Cavity wall pumped insulation

stevek93 · 27-11-2020 9:56am #1

Hi all,

I am wanting to get Cavity wall pumped insulation but I am a but doubtful as whether I trust it or not. Do I need to get a pre insulation survey? I've heard from family and friends after getting their walls pumped with insulation afterwards damp has occurred on the inside walls.

listermint · 27-11-2020 2:18pm

Get a respected registered cavity company to do the work. They will survey for you, They should be registered SEAI so that you can also avail of the grant.

SEAI companies will tell you that you need ventilation in everyroom and this would be part of the job. Damp problems come from other issues not from pumping cavities.

Also whilst a cavity pump can be good, it has to be part of an overall plan for the home. Id suggest you might be best getting an airtightness survey done tbh. It would be better money spent and you will come away with measures that could be better than simply a cavity pump.

MicktheMan · 27-11-2020 4:34pm

listermint wrote: »

Also whilst a cavity pump can be good, it has to be part of an overall plan for the home. Id suggest you might be best getting an airtightness survey done tbh. It would be better money spent and you will come away with measures that could be better than simply a cavity pump.

^^^^^^THIS

Some houses definitely benefit by pumping insulation into the cavity yet many houses don't because they suffer much more heat losses from air leakage which pumping the cavity does not address.

stevek93 · 28-11-2020 12:47am

listermint wrote: »

Get a respected registered cavity company to do the work. They will survey for you, They should be registered SEAI so that you can also avail of the grant.

SEAI companies will tell you that you need ventilation in everyroom and this would be part of the job. Damp problems come from other issues not from pumping cavities.

Also whilst a cavity pump can be good, it has to be part of an overall plan for the home. Id suggest you might be best getting an airtightness survey done tbh. It would be better money spent and you will come away with measures that could be better than simply a cavity pump.

Thats fantastic advise thank you, an airtightness test is not something I would have thought of doing.

I did have a SEAI registered company visit to discuss insulating the cavity walls, the installer suggested to ignore the SEAI grant so I could get a good cash deal and wasn't interested in going the SEAI route. :rolleyes: This is why I used the SEAI approved list so I could avoid these people.

Calahonda52 · 28-11-2020 9:31am

stevek93 wrote: »

Thats fantastic advise thank you, an airtightness test is not something I would have thought of doing.

I did have a SEAI registered company visit to discuss insulating the cavity walls, the installer suggested to ignore the SEAI grant so I could get a good cash deal and wasn't interested in going the SEAI route. :rolleyes: This is why I used the SEAI approved list so I could avoid these people.

So an SEAI registered company is hooked up with a black economy cowboy?

Let's be clear here, black economy operators are stealing from all of us.

listermint · 28-11-2020 9:42am

Calahonda52 wrote: »

So an SEAI registered company is hooked up with a black economy cowboy?

Let's be clear here, black economy operators are stealing from all of us.

No least that, their work is questionable and not checked.

I had an seai engineer call out afterwards on my home to inspect the cavity pump work done. It was a random inspection and he specifically reviewed the ventilation. They quality check installers.

Jaymacc · 28-11-2020 9:54am

I got cavity walls pumped 5 years ago by SEAI approved contractor. It cost €600 and SEAI gave a grant for €300. We had a BER and were advised that cavity wall insulation is seen as phase 1 external wall insulation and that we should go about a full external wall wrap. This would cost €10k and there is a €6k SEAI grant. Looked into this with SEAI and they have said that as I had the external walls part insulated in the past and recieved a grant that it would mean I would not qualify for the balance of the €6k external wall grant despite it being advised by SEAI Assessor and know as phase 2 insulation. In summary, I suggest you go with an external wrap now and get the grant funding or get the cavity wall pumped by an SEAI listed contractor but DO NOT claim the grant for this as it will cause you huge issue in the future if like me, you choose to do further insulation.

stevek93 · 04-01-2021 1:01pm

Jaymacc wrote: »

I got cavity walls pumped 5 years ago by SEAI approved contractor. It cost €600 and SEAI gave a grant for €300. We had a BER and were advised that cavity wall insulation is seen as phase 1 external wall insulation and that we should go about a full external wall wrap. This would cost €10k and there is a €6k SEAI grant. Looked into this with SEAI and they have said that as I had the external walls part insulated in the past and recieved a grant that it would mean I would not qualify for the balance of the €6k external wall grant despite it being advised by SEAI Assessor and know as phase 2 insulation. In summary, I suggest you go with an external wrap now and get the grant funding or get the cavity wall pumped by an SEAI listed contractor but DO NOT claim the grant for this as it will cause you huge issue in the future if like me, you choose to do further insulation.

Great advise thank you, I think I am going to get the cavity wall insulation first and not claim the grant so I can do the external wrap in the future.

The issue I have is not even the house is cold but the external walls are like a block of ice, the presses on the external walls when I open them it is like I am opening the door to my fridge.

ednwireland · 04-01-2021 3:09pm

got the cavity wall pumped in a bungalow a few years ago (seai grant) , water running down the walls, a builder i knew came round and after some investigation and talking to old builders found that the house was built with a concrete ring beam round the top which caused a cold bridge.

had to get the inside of the house dry lined to fix it.

MicktheMan · 04-01-2021 3:46pm

ednwireland wrote: »

got the cavity wall pumped in a bungalow a few years ago (seai grant) , water running down the walls, a builder i knew came round and after some investigation and talking to old builders found that the house was built with a concrete ring beam round the top which caused a cold bridge.

had to get the inside of the house dry lined to fix hide it.

FYP:)

Fixing this type of thermal bridge requires properly detailed ewi.

stevek93 · 19-01-2021 2:26pm

ednwireland wrote: »

got the cavity wall pumped in a bungalow a few years ago (seai grant) , water running down the walls, a builder i knew came round and after some investigation and talking to old builders found that the house was built with a concrete ring beam round the top which caused a cold bridge.

had to get the inside of the house dry lined to fix it.

How do you know that exists? I asked the SEAI via email is a survey of the property required before the insulation is installed and they said no, surely checks have to be made?

I am reading here that "cavity insulation won't be suitable for a house if it has steel or timber framed construction areas". When I was installing the blinds in my front room I kept hitting steel while I was drilling it was either a girder or a rebar.

The issue I have now with the colder months is the walls are so cold literally if you keep your hand on the wall for more than a few seconds it hurts its so cold any moisture in the air is condensating on the external walls, its not my house is full of moisture either I am very conscious after taking a shower to let the bathroom dry out and while cooking I have a dehumidifier on constantly and my clothes are dried in a heat pump dryer, also I have a stove going most of the time and all rooms have smart TRV's to keep each room above 20c.

sydthebeat · 19-01-2021 3:53pm

stevek93 wrote: »

How do you know that exists? I asked the SEAI via email is a survey of the property required before the insulation is installed and they said no, surely checks have to be made?

did you ask then if THEY do an inspection??
because they dont, but an agent for the contractor does

maybe there is some allowances now for covid? of that i cant say.

page 27 here

The walls must be surveyed before the installation by a trained surveyor on behalf of the approved
Contractor.

I am reading here that "cavity insulation won't be suitable for a house if it has steel or timber framed construction areas". When I was installing the blinds in my front room I kept hitting steel while I was drilling it was either a girder or a rebar.

most likely you drilled into a steel lintel over a window. That does not mean the house is "steel framed". If you dont know how to check what your wall construction is, youll need to get in someone who does.

The issue I have now with the colder months is the walls are so cold literally if you keep your hand on the wall for more than a few seconds it hurts its so cold any moisture in the air is condensating on the external walls, its not my house is full of moisture either I am very conscious after taking a shower to let the bathroom dry out and while cooking I have a dehumidifier on constantly and my clothes are dried in a heat pump dryer, also I have a stove going most of the time and all rooms have smart TRV's to keep each room above 20c.

excessive condensation is caused by two factors, insufficient insulation (and or drafts) and insufficient ventilation.
Upgrading insulation may reduce the issue, or may actually increase it if there is insufficient ventilation.

in a grant job the contractor must assess and make allowances for this:

The works must not compromise the ventilation, air quality, humidity (and the potential for
condensation) and quality of living environment in the home. Consideration must be given to the
potential impact on the living environment in the home resulting from any measures installed under the Programmes. The Contractor must avoid making any detrimental changes to the living
environment and, where required, recommend to the customer any measures necessary to ensure
there is no detrimental change to the living environment because of the works. (See Section 4)

page 13 of the above document

stevek93 · 25-01-2021 10:31am

sydthebeat wrote: »

did you ask then if THEY do an inspection??
because they dont, but an agent for the contractor does

maybe there is some allowances now for covid? of that i cant say.

page 27 here

most likely you drilled into a steel lintel over a window. That does not mean the house is "steel framed". If you dont know how to check what your wall construction is, youll need to get in someone who does.

excessive condensation is caused by two factors, insufficient insulation (and or drafts) and insufficient ventilation.
Upgrading insulation may reduce the issue, or may actually increase it if there is insufficient ventilation.

in a grant job the contractor must assess and make allowances for this:

page 13 of the above document

The question I asked to SEAI I will quote below, but I think they misunderstood the question as their reply was "You do not need a BER Assessment before works under the Home Energy Grant Scheme"

"May I ask what is the pre-installation procedures? Do I need an inspection of the property before the installation of the insulation is carried out? Does the insulation installer carry out this or does another company provide this? I am not sure what is required I would like to know from pre insulation to post insulation what is the complete process from start to finish? So I know that the contractor is fulling the correct requirements"

My neighbour told me that when they were getting an extension when they knocked through they found the house was built with a steel beam going across the middle of the house.

So I have bought a humidity monitor for both upstairs and downstairs, in the kitchen it reads on average 40% in the affected room in the morning after sleeping it is reading 72% I will run the dehumidifier in that room all day until I go to bed again and it never drops below 50%, the room was 14.5c this morning when I woke but the kitchen was 18c with 39% humidity at 7am and that was with the stove going until about 2am, it was -1c outside.

BryanF · 25-01-2021 10:17pm

Steve. Try the same test, with the window open an inch over night.

stevek93 · 27-01-2021 5:47pm

BryanF wrote: »

Steve. Try the same test, with the window open an inch over night.

See what the humidity is in the morning then?

stevek93 · 28-01-2021 4:04pm

Okay no difference with window open at night, humidity 78% this morning.

Cavity wall pumped insulation

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