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enforcement of 4 steps holding ball rule

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Comments

  • #32
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,764 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Festive Life wrote: »
    No theyre not. A match official can treat a derby game between rivals/ a promotion relegation battle very differently to a friendly or a early round league game.
    There very much has to be freedom for refs to interpret things slightly differently depending on the temperature of the game.


    AFL influence on gaelic hasnt been a bad thing and a mark rewards long passing which has reduced from levels it was in the game.


    Its not the refs fault at all. Fouling wont stop with yellow/reds alone but just applying the rules rigidly isnt the best way to ensure fairness as you wont always be able to do that. you have to have the freedom to let things go/let play continue in many(some cases) to allow a better contest.


    Totally agree. No refs in any sport are ever the same and you have to take that into account

    Referee is not there to ensure a better contest though. He’s there to ensure a fair one. Rules applied as stipulated and applied to each side evenly to the best of his or her ability. Regardless of a schools game, u21, senior... inter-county , whatever... he’s there with a whistle, cards and notebook, no thermometer, so temperature can’t be a factor, nothing outside of the rules should be... not abilities, weather, nothing.


  • #33
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Strumms wrote: »
    Referee is not there to ensure a better contest though. He’s there to ensure a fair one. Rules applied as stipulated and applied to each side evenly to the best of his or her ability. Regardless of a schools game, u21, senior... inter-county , whatever...

    We are going into philosophical debate here but for me a referee is on the pitch to get the best possible game from the teams involved. The role of the referee is to apply the rules in order to create conditions for our Games to be played well.
    That doesnt mean you apply every single rule as they are written in the rule book in every single situation in every game


  • #34
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,696 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    If a lads makes the most of a bounce he's can 3 or 4 steps by the time he let's go of the ball


  • #35
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,764 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Festive Life wrote: »
    We are going into philosophical debate here but for me a referee is on the pitch to get the best possible game from the teams involved. The role of the referee is to apply the rules in order to create conditions for our Games to be played well.
    That doesnt mean you apply every single rule as they are written in the rule book in every single situation in every game

    It’s not philosophical, it’s rather black and white.

    The referee has no responsibility as to ensuring the best possible game.

    The two teams do...

    The spirit in which they play the game, the manner in which they play it will decide the quality. The referee can enter the dressing room, give a pep talk... the rest is up to the players..

    The referee and officials play a part by ensuring the rules are applied fairly, evenly and consistently... All Ireland final or schools game.


  • #36
    thefa
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭thefa


    Festive Life wrote: »
    Nearly all sports get influenced/alter over time from experience of other sports especially very similar sports.
    It doesnt take good defending out of the game, it changes how defences operate and why is that a bad thing?
    The tackle is so poorly managed and officiated a change with that would be a very good thing for gaelic football.
    You dont and shouldnt have to accept a mark and can simply play on like now. It should be an option

    It does take good defending out of the game whenever a forward mark is called. Opportunities to show defensive skills are culled which were equalizers where a forward already has advantages.

    You’re rewarding a forward for getting a split second gap on someone (which the forward generally leads) and catching the ball. Shouldn’t lead to a free in my opinion but i am a back.


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  • #37
    WesternZulu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    Festive Life wrote: »
    Nearly all sports get influenced/alter over time from experience of other sports especially very similar sports.
    It doesnt take good defending out of the game, it changes how defences operate and why is that a bad thing?
    The tackle is so poorly managed and officiated a change with that would be a very good thing for gaelic football.
    You dont and shouldnt have to accept a mark and can simply play on like now. It should be an option

    Completely agree - the tackle should be addressed before anything else in football.

    I'm at a loss as to how the tackle could be redefined but most of the negative aspects of gaelic football are down to how easy it is for a player to hold onto possession compared to say hurling and soccer.

    It's the reason why short passing prevails and why teams are scared senseless to lose possession by kicking as chances are it'll be a good while before they see the ball again.


  • #38
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Strumms wrote: »
    It’s not philosophical, it’s rather black and white.

    The referee has no responsibility as to ensuring the best possible game.

    The two teams do...

    The spirit in which they play the game, the manner in which they play it will decide the quality. The referee can enter the dressing room, give a pep talk... the rest is up to the players..

    The referee and officials play a part by ensuring the rules are applied fairly, evenly and consistently... All Ireland final or schools game.
    A ref can treat games slightly different with their approach.
    The ref can enter a dressing room and give chat beforehand and of course its up to the ref to assist in determining the spirit and manner a game is played in as much as players.
    The ref while on the pitch is the sole judge of fact and of the rules during a game. No ref will officiate a schools game like they would an all ireland final. Theyre not the same so you cant treat them near the same
    thefa wrote: »
    It does take good defending out of the game whenever a forward mark is called. Opportunities to show defensive skills are culled which were equalizers where a forward already has advantages.

    You’re rewarding a forward for getting a split second gap on someone (which the forward generally leads) and catching the ball. Shouldn’t lead to a free in my opinion but i am a back.
    It doesnt. A player doesnt have to nor should have to take a mark if they win one.


  • #39
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Festive Life wrote: »
    It doesnt. A player doesnt have to nor should have to take a mark if they win one.

    And if you refused a mark in a kickable position, you'd get roasted by the manager. At any level. One that sticks out for me is Clifford not taking one against cork, he plays on and misses and he was rightly slaughtered after it.

    Take it out of the game and you get a better, free flowing, more competitive match between back and forward.


  • #40
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    dobman88 wrote: »
    And if you refused a mark in a kickable position, you'd get roasted by the manager. At any level. One that sticks out for me is Clifford not taking one against cork, he plays on and misses and he was rightly slaughtered after it.

    Take it out of the game and you get a better, free flowing, more competitive match between back and forward.
    All depends on what happens after. A player may score goal, point regardless. A mark shouldnt be mandatory
    The game isnt better if you remove it. The game is hardly not free flowing because there is occasional marks in games.


  • #41
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Festive Life wrote: »
    All depends on what happens after. A player may score goal, point regardless. A mark shouldnt be mandatory
    The game isnt better if you remove it. The game is hardly not free flowing because there is occasional marks in games.

    And if he carries on and misses a handy chance, as mentioned, he would be slaughtered by management so players, especially at lower grades in my experience, feel under pressure to just take the mark, even though it's not mandatory. I've taken plenty of marks and dislike the rule but I know if I didnt, I'd be ripped out of it for giving up a handy point.

    I disagree and imo the game was much better before the introduction of the advanced mark. It is literally less free flowing with it in the game due to more stoppages. Whether that's one a game or 10 a game, it's less free flowing.


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  • #42
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    dobman88 wrote: »
    And if he carries on and misses a handy chance, as mentioned, he would be slaughtered by management so players, especially at lower grades in my experience, feel under pressure to just take the mark, even though it's not mandatory. I've taken plenty of marks and dislike the rule but I know if I didnt, I'd be ripped out of it for giving up a handy point.

    I disagree and imo the game was much better before the introduction of the advanced mark. It is literally less free flowing with it in the game due to more stoppages. Whether that's one a game or 10 a game, it's less free flowing.
    He may not be "slaughtered". Many may not continue and will simply take the mark but it shouldnt be mandatory.
    Changes are needed to improve the game and the mark is part of the process. A mark shouldnt be a given because if close to goals you may have better shot at getting a goal if you dont immediately take the mark and play gthrough it
    We are talking about a small number of marks per game. We are not exactly talking about stoppages near like multiple re sets of a scrum in rugby.


  • #43
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Festive Life wrote: »
    He may not be "slaughtered". Many may not continue and will simply take the mark but it shouldnt be mandatory.
    Changes are needed to improve the game and the mark is part of the process. A mark shouldnt be a given because if close to goals you may have better shot at getting a goal if you dont immediately take the mark and play gthrough it
    We are talking about a small number of marks per game. We are not exactly talking about stoppages near like multiple re sets of a scrum in rugby.

    It's not mandatory.

    Have you played a game with the advanced mark? It really is a terrible rule. I think you'd find a lot of players against it. Particularly at low junior grades you just hear lads sighing all the time.

    I disagree that it improves the game in any way. I can see the benefit from a kick out mark. Plenty of times I've seen lads go to field a high kick out and have almost watched in awe as they come through a bunch of players to pluck it out of the sky. But for me, the advanced mark isn't an upgrade and I'd prefer to scrap it.


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