Advise needed- 30 cows not in calf- what are options...

Mooooo · 25-11-2019 1:33pm

Dairy cow's I assume? Once breeding starts I don't cut back on ration until it ends. Others do and it works fine but I'm not at that level yet. In order to prevent a repeat of what happened this year a system will have to be put in place to ensure it doesnt

jus_tin4 · 25-11-2019 1:47pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

So many reasons why that many cows are empty ,could be disease like ibr ,lepto,could be minerals like copper/selenium /iodine ,could be nutritional ,could be a case of just not been picked up etc the actual scan results versus what a lot of lads quote needs to be taken into account too .from vets /scanners this year heifers seem to be very good but cows are very hit and miss empty rates of up to 20% and higher are very common
At this stage no point creating a row just off load the culls and buy back in calf stock .work with vet to put vaccination plan in place .on an aid to picking up cows in heat a simple relatively low cost system is moo call heat ,tags on cows ,collar on bull and when in heat I get a text to your phone

What would cause those diseases? In recent memory there has never really been any underlying conditions other than an odd cow with a cyst...

With the moo call, I’m guessing it doesn’t have to be a bull? I’m guessing a bullock could be use for the same purpose?

jus_tin4 · 25-11-2019 1:51pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Dairy cow's I assume? Once breeding starts I don't cut back on ration until it ends. Others do and it works fine but I'm not at that level yet. In order to prevent a repeat of what happened this year a system will have to be put in place to ensure it doesnt

Yeah, while I say it’s pulled back it’s not a hard line that it’s cut. It maybe cut back in term of quantity but it depends on how the cows are going and the grass quality..

Yeah while my aim is to try to fix it, my goal is to put something in place to stop it. Moocall looks like the recommended option which would allow me to monitor it for my mother while I work my day job.

Our scenario isn’t straight forward and ideally I’d prefer to be in the farm, but it isn’t an option at this point t in time due to a number of reason I don’t want to discuss in public...

Thanks again for all the help

Millionaire only not · 25-11-2019 1:58pm

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

I wonder is this common ? My young lad was out on work experience lately Scannimg and he said there was a heap of cows empty , one was 17 out of 50 and 30 out of 80 in 2 yards he was in

It’s common , but people don’t talk !
Plus heap of disease out there all covered up , virus’s infected since calves never milk to full potential !
Cows milking hard are more prone to nic

I often wonder about high milking cows should they be asked to back in calf in a 12 month cycle- ur stopping them in prime production from making money !

Millionaire only not · 25-11-2019 2:07pm

jus_tin4 wrote: »

Yeah, while I say it’s pulled back it’s not a hard line that it’s cut. It maybe cut back in term of quantity but it depends on how the cows are going and the grass quality..

Yeah while my aim is to try to fix it, my goal is to put something in place to stop it. Moocall looks like the recommended option which would allow me to monitor it for my mother while I work my day job.

Our scenario isn’t straight forward and ideally I’d prefer to be in the farm, but it isn’t an option at this point t in time due to a number of reason I don’t want to discuss in public...

Thanks again for all the help

I’d be more inclined to put in more bulls , if ur not there urself to pick up heats !
I always keep bulls changed around as they will go infertile at some period in the year or so they say !
Heat detection aids are only as good as the person that’s overseeing it !
Plus they cost a fortune

25-11-2019 2:39pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

So many reasons why that many cows are empty ,could be disease like ibr ,lepto,could be minerals like copper/selenium /iodine ,could be nutritional ,could be a case of just not been picked up etc the actual scan results versus what a lot of lads quote needs to be taken into account too .from vets /scanners this year heifers seem to be very good but cows are very hit and miss empty rates of up to 20% and higher are very common
At this stage no point creating a row just off load the culls and buy back in calf stock .work with vet to put vaccination plan in place .on an aid to picking up cows in heat a simple relatively low cost system is moo call heat ,tags on cows ,collar on bull and when in heat I get a text to your phone

A little ironic telling him to buy in more cows but then telling him about disease and vaccination problems. He needs to pinpoint why a third of the herd are not performing before he buys more problems

Buford T. Justice XIX · 25-11-2019 2:40pm

jus_tin4 wrote: »

No I think you picked me up wrong/my explaination wasn’t correct!

These same cows all went in calf on the majority on their first serve with a new AI person last year. So I guess my reasoning is I’m cutting that out at a factor for this issue..

I believe the main problem was the change over/break down in communication si cows weren’t caught and served again if needed

Just on that, were there any signs of heat in the cows since being served? Hair gone off the tail head or the the pin bones bruised?

If there was sign of heat then I'd say just a breakdown in communication but if there was no signs of heat in most of them, I'd be looking at embryo losses or reabsorbed after going incalf. That would push me in the direction of some disease or change of significant change of feed or management during or after the breeding season?

25-11-2019 2:50pm

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I’d be more inclined to put in more bulls , if ur not there urself to pick up heats !
I always keep bulls changed around as they will go infertile at some period in the year or so they say !
Heat detection aids are only as good as the person that’s overseeing it !
Plus they cost a fortune

If everything else is ok , 2 bulls in from the start would probably prevent this sort of problem

blue5000 · 25-11-2019 4:25pm

How much N are you using in Spring Justin? High N can cause embryonic loss. Are you blanket spreading urea by any chance?

Millionaire only not · 25-11-2019 11:52pm

I’ve often seen that cows only show heat after being scanned or handled , would have shown nothing before this !
There is a lot of problems being covered up listening to the lads scanning going around the country
Cows not being fed , listening to Teagasc , we were always thought when breeding season on ewes there diet had to be a rising platter for breeding season .

Why should cows be any different , grass just not good enough !

older by the day · 26-11-2019 12:33am

A vectomised bull with heat seekers on the cows back might work. What I would do is AI for a few weeks and an Angus bull to mop up. Sell him away after a month. But I would ask a vet and get a few blood tests done, if u haven't

jus_tin4 · 29-11-2019 6:18pm

Just a very quick update!

So we relooked at all the information we had regard and it may not be as bad as i first thought!

We have talked to the vet and he is happy that there is no underlying issues that we arent already aware off!

Secondly the AI ,am also gave good reports of the cows. He is a local lad and would be a good man for finishing and he said our cows are the best he is serving(there is a long pedigree in our heard with zero animal bought in - we most focues on dairy i should say but would carrying dairy beef just by the nture of things)

The clear thing is the lads working fecked up....

our solution is to now be on high alert to catch any heats even if it is our of our normal cycle!

Plan to also bring in moo call once the cows are back out as if we put a a tease in now it could result in injuries with him getting bullied and the sheds arent the biggest for that sorta thing!

Anyways! Thanks for all the advice and opinions! Gave me alot of food for thought!

greysides · 29-11-2019 8:40pm

As a monitoring method, you could arrange regular visits from your vet over the breeding season. During these visits all cows not seen in heat after six weeks calved, all cows that had any calving or illness issues since calving, etc, and all cows not repeating six weeks after AI could be examined to resolve problems or confirm pregnancy.
This should allow any problems to be picked up earlier. All cows could be checked again around drying off to find any that lost calves at a later stage.

Advise needed- 30 cows not in calf- what are options...

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