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Insomnia?/Tips for good sleep

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Comments

  • #242
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Maybe try sleep restriction, go to bed later 2 am and sleep to 7am and do that for a few weeks then slowly drag that back by lets say 30 min see how that goes for a couple of weeks. thats what a lot of the books recommend anyway.


  • #243
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,732 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Why are you going to bed so early? Try going to bed maybe at 1230 every night and getting up at 730 for a week or so, don't go near your bed at any other times. This approach seems to be working for me.


  • #244
    TP_CM
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Why are you going to bed so early? Try going to bed maybe at 1230 every night and getting up at 730 for a week or so, don't go near your bed at any other times. This approach seems to be working for me.

    I think I started going to bed earlier because if I went to bed at 12:30am I woke up at 5:30am. I lay awake for 2 hours and then I became really sleepy, just as I needed to get up for work at 7:30am.

    I think I have been lying in bed awake too much over the past few years. Maybe the sleep restriction is the way to go. I'm just not sure whether to go to bed at 10:30pm and get up at 3:30am, or go to bed at 2:30am and get up at 7:30am as another poster suggested. I can't honestly say I've given either a proper go. How long should I try that for? 3 weeks is it?


  • #245
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,732 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    TP_CM wrote: »
    I think I started going to bed earlier because if I went to bed at 12:30am I woke up at 5:30am. I lay awake for 2 hours and then I became really sleepy, just as I needed to get up for work at 7:30am.

    I think I have been lying in bed awake too much over the past few years. Maybe the sleep restriction is the way to go. I'm just not sure whether to go to bed at 10:30pm and get up at 3:30am, or go to bed at 2:30am and get up at 7:30am as another poster suggested. I can't honestly say I've given either a proper go. How long should I try that for? 3 weeks is it?

    check out sleepio.com, you have to put in a UK postcode to sign up, I think I used SE7 or something.
    You keep a sleep diary for 2 weeks, trying to go to bed and get up around the same times, and note how many times you woke up and for how long.
    In week 3, like I'm on now, it tells you when to go to bed and when to get up.
    I was getting around 4h 45m or so a night so it gave me the times of 0115 to 0630 to go to bed and get up at.
    The last 3 nights of this I've been asleep nearly the whole time I've been in bed those hours, and I actually really look forward to going to bed as I can put my head down and I just knock out. This is unprecedented for me.
    I have to do this till Sunday then I'll be given the next steps, maybe it will expand my hours in bed. It's a 6 week course in total but I wouldn't bother trying unless you're fully committed. I have cut out alcohol completely and made some other changes so I can do this.

    Lying in bed anxious and writhing is the worst thing you can do, I've realised, as you'll associate bed with unpleasantness, you're better off being up.


  • #246
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    [QUOTE=

    Lying in bed anxious and writhing is the worst thing you can do, I've realised, as you'll associate bed with unpleasantness, you're better off being up.[/QUOTE]

    Ill second this, bed is for sleep and sex and thats it, no watching movies, leave your phone outside the room and get out of bed if you can't sleep aster 15 or 20 min. Our brains are great at making associations conscious or other and if you are lying there tortured rolling around for hours your brain will associate your bed with that torture. You need to break that association and try to stop worrying about sleep. If I cant sleep now I get up go to the living room and lie down on the couch listen to an audio book and just say to myself hey its not the end of the world, ill get through tomorrow and life goes on. I wasn't always like this id lie on the couch giving out looking at the clock and counting how many hours left I have to sleep etc. Get rid of clocks, never mind the time and try not to care if you sleep or not as worrying about sleep because you cant sleep will prevent you from sleeping.


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  • #247
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,666 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Excellent tips there, Tar. Ref: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51810738&postcount=1

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #248
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Worztron wrote: »
    Excellent tips there, Tar. Ref: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51810738&postcount=1

    All useful tips, although I disagree with the notion that adults need 8 hours etc and think that tip can actually cause more harm than good if people are worried if they don't aren't getting 8 hours. There have been plenty of studies and we are all different. Margaret thatcher slept for 4 hours every night for her entire working adult life, I personally feel great if I can get 6 hours. Quality of sleep is much more important than quantity. We constantly drift through different sleep cycles throughout the night and the deep sleep part of this is the most important and restorative, I have often had a bad nights sleep where I know I fell asleep and I know I was dreaming but I also feel that I didn't get any of the important deep restorative sleep. So that said we don't all need 8 hours and in fact 8 hours may be oversleeping for some.


  • #249
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,666 ✭✭✭Worztron


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    All useful tips, although I disagree with the notion that adults need 8 hours etc and think that tip can actually cause more harm than good if people are worried if they don't aren't getting 8 hours. There have been plenty of studies and we are all different. Margaret thatcher slept for 4 hours every night for her entire working adult life, I personally feel great if I can get 6 hours. Quality of sleep is much more important than quantity. We constantly drift through different sleep cycles throughout the night and the deep sleep part of this is the most important and restorative, I have often had a bad nights sleep where I know I fell asleep and I know I was dreaming but I also feel that I didn't get any of the important deep restorative sleep. So that said we don't all need 8 hours and in fact 8 hours may be oversleeping for some.

    Hi olestoepoke. Good point. I too feel fine with 6h.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #250
    TP_CM
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    So, strange thing last night. I was all set to get up at 3:30am after a 5 hour sleep. So I fall asleep within a few minutes at about 10:30pm but our little one wakes me up at 2am after a nightmare she's had. We get that sorted within 20 minutes and she's back to sleep. I go back to bed (about 2:30am) and after 15 minutes I'm sleeping solid until 8am. I feel like setting an alarm for 2am tonight!


  • #251
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Mirtazapine is the only thing that works for me.
    Stilnoct has no effect.


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  • #252
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Mirtazapine is the only thing that works for me.
    Stilnoct has no effect.

    I tried Stilnoct(Ambien) and they had zero effect on me. I tried on an empty stomach, half one, full one etc and nothing. Melatonin worked well for a few nights an with zero side effects. Ultimately pills are a short term fix and the plan should be to get into a good sleep routine without any aids.


  • #253
    HBC08
    Registered Users Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭HBC08


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    I tried Stilnoct(Ambien) and they had zero effect on me. I tried on an empty stomach, half one, full one etc and nothing. Melatonin worked well for a few nights an with zero side effects. Ultimately pills are a short term fix and the plan should be to get into a good sleep routine without any aids.

    Stilnoct work well for me but i usually wake up after 1 or 2 hours.


  • #254
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    I tried Stilnoct(Ambien) and they had zero effect on me. I tried on an empty stomach, half one, full one etc and nothing. Melatonin worked well for a few nights an with zero side effects. Ultimately pills are a short term fix and the plan should be to get into a good sleep routine without any aids.

    Unfortunately melatonin is not available from GPs. And not allowed to be sold as a supplement.

    I did source it online a few years back, and found it effective.

    I find it very hard to establish a stable sleep pattern.


  • #255
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,666 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Re: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51810738&postcount=1

    @Tar - I'd also add, expose yourself to sunlight in the early morn if possible - helps with your circadian rhythm.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #256
    Fathom
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,001 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Reading through this thread. One thing occurs frequently. Establishing a sleep pattern. Getting up and going to bed at the same times. Weekdays and weekends. Works for me once I train myself.


  • #257
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Fathom wrote: »
    Reading through this thread. One thing occurs frequently. Establishing a sleep pattern. Getting up and going to bed at the same times. Weekdays and weekends. Works for me once I train myself.

    Yup, sleep hygiene.

    Yet still, I get nights where sleep just does not happen. Even if I'm tired. Especially when I'm tired!

    Then, back to square one. Ugh.


  • #258
    Fathom
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,001 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Yup, sleep hygiene.

    Yet still, I get nights where sleep just does not happen. Even if I'm tired. Especially when I'm tired!

    Then, back to square one. Ugh.
    Something else occurs when reading this thread. Individual differences. We are not all the same. Sleep patterns may vary. What works for most of us, may not work for all of us.


  • #259
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Fathom wrote: »
    Something else occurs when reading this thread. Individual differences. We are not all the same. Sleep patterns may vary. What works for most of us, may not work for all of us.

    Thats exactly right, you need to find what works best for you. That said there are general changes you can make that will certainly help. Eat healthy, exercise more and establish a routine and stick to it. I get out of bed every morning at 7 no matter what happens, If I have a rough night and get to sleep at 4 am I still get up at 7am. Watched an interesting Ted Talk recently by a sleep specialist where he said you should be cool in bed, the coolest our body temp drops is when we sleep and we need to facilitate this not by freezing but it should be comfortably cool.


  • #260
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MuIMqhT8DM

    He highlights how detrimental to your health it can be when you suffer from long term sleep problems.


  • #261
    Fathom
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,001 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    Thats exactly right, you need to find what works best for you.
    Anecdotal, but my best friend would agree. She sleeps when needed. If wakes up in wee hours. Does not fight it. Gets up and does something. Lids get heavy. Goes back to sleep. Feels OK mornings.


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  • #262
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Fathom wrote: »
    Anecdotal, but my best friend would agree. She sleeps when needed. If wakes up in wee hours. Does not fight it. Gets up and does something. Lids get heavy. Goes back to sleep. Feels OK mornings.

    As opposed to clock watching and worrying about not sleeping and not being able to sleep because you're worrying about sleep. I trained and prepared for almost 2 years to run the NYC marathon a few years ago. Not one seconds sleep did I get the night before min what they call 'event insomnia'. lay there telling myself I must sleep , I need to sleep, its a big day tomorrow etc. No good, the attitude your friend has is what anyone with insomnia should strive for. Who cares if I dont sleep, ill get through tomorrow anyway. And I did, I finished the marathon after zero sleep the night before, albeit slightly above my target time.


  • #263
    Fathom
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,001 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    'event insomnia'
    I can identify. Used to be in a competitive sport. Nights before playoffs. Sleep difficult to achieve. No matter what coach said.


  • #264
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,666 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Fathom wrote: »
    Reading through this thread. One thing occurs frequently. Establishing a sleep pattern. Getting up and going to bed at the same times. Weekdays and weekends. Works for me once I train myself.

    +1

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #265
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,666 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Hi Tar. I'd also mention reducing exposure to blue light in the hour before bed and using BL filters.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #266
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,666 ✭✭✭Worztron


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Yup, sleep hygiene.

    Yet still, I get nights where sleep just does not happen. Even if I'm tired. Especially when I'm tired!

    Then, back to square one. Ugh.

    You get zero sleep some nights? As in no sleep at all?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #267
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Worztron wrote: »
    You get zero sleep some nights? As in no sleep at all?

    I once went 3 nights with zero sleep when my problem was at its worse. Often have nights now with zero sleep.


  • #268
    Fathom
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,001 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    I once went 3 nights with zero sleep when my problem was at its worse. Often have nights now with zero sleep.
    Yo olestoepoke. The next time you see your GP. Would this be something you should bring up?


  • #269
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Fathom wrote: »
    Yo olestoepoke. The next time you see your GP. Would this be something you should bring up?

    What would be the point? He would prescribe medication. I know what the problem was, stress. We had a death in the family and I was taking part in professional exams so my stress levels were through the roof. I've made several changes and am sleeping a lot better now most of the time.


  • #270
    Fathom
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,001 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    I know what the problem was, stress. We had a death in the family and I was taking part in professional exams so my stress levels were through the roof.
    Understandable. Apologies. My mistake.


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    I've made several changes and am sleeping a lot better now most of the time.
    Good to hear.


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  • #271
    TP_CM
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    Worztron wrote: »
    Hi Tar. I'd also mention reducing exposure to blue light in the hour before bed and using BL filters.

    I have a paperwhite Kindle, does that mess with melatonin levels does anyone know?


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