SMACKDOWN LIVE SUPERTHREAD

JP Liz V1 · 10-01-2021 12:26am

PTH2009 wrote: »

What a bizarre ending

Adam Pearce is number 1 contender ?

I read Adam Cole

I didn't see the show but how did the GM become Reigns next title opponent

ThePott · 10-01-2021 12:55am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I like my wrestling booking to make sense and if you think it's interesting then more power to you but I'm struggling to find a way in which that storyline would lead to anyone saying "gee can't wait to see where this goes"

And yet it's currently a non wrestler booked in a title match.

It's gotten to the point where even just the willingness to tell a story merits praise? Just because they're attempting to tell a story doesn't mean the story is any good! And maybe it won't end with Pearce challenging, though if you can point me to anyone on the Snackdown side that they've built as a legitimate challenger then be my guest because I see nobody.

I see enough to know that Reigns has already beaten Owens twice (?) in the last month and Nakamura is now a career mid carder. I don't think it's asking that much for a company to have a decent challenger lined up for the 2nd biggest show of the year but maybe I'm wrong and that's just fine and acceptable these days.

I can assure you wholeheartedly, my investment in WWE has never been lower. And who sees Roman Reigns and their first thought is cowardly heel champion? Seriously how is that the direction you go with that guy?

Also the left field thing to me is a cover for we've not got anything else. Maybe Lynn/Omega would be fun, maybe Reigns/Pearce will be fun. But not a World Title match at the Rumble.

And finally I'll say this. None of it matters, they don't care how dumb it is. WWE is not only the only wrestling company I can think of where the more attention you pay it, the less enjoyable it is, it's the only media output I can think of that does that. If you pay it any heed at all, if you think about it at all, your enjoyment goes down rather than up. Let's see who Reigns actually wrestles at the Rumble and let's see how it works.

I don't see what doesn't make sense. Roman abused his power at the top as he's a heel to get someone who he sees as not a challenge to be his challenger. He's a cowardly heel but not presented as such. Not going to defend every member of the gauntlet match but still. 'Currently' being the key word, the story is unfinished and you're jumping on it as if it's done and dusted.

I wasn't praising them for telling a story, you can check my history I give WWE enough sh*t for their storylines, I'm praising this being unpredictable, different and giving us options as to where it can go. Your points about opponents makes no sense. Kevin Owens has been beaten twice, yes. That would be dreadful except you are deliberately ignoring that he has only lost those times due to interference from Jey Uso. Playing into Roman being a cowardly heel once again, you can't ignore that to suit your point. Funny how in the other thread we're debating about Nakamura not being used properly and now that they're pushing him into the title scene it's not acceptable. There's no such thing as the perennial mid-carder maybe this is the start of a new renaissance for Nak in WWE or maybe it's a push that goes no where, we'll see.

I don't think we'll ever agree, we can leave it there, I don't mind. I think my interest in Raw is certainly at an all-time low but on Smackdown there's at least some aspects that interest me and one of those is Reigns and how this plays out, sure I'm not the only one.

Is it amazing storytelling? No could it be a good story when it's all played out? Maybe, maybe not. For now it has me invested though. I'll take it over Goldberg/McIntyre and Orton/Fiend though.

beakerjoe · 10-01-2021 2:24am

It amazes me that with the talented roster WWE has that they have no well built challengers for BOTH top belts.

Like it boggles the mind how they cant keep.... i dunno 3 or 4 wrestlers booked stronger and go over over the course of year to challenge at a big 4 PPV.

Lets say its Nakamura. Hes capable. Plan ahead, say in June you map out Romans return. Jey Uso, Kevin Owens and Nakamura are your guys feuding with Roman from Sept thru Feb. Just 3 guys.

So in June until Roman faces them, you keep all 3 away from eachother, you let them get over in their feuds and matches. Just keep them strong. Let the fans know that these guys can be challengers. No clean losses, no making them look like dweebs, protect them.

Just 3 guys from June. You do that and you might think they ahve a chance at beating Roman.

All 3 are booked winning and losing in nothing matches. No feuds for Uso. No feuds for Owens (bar that stupid, pointless feud with A. Black in which they both jobbed out to Daba Kati, who then was jobbed out by Strownman a week later and gone) and a half a feud for Naka against Street Profits in whivh he lost regularly.

Why would anyone believe they would beat Roman.

I sure as hell dont. And look how simple it is for them to make someone get a feeling Owens, Uso or Naka. Wach had ine segment that you thought.... maybe, maybe they have a chance..... but that segment was immediately followed up by bollox. They lose, they lose heat, they look foolish.

WWE are in capable of forward planning beyond 3 weeks.

PTH2009 · 10-01-2021 2:34am

An authority figure getting abused while the 'real bosses' stay quiet in the background . Big bad Triple H needs to stop this and will challenge Roman Reigns at Mania

Jesus it is a strong possibility

LineOfBeauty · 10-01-2021 3:06am

ThePott wrote: »

I don't see what doesn't make sense. Roman abused his power at the top as he's a heel to get someone who he sees as not a challenge to be his challenger. He's a cowardly heel but not presented as such. Not going to defend every member of the gauntlet match but still. 'Currently' being the key word, the story is unfinished and you're jumping on it as if it's done and dusted.

I wasn't praising them for telling a story, you can check my history I give WWE enough sh*t for their storylines, I'm praising this being unpredictable, different and giving us options as to where it can go. Your points about opponents makes no sense. Kevin Owens has been beaten twice, yes. That would be dreadful except you are deliberately ignoring that he has only lost those times due to interference from Jey Uso. Playing into Roman being a cowardly heel once again, you can't ignore that to suit your point. Funny how in the other thread we're debating about Nakamura not being used properly and now that they're pushing him into the title scene it's not acceptable. There's no such thing as the perennial mid-carder maybe this is the start of a new renaissance for Nak in WWE or maybe it's a push that goes no where, we'll see.

I don't think we'll ever agree, we can leave it there, I don't mind. I think my interest in Raw is certainly at an all-time low but on Smackdown there's at least some aspects that interest me and one of those is Reigns and how this plays out, sure I'm not the only one.

Is it amazing storytelling? No could it be a good story when it's all played out? Maybe, maybe not. For now it has me invested though. I'll take it over Goldberg/McIntyre and Orton/Fiend though.

OK so in what way is he not presented as a cowardly heel? How about this, in 3 weeks time we'll see where it went and you can tell me if I was correct or not.

A Nakamura renaissance? Any glimmer of a chance of that guy being a money making difference maker died a death the date he debuted on NXT. Vanished. Gone. And at this stage, you could give him 4, 5 World Title reigns til he retires, wouldn't matter a jot, he'd be a "star" in the WWE sense but not in a real way, not in a way that makes any kind of difference. There's a difference between guys that are in the Title scene (your Otis, Miz,Wyatt's of the world) and real difference makers at the top of the card (Lesnar, Cena, Rousey). So I'm confused, because I know that Reigns is a cowardly heel, are we accepting that's what he is?

Anyway I've probably spent more time talking about it than they have thinking about it so I should probably stop.

ThePott · 10-01-2021 11:49am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

OK so in what way is he not presented as a cowardly heel? How about this, in 3 weeks time we'll see where it went and you can tell me if I was correct or not.

A Nakamura renaissance? Any glimmer of a chance of that guy being a money making difference maker died a death the date he debuted on NXT. Vanished. Gone. And at this stage, you could give him 4, 5 World Title reigns til he retires, wouldn't matter a jot, he'd be a "star" in the WWE sense but not in a real way, not in a way that makes any kind of difference. There's a difference between guys that are in the Title scene (your Otis, Miz,Wyatt's of the world) and real difference makers at the top of the card (Lesnar, Cena, Rousey). So I'm confused, because I know that Reigns is a cowardly heel, are we accepting that's what he is?

I've said he's being presented as a cowardly heel, just not in the traditional sense, compare his booking to the other times they've had a cowardly heel champion. WWE doesn't make the stars you're looking for anymore which is a totally valid criticism. Pointing to Rousey is stupid considering she was a star before coming to WWE. You keep going on about money as if there's any major money draws in WWE, that ship has long sailed maybe they can turn it around but acting like it would change overnight if they made Nakamura is a ludicrous claim in my opinion. As for waiting 3 weeks, I didn't say one way or another what would happen just that I thought it was an interesting story where the ending isn't as clear cut as most people suggest and then you went off the handle about stars and Nakamura and all this nonsense.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Anyway I've probably spent more time talking about it than they have thinking about it so I should probably stop.

Apologies Mr. All Knowing LineOfBeauty sir, I didn't mean to question your wisdom and knowledge :rolleyes:

LineOfBeauty · 10-01-2021 12:17pm

ThePott wrote: »

I've said he's being presented as a cowardly heel, just not in the traditional sense, compare his booking to the other times they've had a cowardly heel champion. WWE doesn't make the stars you're looking for anymore which is a totally valid criticism. Pointing to Rousey is stupid considering she was a star before coming to WWE. You keep going on about money as if there's any major money draws in WWE, that ship has long sailed maybe they can turn it around but acting like it would change overnight if they made Nakamura is a ludicrous claim in my opinion. As for waiting 3 weeks, I didn't say one way or another what would happen just that I thought it was an interesting story where the ending isn't as clear cut as most people suggest and then you went off the handle about stars and Nakamura and all this nonsense.

Apologies Mr. All Knowing LineOfBeauty sir, I didn't mean to question your wisdom and knowledge :rolleyes:

Made in WWE or not, she's a difference making star that is on a different end of the spectrum to your Wyatts, Ortons or whoever else.

My point was simply this. Nakamura could have gotten to the star level of a special attraction that would've bumped a rating or network subs had they booked him correctly in 2016, I absolutely believe that.

Apology accepted. We'll put this behind us and say no more.

ThePott · 10-01-2021 12:24pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Made in WWE or not, she's a difference making star that is on a different end of the spectrum to your Wyatts, Ortons or whoever else.

My point was simply this. Nakamura could have gotten to the star level of a special attraction that would've bumped a rating or network subs had they booked him correctly in 2016, I absolutely believe that.

Apology accepted. We'll put this behind us and say no more.

You can't brush aside her being a star before she came to WWE as that's exactly the point. She was a big star NOT because of WWE she already was a name before she got there. She was booked as a star because she already was one.

While we agree that Nakamura could have been handled better the idea that he could have been that big a star is just wrong imo and partly it's WWE booking but the other half of that is that he is clearly either not on the level he used to be or just not interested in delivering the same level of performance that he did in NJPW.

You can leave it there so if you want

LineOfBeauty · 10-01-2021 12:39pm

ThePott wrote: »

You can't brush aside her being a star before she came to WWE as that's exactly the point. She was a big star NOT because of WWE she already was a name before she got there. She was booked as a star because she already was one.

While we agree that Nakamura could have been handled better the idea that he could have been that big a star is just wrong imo and partly it's WWE booking but the other half of that is that he is clearly either not on the level he used to be or just not interested in delivering the same level of performance that he did in NJPW.

You can leave it there so if you want

I'm not saying WWE made Rousey, that would be mental. I'm using her as an example of what a money drawing star is. WWE made or not. That's literally the only reason Rousey has been mentioned here.

Ultimately you go back to the in ring a lot, but, taking this year for example, have WWE's main event wrestlers been having banging matches that I've not seen? Because I don't think that's possible. Has Nakamura since 2016 been any worse than AJ Styles this year? Seth Rollins? Randy Orton? Bray Wyatt?

ThePott · 10-01-2021 1:37pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm not saying WWE made Rousey, that would be mental. I'm using her as an example of what a money drawing star is. WWE made or not. That's literally the only reason Rousey has been mentioned here.

Ultimately you go back to the in ring a lot, but, taking this year for example, have WWE's main event wrestlers been having banging matches that I've not seen? Because I don't think that's possible. Has Nakamura since 2016 been any worse than AJ Styles this year? Seth Rollins? Randy Orton? Bray Wyatt?

You're missing what I'm saying. You can't equate a money drawing star from outside WWE and then say WWE should do that. It doesn't work that way. If they signed a massive celebrity or athlete to a contract it would draw money because of their outside appeal. WWE make a star within the confines of their own bubble, sometimes they break out of it most of the time they're a big deal within WWE and that's it. Even saying a Cena or Lesnar is a star, does them being around boost ratings, sure. Does it keep people around, no. Money drawing stars are still only drawing money from the same pool as always, the need to expand that pool and that's not as easy as making a new star. A Rousey that draws people outside of wrestling works. Your idea of a money drawing star is just outdated, they need someone who can burst out of that bubble, that is not a Nakamura and to be honest I don't know who it is or could be for WWE.

Why do you think people are only talking about Nakamura again now? It's because he actually put some effort in and delivered. A lot of the wrestlers you have named have either had decent segments or matches and been relatively consistent. Nakamura shows up once a year at best. You can lead a horse to water and all that, if he puts on a good match people show interest (like now) if he rarely ever offers much then people forget about him. It's a two way street.

LineOfBeauty · 10-01-2021 2:03pm

ThePott wrote: »

You're missing what I'm saying. You can't equate a money drawing star from outside WWE and then say WWE should do that. It doesn't work that way. If they signed a massive celebrity or athlete to a contract it would draw money because of their outside appeal. WWE make a star within the confines of their own bubble, sometimes they break out of it most of the time they're a big deal within WWE and that's it. Even saying a Cena or Lesnar is a star, does them being around boost ratings, sure. Does it keep people around, no. Money drawing stars are still only drawing money from the same pool as always, the need to expand that pool and that's not as easy as making a new star. A Rousey that draws people outside of wrestling works. Your idea of a money drawing star is just outdated, they need someone who can burst out of that bubble, that is not a Nakamura and to be honest I don't know who it is or could be for WWE.

Why do you think people are only talking about Nakamura again now? It's because he actually put some effort in and delivered. A lot of the wrestlers you have named have either had decent segments or matches and been relatively consistent. Nakamura shows up once a year at best. You can lead a horse to water and all that, if he puts on a good match people show interest (like now) if he rarely ever offers much then people forget about him. It's a two way street.

I'd love to know what's outdated about my perception of a star. So, you tell me what you think a star is, I'll tell you what I think a star is, and let's see where we land because me giving examples of stars has only led to tangents which have nothing to do with the point I'm making.

I don't think that's it. I think it's because it looks like he's about to be shoehorned into a World Title match on their 2nd biggest show of the year only a couple of weeks after losing clean to Otis in a few minutes on TV and after years of doing nothing in the mid card. Which if you want to give them a pass and say "none of it matters anyway" then fair enough I can't argue with that. But aside from that, I can't see what other defence there is for that kind of shoddy storytelling.

ThePott · 10-01-2021 2:42pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'd love to know what's outdated about my perception of a star. So, you tell me what you think a star is, I'll tell you what I think a star is, and let's see where we land because me giving examples of stars has only led to tangents which have nothing to do with the point I'm making.

I don't think that's it. I think it's because it looks like he's about to be shoehorned into a World Title match on their 2nd biggest show of the year only a couple of weeks after losing clean to Otis in a few minutes on TV and after years of doing nothing in the mid card. Which if you want to give them a pass and say "none of it matters anyway" then fair enough I can't argue with that. But aside from that, I can't see what other defence there is for that kind of shoddy storytelling.

A star would be someone who transcends the wrestling business, maybe we have different definitions and that's why we are disagreeing. When I say transcend I mean that they are known and can attract people who are not wrestling fans.

Again this didn't start about the booking of Nakamura (that's our debate in the other thread) this was about the possibilities of the story and whether Pearce is going to wrestle. I agree Nakamura should have been built up more to be considered for the gauntlet, hell I said ages ago I can't defend every entrant in the gauntlet. Just that this story interests me, doesn't mean it can't be done better, I never said that. WWE rarely offer even a story that interests me so I welcome the change.

LineOfBeauty · 10-01-2021 2:56pm

ThePott wrote: »

A star would be someone who transcends the wrestling business, maybe we have different definitions and that's why we are disagreeing. When I say transcend I mean that they are known and can attract people who are not wrestling fans.

Again this didn't start about the booking of Nakamura (that's our debate in the other thread) this was about the possibilities of the story and whether Pearce is going to wrestle. I agree Nakamura should have been built up more to be considered for the gauntlet, hell I said ages ago I can't defend every entrant in the gauntlet. Just that this story interests me, doesn't mean it can't be done better, I never said that. WWE rarely offer even a story that interests me so I welcome the change.

We definitely have different definitions because by that definition I'd argue there's probably only been maybe a dozen pro wrestlers in the history of the sport that have ever existed in North America. My definition is definitely a bit broader than that.

There's no point debating the interest of your interest in a story, that's up to you. I'd just say it's a story that, to me right now, makes little sense.

Loughc · 10-01-2021 3:10pm

Me every time I click into this thread lately.

ThePott · 10-01-2021 3:14pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

We definitely have different definitions because by that definition I'd argue there's probably only been maybe a dozen pro wrestlers in the history of the sport that have ever existed in North America. My definition is definitely a bit broader than that.

There's no point debating the interest of your interest in a story, that's up to you. I'd just say it's a story that, to me right now, makes little sense.

Maybe but I definitely think there is some that have come close, I just don't think under modern circumstances that Nakamura ever could have been it.

That's cool, I'm not saying the whole thing makes sense either, I'm just interested to see how it plays out. If it having some inconsistency means you can't enjoy it at all, that's totally cool, to each their own. I can be like that with some movies so I get it.

Loughc wrote: »

Me every time I click into this thread lately.

Ooof don't click into the Random Wrestling Thoughts then :pac:. Even if we disagree I appreciate the debate and apologies to other posters for being spammed.

LineOfBeauty · 10-01-2021 3:17pm

Alright I'm aware we're probably destroying the Smackdown thread (or giving it a much needed boost!) and fair enough I think we've landed on something here. Our definition of a star is different so never gonna find common ground on that and I can't change anyone's interest level in a storyline and we'll see how it plays out when the Rumble card is confirmed.

ThePott · 10-01-2021 3:24pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Alright I'm aware we're probably destroying the Smackdown thread (or giving it a much needed boost!) and fair enough I think we've landed on something here. Our definition of a star is different so never gonna find common ground on that and I can't change anyone's interest level in a storyline and we'll see how it plays out when the Rumble card is confirmed.

Fair and if it ends up a total disappointment which it often does that's cool too. For now at least it has my interest, come back in a few weeks when I'm dumping on the whole thing

beakerjoe · 10-01-2021 3:29pm

FYI I mean this in a light hearted way. Its a respectful debate as far as I can see.

LineOfBeauty · 10-01-2021 3:30pm

ThePott wrote: »

Fair and if it ends up a total disappointment which it often does that's cool too. For now at least it has my interest, come back in a few weeks when I'm dumping on the whole thing

Haha I'll be lurking in the shadows. Tbh I think I was only hot about it cos I'm gonna watch the Rumble show so I'm hoping for a hot card!

ThePott · 10-01-2021 4:13pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Haha I'll be lurking in the shadows. Tbh I think I was only hot about it cos I'm gonna watch the Rumble show so I'm hoping for a hot card!

Hoping for the same, mind you still can't get used to Rumble without fans, just glad Edge returned last year and not this one.

Ridley · 10-01-2021 9:16pm

Well, I found Smackdown interesting although hard to engage with the main event as a match since none of the participants have been anywhere near the main event lately and the winner was a given once Pearce was in it.

I'm also so very tired officials with a wrestling background turning into glass the moment they're not an active competitor.

JP Liz V1 · 15-01-2021 11:32pm

A contract signing tonight

CastorTroy · 16-01-2021 12:26am

Nakamura vs Jey Uso as well

PTH2009 · 16-01-2021 1:21am

and the first night of the SD tag team title reign of the Bad Dogs or whatever Roode/Ziggler are calling themselves

Be cool if Adam Pearce done a battle royal and the winner replaces him in the title match at the RR.

Pcgamer · 16-01-2021 2:08am

This head of the table is starting to get old.

PTH2009 · 16-01-2021 2:09am

Jey Uso entering the rumble and if he wins he's going to Raw to challenge for the WWE Title

PTH2009 · 16-01-2021 2:41am

Apollo Crews joining Roman then

Something new for Apollo I suppose

J. Marston · 16-01-2021 2:43am

Seems WWE are using that fancy new camera they're using in the NFL for celebrations. It looks incredible.

PTH2009 · 16-01-2021 4:00am

That's that then Adam Pearce can't be medically cleared for the RR and will be replaced by Kevin Owens

Officer999 · 16-01-2021 11:31am

That was a really good episode of Smackdown again. It’s way ahead of Raw at the minute.

SMACKDOWN LIVE SUPERTHREAD

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