New Dog Ethics

TheTree · 16-01-2021 4:24pm #1

Im trying to get a purebred puppy. It seems like that makes me a bad person in some peoples eyes.

I want a purebred as I've never had one. I wont go into breed as its irrelevant.
I want a puppy, less than 6 months as I decided it will give us best chance to have a well trained dog and I like puppies.

Anyway, it seems impossible to get this while not invoking the scorn of the pro dog rights crowd.
I contacted the only registered ikc breeder I could find months ago. They gave me vague answers, said they have no dogs and now just fog me off.

I looked up various dog shelter type sites for last few months and never have any success. Am I a bad person for wanting a specific purebred?
There are several adds listed on sites like dogs.ie which I am now tempted to just go with and take the chance. They are selling from anywhere between 750 - 2k. Prices dont matter to me too much.

I have gone down other avenues but the whole area is a mess.

Heart Break Kid · 16-01-2021 4:28pm

If you want a certain dog, get the dog. Once you get it, no one really cares.

Best practice, I’d always say look in a shelter first but if your looking for a €2k dog that’s probably not going to happen. If there is only one breeder, maybe open look at some other similar types dogs.

As for ethics, who cares, just try not to encourage breeders of poor quality dogs. Most dogs have issues but they can be it can be made worse due to poor breeding.

Cherry Blossom · 16-01-2021 5:56pm

When you say you contacted the only IKC breeder you could find, do you mean you contacted the breed club as per the details given under the breed on the IKC website? If not, if you name the breed someone can link you to the breed club.

Try to remember that everyone wants a dog just now and there is not enough reputable sources to go around every one that wants one from a reputable source. The only option is to wait. I waited a year for my dog pre COVID which was normal enough then so imagine what it is like now. Reputable breeders are not breeding due to not wanting to break the restrictions. Puppies born now would not have the optimal start in life a breeder or owner would prefer. I’m afraid when this is over we are going to see lots of very poorly socialised young dogs, at least that’s what should happen if people are restricting visitors and keeping their distance.

I’m not looking for a puppy but if I was I would forget about it for now, at least until everyone has their vaccinations.

Just to add, I did not go through the breed club as I felt the representative was only interested in pushing her own dogs. I found the breeder of my pup on a breed specific forum. They had left the breed club due to some politics but I found them to be a perfect fit for my needs.

TheBoyConor · 16-01-2021 6:00pm

A lot of ikc breeders are pure gangsters with a veneer of reputability confered by their ikc membership

Cherry Blossom · 16-01-2021 6:03pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

A lot of ikc breeders are pure gangsters with a veneer of reputability confered by their ikc membership

There is no such thing as an ikc breeder. The IKC don’t register people or premises, they register dogs.

micah537 · 16-01-2021 6:14pm

TheTree wrote: »

Am I a bad person for wanting a specific purebred?
.

Off course not. Lots of people have a preferred breed. We grew up with Border Collies a Lab, a GSD, Chihuahua, Yorkie and Pom. One bro has 3 GSDs and the other bro and I have one GSD each. No way either of us would get any other breed. Out of these five purebred dogs, three are adopted due to shelters always having them but I would absolutely pay a few grand if they weren't in shelters.

There's no point in getting a dog just to keep other people happy. I personally couldn't tolerate owning a yappy untrainable dog breed that I dislike just because it's in a shelter.

cocker5 · 16-01-2021 6:23pm

TheTree wrote: »

Im trying to get a purebred puppy. It seems like that makes me a bad person in some peoples eyes.

I want a purebred as I've never had one. I wont go into breed as its irrelevant.
I want a puppy, less than 6 months as I decided it will give us best chance to have a well trained dog and I like puppies.

Anyway, it seems impossible to get this while not invoking the scorn of the pro dog rights crowd.
I contacted the only registered ikc breeder I could find months ago. They gave me vague answers, said they have no dogs and now just fog me off.

I looked up various dog shelter type sites for last few months and never have any success. Am I a bad person for wanting a specific purebred?
There are several adds listed on sites like dogs.ie which I am now tempted to just go with and take the chance. They are selling from anywhere between 750 - 2k. Prices dont matter to me too much.

I have gone down other avenues but the whole area is a mess.

Unfortunately at the moment everyone wants a dog by any means and any cost.

At the end of the day there are long lists at the moment on breeders books I’m sure so you need to be prepared to wait OP

With regard to the rescuing route it’s not a ‘mess’ u need to know what rescue to go to and your more thank likely not going to get the breed u want .. unless you wait and keep an eye out and even then the dog may not be the age your looking for.

We purchased our first dog 16 years ago - pure bred black cocker (most amazing dog ever) ... this time we went the rescue route (personal decision) but wanted to stick with spaniels (as that’s what we were used to) .. adopted an amazing pure bred springer from a rescue in January 2019.. and we were delighted. He’s around 2.5 years of age now and is a brilliant dog (perfect for us).

There is no shame in wanting a particular breed as I said we wanted a spaniel (cocker or springer we didn’t mind or spaniel cross) .. we were very lucky. The shame is when people buy a breed from a puppy farmer.. don’t do their research.. they want a dog now .. regardless of the source.

em_cat · 16-01-2021 11:47pm

OP, listen to the people who are saying now isn’t the time, everyone literally want pups and if you feel that your not ready to go the rescue route that’s ok too. Just keep in mind we are literally the puppy farm of Europe and so it is very difficult to Wade thru who is a good breeder and who isn’t.

We want a particular breed in future, but I know someone who knows the breeder so will be in touch to meet and get to know them when the time is right.

One way to know if you find a good breeder not only will they want to meet you, interview and reserve the right to refuse, but you will likely have a year, longer if your looking for a super popular breed, wait. Getting a well bred, well socialised 8 - 10 week pup isn’t something that happens in an instant purchase. The couple of breeders I know, who've been impacted by the pandemic like all of us have are keeping most of their pups from earlier this year as they refuse to sell them to people they can’t interview. It would be better to wait.

borderlinemeath · 17-01-2021 1:37pm

TheTree wrote: »

Im trying to get a purebred puppy. It seems like that makes me a bad person in some peoples eyes.

It doesn't make you a bad person, there's nothing wrong with sourcing a well bred pup of a certain breed if that's what you want/need.

I want a purebred as I've never had one. I wont go into breed as its irrelevant.

Breed is sort of relevant. Certain breeds are puppy farm favourites, others that are technically cross breeds but puppy farmers and byb pass off as "pure breeds" are where you'll really fall into trouble when sourcing pups.

I want a puppy, less than 6 months as I decided it will give us best chance to have a well trained dog and I like puppies.

Everyone likes pups. But pups are hard, hard work. And they grow quickly. And need lots of socialisation and exposure to other dogs and humans of all sizes and ages to ensure they grow into a well rounded confident dog. And right now that isn't really happening with a global pandemic restricting peoples movements, puppy clubs, socialisation etc.

There's a thing called the "fear imprint window" - up to a certain age, pups are like a sponge, they will take in all experiences and roll with it, so to speak. In or around 4 months of age, a neuron that activates fear switches on in their brain and suddenly new things can become fearful. That's why it's so, so important to try and get a lot of real life experiences into their first few months. The breeder is also a big part of this - they should be breeding pups and helping them experience a lot within their first 8 weeks. Again - this can't be done by most of them to the best of their ability right now. So in turn - they are not breeding until after restrictions are lifted. In fact, a decent breeder who will look for a complementary sire for their bitch, cannot travel in the first place for a mating to take place.

Anyway, it seems impossible to get this while not invoking the scorn of the pro dog rights crowd.
I contacted the only registered ikc breeder I could find months ago. They gave me vague answers, said they have no dogs and now just fog me off.

It's probably true if they are a good, ethical breeder, for all the points listed above.

I looked up various dog shelter type sites for last few months and never have any success. Am I a bad person for wanting a specific purebred?
There are several adds listed on sites like dogs.ie which I am now tempted to just go with and take the chance. They are selling from anywhere between 750 - 2k. Prices dont matter to me too much.

If you're looking for a specific breed, there are specific breed rescues that might be able to help you. This is where knowing the breed could point you in the right direction. I have 5 dogs, 4 are rescues. All the same (pure)breed too. 3 of them arrived when they were 1-2yrs of age, and all easily trainable once you find their motivation. Even the elder lady who arrived when she was 8 is fully trained.

I have gone down other avenues but the whole area is a mess.

Yes, it is a mess. A shortage of pups and a whole lot of people now working from home who previously couldn't consider owning a dog have caused prices to skyrocket and an epidemic of dog thefts by the more nefarious members of society. Not just content with robbing dogs, they will break into properties and steal entire litters - and have been known to cut microchips out of dogs they steal to make them untraceable. In all honesty, right now I wouldn't want to be walking down the street showing off a new puppy, you have no idea who might be watching you.

bertiebomber · 18-01-2021 1:18pm

i have had dogs for about 50 years in the 70's bred miniature daschunds. Dont breed now i have lurchers & terriers and 2 pedigree dogs . The pedigrees are a Belgian shepherd & a Bernese mountain dog.

The pedigrees spend the most time at the vets the shepherd for his ears he has terrible discomfort and the bernese for various tumours she grows regularly her hips also give her some gip.

In my life i have owned pure bred labs, foxhounds, daschunds miniature & standard, springers and mongrels the mongresl lived the longest were the healtiest and gave the most fun to the family . the pedigrees had the most anxieties, & health issues. If you really want a family dog i would highly recommend a springer spaniel or a mongrel .. Nowadays they are not called mongrels they are mixed breed cocka doo, cocka poo all sorts of ridiculous names but essentially a mongrel. The best dog of all.

tk123 · 18-01-2021 3:40pm

bertiebomber wrote: »

i
In my life i have owned pure bred labs, foxhounds, daschunds miniature & standard, springers and mongrels the mongresl lived the longest were the healtiest and gave the most fun to the family . the pedigrees had the most anxieties, & health issues. If you really want a family dog i would highly recommend a springer spaniel or a mongrel .. Nowadays they are not called mongrels they are mixed breed cocka doo, cocka poo all sorts of ridiculous names but essentially a mongrel. The best dog of all.

Fairplay - I think you demonstrated perfectly what the OP is experiencing?

OP you'll get used to comments from people - everyone always has an opinion about your dog and will be only too happy to share it with you lol. You need to choose your dog's breeder wisely - not all breeders are breeding to the same standards which in turn could cost you a lot of time/effort/money trying to manage. A reputable breeder doesn't need to advertise their pups as already mentioned - they have waiting lists in some cases before the dog is even in heat. (I'm on a list myself atm) They'll always take a dog back too - they're not going to arrive into rescues on the 1st of Jan each year with their napkins tied to a stick.

Rescuing or buying you'll get used to phrases that are used to tug on heart strings - eg it was the last pup/last 2 pups that have to be homed together, it's a failed gun/sheep dog, it's cheaper for you if the pups aren't registered (when it costs €20), it's a pandemic so they're charging €1500 more than the breed club breeder etc etc..I could go on and on. My vet nearly choked laughing when the I mentioned the cross breeds are healthier myth to her lol.. And from sitting outside the vets every week while my dog gets laser therapy and being a member of arthritis (all dogs get arthritis too btw - some owners are more aware than others) and even kidney disease FB groups - there are as many "purebreds" as there are crosses going to the vet/getting sick...

Knine · 18-01-2021 3:45pm

bertiebomber wrote: »

i have had dogs for about 50 years in the 70's bred miniature daschunds. Dont breed now i have lurchers & terriers and 2 pedigree dogs . The pedigrees are a Belgian shepherd & a Bernese mountain dog.

The pedigrees spend the most time at the vets the shepherd for his ears he has terrible discomfort and the bernese for various tumours she grows regularly her hips also give her some gip.

In my life i have owned pure bred labs, foxhounds, daschunds miniature & standard, springers and mongrels the mongresl lived the longest were the healtiest and gave the most fun to the family . the pedigrees had the most anxieties, & health issues. If you really want a family dog i would highly recommend a springer spaniel or a mongrel .. Nowadays they are not called mongrels they are mixed breed cocka doo, cocka poo all sorts of ridiculous names but essentially a mongrel. The best dog of all.

The healthiest for me are our pure breeds. Our most recent cross breed was put to sleep last month. Plagued with health issues all his life. We have a lovely collie cross that died of heart failure only 4 years of age. Cross breeds don't always live longer

[Deleted User] · 18-01-2021 3:55pm

It is possible to find pure breeds in rescue.

When I was looking for a dog I knew what breed I wanted and I made my interest known to several rescues, and kept in touch with them through their online forums. I got to know a few people and about 8 months later, when one came into rescue they called me first without even putting her up on the site. I had her for over 12 years until she passed away last November.

I won't condemn you for wanting to buy a pure breed, but i would encourage you not to take shortcuts and to put your name down with a reputable breeder, and wait for a healthy puppy. You can keep an eye on rescue sites in the interim as pure breeds do show up more often then you'd expect. That's what I'm going to do, when I'm ready for another dog.

deadlybuzzman · 19-01-2021 1:56am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is possible to find pure breeds in rescue.

When I was looking for a dog I knew what breed I wanted and I made my interest known to several rescues, and kept in touch with them through their online forums. I got to know a few people and about 8 months later, when one came into rescue they called me first without even putting her up on the site. I had her for over 12 years until she passed away last November.

I won't condemn you for wanting to buy a pure breed, but i would encourage you not to take shortcuts and to put your name down with a reputable breeder, and wait for a healthy puppy. You can keep an eye on rescue sites in the interim as pure breeds do show up more often then you'd expect. That's what I'm going to do, when I'm ready for another dog.

I got a scott line american bulldog from a rescue. Twice I've had strangers walk up to me offering money to get pups off her and people come over to say hello to her because she's a striking specimen of a dog
That said I definitely didn't see that coming as she looked so gangly and awkward as a pup when we got her and obviously a rescue will never have any papers

[Deleted User] · 19-01-2021 12:25pm

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

I got a scott line american bulldog from a rescue. Twice I've had strangers walk up to me offering money to get pups off her and people come over to say hello to her because she's a striking specimen of a dog
That said I definitely didn't see that coming as she looked so gangly and awkward as a pup when we got her and obviously a rescue will never have any papers

Something similiar happened to me! I was walking her one day when a man approached me. He said he was involved in the breed club and was I considering showing her as she was "show standard" (his words).

I explained she was only our pet and a rescue and he stood there gobsmacked. He said he couldn't believe a "dog like her" (again, his words) had ended up in a rescue.

(Not that I ever cared about that stuff, all I wanted was a dog with a nice nature, I'd have a mixed breed in the morning, if it was the right dog!)

josip · 19-01-2021 7:13pm

We got our pure bred puppy from a breeder in September.
We got a breed we were familiar with already, which we felt suited our family and we felt we had a better chance of ending up with a well socialised and trained dog.
We took it a couple of weeks early from the breeder so that we could socialise it a bit more.
We don't think we were bad people to want a particular breed of dog.

cocker5 · 19-01-2021 7:31pm

josip wrote: »

We got our pure bred puppy from a breeder in September.
We got a breed we were familiar with already, which we felt suited our family and we felt we had a better chance of ending up with a well socialised and trained dog.
We took it a couple of weeks early from the breeder so that we could socialise it a bit more.
We don't think we were bad people to want a particular breed of dog.

A couples of weeks early?
As in less than 8 weeks? So U took the dog at 6weeks?

[Deleted User] · 19-01-2021 8:02pm

josip wrote: »

We got our pure bred puppy from a breeder in September.
We got a breed we were familiar with already, which we felt suited our family and we felt we had a better chance of ending up with a well socialised and trained dog.
We took it a couple of weeks early from the breeder so that we could socialise it a bit more.
We don't think we were bad people to want a particular breed of dog.

I don't think anyone has said anyone is a bad person for wanting a particular breed of dog.

What they have said is if you want a particular breed then be prepared to go on a waiting list for a pup from a known breeder. Buying a pup of a website the chances are high what you're buying is a puppy farm dog.

The ironic thing is, your chances of ending up with a sick / unsocialised pup are much higher that way.

No decent breeder would ever allow a pup to be taken from its mother too early.

Cherry Blossom · 19-01-2021 8:13pm

Look it’s like this, different folks have different ideas about what’s ethical. Do your research on puppy mills and back yard breeders and be aware that the vast majority of puppy sellers will not be honest with you. If you’re prepared to take a chance on health issues and temperament then you are the one who has to live with potential consequences. If you are buying a pup from a questionable source though do yourself a favour and get excellent pet insurance.

alroley · 19-01-2021 10:07pm

I've had two dogs.

The first was a mix of who knows what from a family friend that had two intact dogs that of course led to puppies. That dog died from mitral valve disease leading to congestive heart failure.

My other dog is a purebred dog from a show breeder. He now has mitral valve disease too.

Both dogs were healthy until they hit old age. Neither were at the vet for anything other than vaccinations and teeth cleaning until they were elderly.

josip · 19-01-2021 10:30pm

cocker5 wrote: »

A couples of weeks early?
As in less than 8 weeks? So U took the dog at 6weeks?

No, we took it at 8 (and a half) weeks instead of the 10 weeks that the breeder normally prefers to give them at.

cocker5 · 19-01-2021 10:49pm

josip wrote: »

No, we took it at 8 (and a half) weeks instead of the 10 weeks that the breeder normally prefers to give them at.

Phew ok! Enjoy your pup!

New Dog Ethics

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