his performances because hes far from owning that 2 jersey.



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    #11745
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,473 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880031#Comment_118880031

    POM was good enough for a big role at international level all during the 6N but doesnt start for munster in europe.

    Your dropping our most consistent back 3 player and putting a wing that has done very little out of position at FB.

    Poor effort.



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    #11746
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879307#Comment_118879307

    I haven't seen the game on TV yet but genuine question was there a TMO there, I couldn't believe there was no intervention from the officials for the ruck that Coombes got injured in.

    What they have peanalized? One penalty offense doesn’t overturn another. The first penalty conceded in that action was Munster preventing the clear out.

    As for the offside or the clearing out beyond the rucks. Maybe do watch the game back and pay attention to what Munster are doing, not just Leinster.



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    #11747
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,129 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The reality imo, is Munster, like the national squad are deficient in certain key areas. There's lots to like about the squad and it is a developing squad, which is getting an influx of quality young players.

    The front row is a concern. John Ryan is leaving, Archer is nowhere close to the required level and Knox hasn't made much ground. At hooker, Scannell is probably at James Treacy's level. For Munster to grow Barron has got be given an opportunity. Lh is ok imo, Loughman is a good player, Kilcoyne is also pretty good and then there's Wycherly.

    The locks are good with good quality depth. I'd rate them as Beirne, R.G, Kleyn, Ahern and Wycherly. There's also 2 young locks coming in.

    The back row is very good and has depth. Kendellen and Hodnett are future international players, imo. Coombes is an ox and J.O.D is very good.

    To get to the top end level Munster need a dynamic front row, that's mobile and skilled. They are lacking this.

    The backline is good. There's quality all through. I would think that Healy is the best 10 atm. Carberry was good this week but, I believe Healy can reach a higher level.

    Anyway, just my view on Munster. A side that is just missing quality in key areas. They will improve under the right coaching team.



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    #11748
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880450#Comment_118880450

    He's never found the form he had before he got injured a few years back.



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    #11749
    durthacht
    Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭durthacht


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880582#Comment_118880582

    I think French is moving from loose head to tight head so he might be an option there next year. Donnelly is only year 1 in the academy so he may also become a loose head option in the next couple of years.



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    #11750
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,124 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880548#Comment_118880548

    If Toner was deemed to have committed an act of foul play, the penalty would be to Munster because the other offence was a technical one. Foul play pen would take precedence



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    #11751
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880548#Comment_118880548

    “What they have peanalized? One penalty offense doesn’t overturn another. The first penalty conceded in that action was Munster preventing the clear out.”

    This is actually incorrect; a subsequent penalty offence can overturn another depending on severity.

    I forget which game, but it happened Munster earlier in the season, where they gave away a slightly more egregious penalty on penalty advantage and the ref overturned it. I’d have to go looking for which game, but it was a learning for me as well; always thought it went back to the original penalty unless it was something particularly bad.



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    #11752
    TomsOnTheRoof
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881083#Comment_118881083

    You're right. Foul play takes precedence. If the initial penalty is for offside and the ref plays advantage and there's a subsequent incident of foul play, such as a dangerous clear out, then the ref can stick with the second offence.



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    #11753
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    So hang on, is the offence in the side or a dangerous clear out? I’m getting confused here.



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    #11754
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    But all Toner could have been penalised for was side entry. The first penalty was not rolling away. Side entry isn't foul play.



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    #11755
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881175#Comment_118881175

    Cheers, that makes sense; as far as I recall, the incident I was referring to was an obstruction, which is foul play as far as I’m aware, so that makes sense.



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    #11756
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,124 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881083#Comment_118881083

    Munster v Connacht in October was the start of that conversation. When JoD blocked a Connacht player off the ball the ref disallowed a try but went back for an offside advantage instead of giving Connacht the penalty

    It was a game a few weeks later possibly v Ulster were an obstruction (I think) during a pen advantage was called and the pen went against Munster IIRC



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    #11757
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881083#Comment_118881083

    Yes as was pointed out foul play could overturn it. If Toner had punched Coombes. Then yes it could have been turned over. There was no foul play though. The clear out was legal apart from the side entry. Which wouldn’t overturn the original offense.



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    #11758
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882101#Comment_118882101

    None of which contradicts what I was saying, was just making the more general point that “one penalty doesn’t overturn another’ isn’t always accurate.



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    #11759
    joedamuss
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭joedamuss


    I think we just need to get over this now, it was a rugby incident it wasn't dirty, there isn't a dirty bone in Toners long body, very unfortunate that Coombes leg was trapped, hopefully he's not out for long as he's in great form and needs to be on that plane for NZ, from a Munster man.



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    #11760
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882212#Comment_118882212

    It’s funny when I was making the original reply to Phog. I thought to myself well it does in the case of foul play but that’s not relevant here. I clearly should have included that caveat for clarity.



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    #11761
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883886#Comment_118883886

    You keep telling us it's not foul play, take a look at what constitutes foul play.

    https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/9/#:~:text=A%20player%20who%20commits%20foul,temporarily%20suspended%20or%20sent%20off.&text=Intentionally%20infringe%20any%20law%20of,hand%20from%20the%20playing%20area.

    GLOBAL LAW TRIAL

    • A player may lever the jackler out of the contest at the ruck but must not drop their weight onto them or target the lower limbs.

    Cleanout and the safety of the jackler

    The trial

    To introduce a sanction for clean outs which target or drop weight onto the lower limbs.

    Primary intention

    To reduce injury risk to the player being cleaned out.



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