If the world goes completely vegan

Jjameson wrote: »

I think they are fair points and I don’t see anything precluding anyone from posting in farming and forestry.

I have no business posting there, that's a forum for farmers. It really is amazing how obsessed you all are with what is said in a vegan forum. We are never going to agree on anything so why not just let things be, I'm sure business is booming for you anyway with the worldwide growth in meat demand I keep hearing about.

Jjameson wrote: »

Nothing precluded anyone with an interest in the topics discussed. You don’t have to be a farmer.
I see no prerequisite to be a believer of all things vegan to post here and many like me so this is unlikely to become the one sided echo chamber you desire!

Not really I just don't get farmers can gain from posting in a place where people believe that the farming and slaughter of animals is cruel and unnecessary, no matter what. I mean one poster seems to meticulously crawl through everyone's posts here, on what must be an almost daily basis, it's a sick obsession for him.
It's like going to the Christian forum and continually telling them there's no such thing as God, it's pointless.

The moderation here is genuinely difficult to credit...

Ok, to keep more strictly in-line with the topic of discussion:

If everyone were to go vegan tomorrow, male chicks would no longer be ground up alive at birth.

El Tarangu wrote: »

The moderation here is genuinely difficult to credit...

Ok, to keep more strictly in-line with the topic of discussion:

If everyone were to go vegan tomorrow, male chicks would no longer be ground up alive at birth.

So are they released into the wild tomorrow or fed to old age?

Jjameson wrote: »

So are they released into the wild tomorrow or fed to old age?

They could all be culled. Or fed and kept to live out until old age. We currently spend billions subsidising the production of animals as things stand; this would be the same thing, only without the trip to the slaughterhouse. I'm sure that farmers would be happy enough to continue to accept taxpayers money to tend to these animals for another few years.

Jjameson wrote: »

But we aren’t farmers anymore we are all vegans tomorrow so there’s no one to kill them ,and we can’t keep them captive?

Dammit. You've sussed the whole vegan/vegetarian movement. I'm off to buy some spare ribs.

Jjameson wrote: »

But we aren’t farmers anymore we are all vegans tomorrow so there’s no one to kill them ,and we can’t keep them captive?

Well, it's not my stupid hypothetical - you asked me what could be done with all the animals, and I've just told you.

Gary kk wrote: »

Oh the the subject of subsidies I think it's better to stay away from it. It goes to all different types of farmers arable or livestock it cost ever citizen in the EU no more than forty cents per year and allows farmers to deliver food at a higher standard then the global average

Well, tbh I don't have any particular desire for my tax money to sudsidise arable farmers, either, any more than I would like to subsidise carpenters or clockmakers or any other profession. Whereas I actively object to subsidising activities that I have a moral objection to.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've only seen this theory of it being waste product for human products on boards.ie tbh. I'm not convinced.

Soya hulls and soya meal ( what's left after the oil is removed ) are imported in large quantities , cotton seed , citrus pulp ( what's left after juicing oranges ect,) some beet pulp -used to be home produced but our sugar industry got shut down .
Brewers grains is what's left after making beer , and distillers is what's left after whisky and spirits ( likely to be Irish produce ) ,
I'm sure there are loads of others but I can't think of them right now

El Tarangu wrote: »

Well, it's not my stupid hypothetical - you asked me what could be done with all the animals, and I've just told you.

Global veganism is indeed a stupid hypothetical.. and your answer isn’t in line with it.
But on a more serious note I do actually have partial agreement with monk on one issue and that is factory farming!
But not in terms of welfare in the eu at least.. more food quality, perceived monetary value of food. A huge amount Veg is factory produced, forced to grow under glass, environmentally damaging ecosystems and co2 levels. Israeli broccoli in Aldi today. Barmy.

El Tarangu wrote: »

And ground-up male chicks are used for fertilizer - while I'm sure that we all admire this thriftiness, it doesn't get away from the fact that a huge proportion of the land under cultivation today is exclusively for livestock feed, including large areas of south america that used to be rainforest. If there no more livestock animals, most of this land could be used for other things.

What the farmers on here say is that this land is actually for human products, but the leftovers go to animals. So it's not grown for animals at all, apparently.
I wish we could put this one to bed once and for all.

Jjameson wrote: »

From what I can decipher soya is about 50 50 in terms of economics between oil and animal feed. A move away from both would be of benefit environmentally and a sway toward regenerative animal farming practices is where it should be going.

Could we produce all the beef and dairy we currently do in Ireland using regenerative farming practices and no imported feed?

El Tarangu wrote: »

The moderation here is genuinely difficult to credit...

Ok, to keep more strictly in-line with the topic of discussion:

If everyone were to go vegan tomorrow, male chicks would no longer be ground up alive at birth.

Yes.
And pigs wouldn't be chewing on each other's open sores nor thrown alive into tanks of boiling water as seen in Mexico. They wouldn't have to be pried away from metal trailors using crow bars after having frozen to death in transport over large distances in Canada's Winter.
Frightened and terrified dogs on puppy farms wouldn't exist ( don't buy a dog, especially at Christmas). Nor would the caged dogs awaiting a clubbing on the head, then blowtorched to remove hair before being killed for human consumption.
Ducks and geese would no longer be terrified and exhausted after many weeks of continued desperate gavaging to make foie gras from their bloated livers. The process has been compared to torture in Brazil. Even in the high welfare use ( not all instances) of the practice in France birds are left terrified of the farmer, panting, damaged throats and unable to move as their oversized liver pushes against other organs.
Bears in cages in China lying on their sides with their gallbladders cathetered for bile would stop.
Male calves generally useless to the industry wouldn't be killed ( methods including plastic bags and lump hammers have been noted in Ireland ) nor transported long distances to be fattened for veal in confinement.
Animals wouldn't be transported from temperate climates to hot climates, especially in Summer or to countries experiencing heatwaves.
Animals would not be sent to countries which have basically no animal welfare guidelines: take Irish cattle sent to Libya for example where it's been reported were beaten, stabbed and dragged by the eye sockets. An Irish man or woman with the backing of the Irish government sent them to that fate.

What would happen to farmed animals if the World went vegan tomorrow? Well the above listed would not happen to them anymore.
A vegan world would see these extreme acts confined to history.

auspicious wrote: »

Yes.
And pigs wouldn't be chewing on each other's open sores nor thrown alive into tanks of boiling water as seen in Mexico. They wouldn't have to be pried away from metal trailors using crow bars after having frozen to death in transport over large distances in Canada's Winter.
Frightened and terrified dogs on puppy farms wouldn't exist ( don't buy a dog, especially at Christmas). Nor would the caged dogs awaiting a clubbing on the head, then blowtorched to remove hair before being killed for human consumption.
Ducks and geese would no longer be terrified and exhausted after many weeks of continued desperate gavaging to make foie gras from their bloated livers. The process has been compared to torture in Brazil. Even in the high welfare use ( not all instances) of the practice in France birds are left terrified of the farmer, panting, damaged throats and unable to move as their oversized liver pushes against other organs.
Bears in cages in China lying on their sides with their gallbladders cathetered for bile would stop.
Male calves generally useless to the industry wouldn't be killed ( methods including plastic bags and lump hammers have been noted in Ireland ) nor transported long distances to be fattened for veal in confinement.
Animals wouldn't be transported from temperate climates to hot climates, especially in Summer or to countries experiencing heatwaves.
Animals would not be sent to countries which have basically no animal welfare guidelines: take Irish cattle sent to Libya for example where it's been reported were beaten, stabbed and dragged by the eye sockets. An Irish man or woman with the backing of the Irish government sent them to that fate.

What would happen to farmed animals if the World went vegan tomorrow? Well the above listed would not happen to them anymore.
A vegan world would see these extreme acts confined to history.

And that's mostly only if people went plant-based. To go truly vegan there would be no more...

Badger baiting, or killing badgers in case they might have TB
Poisoning of raptors and other predators
Fox hunting
Hare coursing
Trophy hunting
Hunting for no reason whatsoever other than to take an innocent life
Absolutely raping the seas of fish and actually leaving a food source for other marine life
Whaling for 'research purposes' or mass killing of whales for 'traditional' reasons
Shark finning - absolutely barbaric practice
No more wet markets, and the risks that are associated with them
Fur farming and killing wild animals for their fur

It's actually truly depressing just how we as a species treat the other animals that are trying to share the planet with us. Farming is only a part of it. I will never apologise for being vegan.....never.