Wiring New Build

crf450 · 12-04-2019 12:40am #1

Hey all,

Back again would someone be willing answer few questions for me. I have ordered current wiring regulation I'm awaiting copy until then Id like run few things by people.

1. Is it possible to put flush mounted fuse board in hall and use plant room behind fuse board where its mounted and bring all cables into the board that way.
2. Height light switches
3. Height sockets
4. Height sockets for kitchen counter tops
5. Min distance from sink and min distance from hob for sockets in kitchen
6. With ceramic sink and steel taps do you run earth to taps
7. Is it allowed to install change over switch to run light off generator if power fails.
8. How are people running power to A2W unit are they using Isolator on wall out side and then feed to unit.
9. For A2W unit are people using C rated MCB
10. Cooker off its own 32amp MCB
11. Induction hob off its own MCB protected by RCD

Thanks in advance,

antiskeptic · 12-04-2019 9:12pm

crf450 wrote: »

Hey all,

Back again would someone be willing answer few questions for me. I have ordered current wiring regulation I'm awaiting copy until then Id like run few things by people.

1. Is it possible to put flush mounted fuse board in hall and use plant room behind fuse board where its mounted and bring all cables into the board that way.
2. Height light switches
3. Height sockets
4. Height sockets for kitchen counter tops
5. Min distance from sink and min distance from hob for sockets in kitchen
6. With ceramic sink and steel taps do you run earth to taps
7. Is it allowed to install change over switch to run light off generator if power fails.
8. How are people running power to A2W unit are they using Isolator on wall out side and then feed to unit.
9. For A2W unit are people using C rated MCB
10. Cooker off its own 32amp MCB
11. Induction hob off its own MCB protected by RCD

Thanks in advance,

Not being smart, but since it's not going to be certified anyway, I'd put stuff at whatever height I felt suited me (I put my light switches lower than standard, because I'm on the smaller side).

Tip: take a look at some new builds on myhome and that will answer some of your height/distance questions very quickly

An electrician friend pulls his hair out at distances from sink: apartment kitchens are so small that the regs can't be met: move it this way and it's far away from sink but too close to cooker.

Put them as far away as reasonably practical - knowing that you're not going to be chucking buckets of water at them

NB: I read up on the number of people killed in domestic situations since (iirc) 1996. Leaving aside people who had been repairing domestic appliances, the number of people killed was (iirc) 2. All this presumably include rotten, ancient electrical infrastructual situations.

2 people in 23 years. Electricity is dangerous. But not dangerous in every single situation. I worked in the food industry for 25 odd years. Every day washdown with power hoses, electrical equipment bashed and battered, plugs broken, sockets hanging. Everything made of stainless steel - not an double-insulated piece of equipment in sight. And never did anyone working there ever get more than a tingle.

Still. You don't know what you don't know. So for all your efforts to do it yourself, you run the risk of getting it seriously wrong unless you can get an experienced electrician/builder prepared to unofficially run his eye over things for you. One way to deal with it is to get a Periodic Inspection done of your work - the RECI guy knows he's not on the hook, since he's looking at something that isn't his build/insurance/registration. And you pave the way for an experienced eye to check over things. You'd have to sound out on the phone to make sure you're not getting a "jobsworth" around though.

The risk might be small but if it involves other people then it's a case of "be it on your head "

keithdub · 12-04-2019 11:49pm

If you get a competent electrician in they will walk you through your house and tell you what's what. Its 1150mm for switches and I also use that height for the kitchen. Its 450 mm minimum for sockets. As fas as your fuseboard I would need to see a picture but I'm thinking not if it's not in the same room. Cooker and induction hob I use 2 supplies on a 32 amp Mcb. I don't usually do localized earthing. As far as the a2w you need to stick to their recommendations. Keep sockets 1 meter away from the sink. Change over switch yes if you need one sak for a price.

13-04-2019 8:51am

Just to add:
- The rules do not state a minimum distance from the kitchen sink to a socket.
- Cookers and hobs do not require RCD protection.
- There is nothing wrong with using a type C MCB once the disconnection times are met.

Risteard81 · 13-04-2019 1:52pm

antiskeptic wrote: »

Not being smart, but since it's not going to be certified anyway, I'd put stuff at whatever height I felt suited me (I put my light switches lower than standard, because I'm on the smaller side).

Lower than the maximum is not a problem, so long as they are not lower than the minimum height.

But to advise someone simply to ignore the requirements of the Wiring Rules (including for accessory heights) is unacceptable. Installations must comply with the Rules - whether it is being certified or not does not allow the Rules to be ignored. (And don't forget that most works require certification, and to be carried out by a REC.)

Risteard81 · 13-04-2019 1:53pm

keithdub wrote: »

Its 1150mm for switches and I also use that height for the kitchen. Its 450 mm minimum for sockets.

The actual heights for a domestic installation are 400mm - 1200mm.

keithdub · 13-04-2019 4:26pm

Isn't that the minimum and maximum heights?

Risteard81 · 13-04-2019 5:41pm

keithdub wrote: »

Isn't that the minimum and maximum heights?

Yes. But I read your post to mean that it was minimum 450mm to maximum 1150mm. Perhaps you were just stating that this was what you set them at. If so, then apologies.

13-04-2019 8:17pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

Installations must comply with the Rules - whether it is being certified or not does not allow the Rules to be ignored.

+1

As this is a new build there is no excuse or logical reason for not fully complying with the rules.

It could be the case that the OP is just trying to get up to speed with domestic wiring rules to aid designing the installation which is of course permitted.

crf450 · 16-04-2019 9:09am

Thanks all, really appreciate all advice people are willing to offer . As 2011 mentioned its for new build and Im trying get back up to speed again doing as much research as I can make sure that all regulations are followed.

If there's anything people think maybe important or Im missing I would greatly appreciate there input.

dazed+confused · 12-01-2021 11:14pm

Hi

Don't want to drag up an old thread, but I didn't see the point in starting a new one either.

Am in a similar situation to the above, I am a sparks, but was never have house-basher. I am wiring my own house and have a friend signing it off for me. Bit of info on the project:

16kVA supply to meter box on the garage (ESB have approved this)
MCB in the meter box mounted in a small enclosure (this is a new one on me) am I correct in saying this should be an 80A MCB and not a 63A to get the benefit from the 16kVA supply?
3x25mm SWA out of the meter box and into my changeover swtich
x2 16mm SWAs out of the changeover swtich and into the house board and the garage board

Just checking these details
10mm earth to earth rod - given that my incoming conductor size is 25mm, is this correct?
10mm bonding conductor to well steel casing
10mm bonding conductor to underfloor heating manifolds upstairs and down

Now a few things that have changed since I last wired a house

Fuseboard almost at eye level
32A supply from garage board to a 3 pole rotary isolator to allow for car charging in the future
Going with RCBOs on all lighting (as this is coming in anyway)
Going with all Type A RCBOs for the same reason
High level 4-pole isolator outside bathroom for fan
Switched isolators for all hidden sockets on appliances - even my freezer? What if someone accidentally hits this switch? No ice cream for me!
Cat6A to all rooms, behind the TV, the heat pump, cameras, electric gates, etc. etc.
Coax from where dish will be to main TVs will be, but that's about it, I used to run coax everywhere but it's use is dying out I find/

On the exterior walls which will have 65mm insulated board on them, I am mounting deep boxes on the surface and bringing the cables in the back. I am then going to have to use a bit of flexi conduit or pipe to protect the cable as it enters the box. Is this the best method?

Am I missing anything?

kramer1 · 12-01-2021 11:52pm

dazed+confused wrote: »

Hi

Don't want to drag up an old thread, but I didn't see the point in starting a new one either.

Am in a similar situation to the above, I am a sparks, but was never have house-basher. I am wiring my own house and have a friend signing it off for me. Bit of info on the project:

16kVA supply to meter box on the garage (ESB have approved this)
MCB in the meter box mounted in a small enclosure (this is a new one on me) am I correct in saying this should be an 80A MCB and not a 63A to get the benefit from the 16kVA supply?
3x25mm SWA out of the meter box and into my changeover swtich
x2 16mm SWAs out of the changeover swtich and into the house board and the garage board

Just checking these details
10mm earth to earth rod - given that my incoming conductor size is 25mm, is this correct?
10mm bonding conductor to well steel casing
10mm bonding conductor to underfloor heating manifolds upstairs and down

Now a few things that have changed since I last wired a house

Fuseboard almost at eye level
32A supply from garage board to a 3 pole rotary isolator to allow for car charging in the future
Going with RCBOs on all lighting (as this is coming in anyway)
Going with all Type A RCBOs for the same reason
High level 4-pole isolator outside bathroom for fan
Switched isolators for all hidden sockets on appliances - even my freezer? What if someone accidentally hits this switch? No ice cream for me!
Cat6A to all rooms, behind the TV, the heat pump, cameras, electric gates, etc. etc.
Coax from where dish will be to main TVs will be, but that's about it, I used to run coax everywhere but it's use is dying out I find/

On the exterior walls which will have 65mm insulated board on them, I am mounting deep boxes on the surface and bringing the cables in the back. I am then going to have to use a bit of flexi conduit or pipe to protect the cable as it enters the box. Is this the best method?

Am I missing anything?

New regs are being enforced from this month check the sticky on this forum for changes

dazed+confused · 13-01-2021 12:05am

Installations may be designed to the old standard until 31 January 2021, provided they are certified to at least a pre-connection stage by 31 July 2022.

I'll be certified by the end of the month so not an issue, but am planning to design it to that standard nonetheless.
Not sure I want a metal fuseboard in my house though, will see what's out there.

Very good point raised in the Safe Electric videos that the system should be designed to one system or the other and not a combination of the two,
so I suppose I had better make my mind up now.

meercat · 13-01-2021 8:40am

It’s not permitted to certify someone else’s work
If this friend is doing this job with you then get them to walk through the installation before you start. A couple of things jumped out from your post without going through every regulation
You need to increase the cable size to your earth rod
Switch height including fan isolator is 400-1200mm

dazed+confused · 13-01-2021 9:11am

Is it 25mm to earth rod then?

dazed+confused · 13-01-2021 9:52am

meercat wrote: »

Switch height including fan isolator is 400-1200mm

Every new build i have been in recently has had the fan isolator near the door. Someone in a wheelchair isn't going to be changing a bathroom fan anyway. An isolator isn't designed to be used as a switch and so in my mind should be positioned in a place that would discourage this.

Quotes from another forum...

They are for isolation purposes for maintenance and not a functional switch.
Normally above the door just under the ceiling outside of bathroom.

The part M heights for new builds refer to habitable rooms...Living, kitchen, eating areas and bedrooms. A fan isolator above a door operating a fan in a bathroom is perfectly acceptable.

Newuser2 · 13-01-2021 11:56am

dazed+confused wrote: »

Every new build i have been in recently has had the fan isolator near the door. Someone in a wheelchair isn't going to be changing a bathroom fan anyway. An isolator isn't designed to be used as a switch and so in my mind should be positioned in a place that would discourage this.

Quotes from another forum...

There's no regulation saying fan isolators must go at switch height

This seems to be an interpretation by inspectors

meercat · 13-01-2021 12:35pm

dazed+confused wrote: »

Every new build i have been in recently has had the fan isolator near the door. Someone in a wheelchair isn't going to be changing a bathroom fan anyway. An isolator isn't designed to be used as a switch and so in my mind should be positioned in a place that would discourage this.

Quotes from another forum...

There are regulations on positioning of switches in bathroom zones and also regulations on switch heights

The fan should be switched on a regular 5amp switch and then through an isolator switch before the fan(switching all L&N conductors)

This has been discussed on numerous other threads but that doesn’t make it right.

JL spark · 13-01-2021 7:28pm

dazed+confused wrote: »

I'll be certified by the end of the month so not an issue, but am planning to design it to that standard nonetheless.
Not sure I want a metal fuseboard in my house though, will see what's out there.

Very good point raised in the Safe Electric videos that the system should be designed to one system or the other and not a combination of the two,
so I suppose I had better make my mind up now.

How will it be certified by end of month if your only wiring it ?
What your mate is doing is against regulations,

dazed+confused · 22-01-2021 12:40pm

JL spark wrote: »

How will it be certified by end of month if your only wiring it ?
What your mate is doing is against regulations,

Yes.

Yes, I appreciate that, but I'm an electrician with almost 20 years experience. Plenty of lads out there wiring houses that can barely write their own name.

Can we stick to the question asked or does Boards just exist to put put people down?

JL spark · 22-01-2021 1:09pm

dazed+confused wrote: »

Yes.

Yes, I appreciate that, but I'm an electrician with almost 20 years experience. Plenty of lads out there wiring houses that can barely write their own name.

Can we stick to the question asked or does Boards just exist to put put people down?

Not putting you down , there is a reason for rules and regulations,
Sure why would I bother paying insurance and register fees so ðŸ€”

dazed+confused · 22-01-2021 1:59pm

JL spark wrote: »

Not putting you down , there is a reason for rules and regulations,
Sure why would I bother paying insurance and register fees so ðŸ€”

So that your friends can chuck you a few bob for signing off their houses!

Ah no I get where you're coming from, that's why I worked in a factory. Couldn't justify all the fees etc.

[Deleted User] · 22-01-2021 10:36pm

dazed+confused wrote: »

Yes.

Yes, I appreciate that, but I'm an electrician with almost 20 years experience. Plenty of lads out there wiring houses that can barely write their own name.

I know a lad that got his papers and had to hire a Sparks to change a time clock for him.
I wish it wasn't true but he is thick as two short planks.

Thankfully he gave up the game for a life on the scratch.

EHP · 23-01-2021 10:28am

dazed+confused wrote: »

Can we stick to the question asked or does Boards just exist to put put people down?

Boards isn't here to put people down but I don't believe in any other forum would you be allowed to openly discuss doing something illegal which is exactly what you're getting advice on here. It doesn't matter how long in the trade you are or any other details it is against the law for someone to certify someone else's works.

Wiring New Build

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