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Germany: every petrol station must offer electric charging

  • 06-06-2020 7:29pm
    #1
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,745 ✭✭✭✭


    Linky


    I'm not a fan of this kind of interference in the market at a micro level I have to say. A 20-30c increase in fuel duty per liter will make much more of a difference and would also part finance the enormous black financial hole we are in because of COVID-19

    What say you?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    unkel wrote: »
    Linky


    I'm not a fan of this kind of interference in the market at a micro level I have to say. A 20-30c increase in fuel duty per liter will make much more of a difference and would also part finance the enormous black financial hole we are in because of COVID-19

    What say you?

    Not sure about the rest of ye, but I visit petrol/charging stations a hell of a lot less now compared to with my old Ice car. We shouldn't need a charge point per petrol station. I'm sure in Ireland the government would consider a 3 pin socket as a charge point anyways.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    unkel wrote: »
    Linky


    I'm not a fan of this kind of interference in the market at a micro level I have to say. A 20-30c increase in fuel duty per liter will make much more of a difference and would also part finance the enormous black financial hole we are in because of COVID-19

    What say you?

    Your idea would be pretty regressive IMO. I'd love to go electric if could afford it. As it is it's mostly the better-off who can afford it (with subsidies), adding another 15-25% to fuel bills for people running older cars which are better for the environment (than building a new one for everyone) doesn't seem fair to me.


  • #4
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    unkel wrote: »
    Linky


    I'm not a fan of this kind of interference in the market at a micro level I have to say. A 20-30c increase in fuel duty per liter will make much more of a difference and would also part finance the enormous black financial hole we are in because of COVID-19

    What say you?

    Leave fuel prices alone

    If electric is going to make it, its gotta do it on its own back

    A big recession coming and you want to add 30c a litre on to fuel to pay for battery cars

    If anything Covid has shown what a waste of money all this green tax crap and government EV incentives have been

    WFH has done more for emissions than any of that rubbish

    People are barely driving now with WFH, many are not going to be any rush paying for over priced EVs, most of us will be happy to have a job soon


  • #5
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,252 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    unkel wrote: »
    Linky


    I'm not a fan of this kind of interference in the market at a micro level I have to say. A 20-30c increase in fuel duty per liter will make much more of a difference and would also part finance the enormous black financial hole we are in because of COVID-19

    What say you?

    I’d say there’s plenty of people who can’t afford to buy a electric vehicle and a 20-30c increase is far from fair.
    I’m not sure if you are referring to Ireland in the end of your post. But cars are not made in Ireland. Encouraging someone to buy a new car actually drives money out of the economy.


  • #6
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    ted1 wrote: »
    I’d say there’s plenty of people who can’t afford to buy a electric vehicle and a 20-30c increase is far from fair.
    I’m not sure if you are referring to Ireland in the end of your post. But cars are not made in Ireland. Encouraging someone to buy a new car actually drives money out of the economy.

    We must support our oil industry instead, I'd hate to lose all those jobs in our oil fields.


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  • #7
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,428 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Your idea would be pretty regressive IMO. I'd love to go electric if could afford it. As it is it's mostly the better-off who can afford it (with subsidies), adding another 15-25% to fuel bills for people running older cars which are better for the environment (than building a new one for everyone) doesn't seem fair to me.

    Not really. I paid less than €10k for a 3 year old Leaf electric.
    Then the ongoing savings on insurance, motor tax and running costs were really
    Substantial.


  • #8
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Not really. I paid less than €10k for a 3 year old Leaf electric.
    Then the ongoing savings on insurance, motor tax and running costs were really
    Substantial.

    True

    A 100km range car isnt a solution to most people

    The one that is suitable, 2018 Leaf in 2021 will not be less than 10k


  • #9
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,428 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    True

    A 100km range car isnt a solution to most people

    The one that is suitable, 2018 Leaf in 2021 will not be less than 10k

    Yes that’s true enough but we have now gone from them being too expensive to they don’t suit my driving.

    Once the range suits you they work. Not everyone.


  • #10
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    liamog wrote: »
    We must support our oil industry instead, I'd hate to lose all those jobs in our oil fields.

    For the moderator of this forum thats a very disappointing post and indicative of the close-knit behaviour in this sub-forum

    Petty, sarcastic and childish reply Liam


  • #11
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Yes that’s true enough but we have now gone from them being too expensive to they don’t suit my driving.

    Once the range suits you they work. Not everyone.

    Exactly

    Range no longer an issue with modern EVs, they are good enough to stand on own feet now and dont need silly government interference with 30c added to fuel to force people into them imo

    Anyone buying a new car would be foolish to not look at an EV

    Especially something like a 3 series Bmw vs Tesla Model 3 etc and soon to be VW Golf vs VW ID3


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  • #12
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,745 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Ah come on lads, you can buy a Nissan Leaf from not much more than €3-4k. And it will have a lower total cost of ownership than the cheapest banger someone will give you for free.

    Less of the arm chair socialism here please, EVs are only for the rich, me bollicks :rolleyes:


  • #13
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    unkel wrote: »
    Linky


    I'm not a fan of this kind of interference in the market at a micro level I have to say. A 20-30c increase in fuel duty per liter will make much more of a difference and would also part finance the enormous black financial hole we are in because of COVID-19

    What say you?

    What say me? Jog on with your tax increase.


  • #14
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,745 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    What say me? Jog on with your tax increase.

    How do you think we are going to pay for the COVID-19 dole payments? That's billions we will have to recoup. Expect plenty of tax increases. Excise increases are the least painful to implement (lowest level of protest) and the easiest to collect. Lowest hanging fruit of them all.


  • #15
    marklazarcovic
    Registered Users Posts: 6,208 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    Every town and village in the country should at least
    have one charger here,not free of course.


  • #16
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    unkel wrote: »
    How do you think we are going to pay for the COVID-19 dole payments? That's billions we will have to recoup. Expect plenty of tax increases. Excise increases are the least painful to implement (lowest level of protest) and the easiest to collect. Lowest hanging fruit of them all.

    Which is why the €10,000 government incentive for EVs should be dropped

    We need that money for more important things right now

    EU need to rethink those carbon emission targets for countries and automakers

    WFH has reduced emissions more than EVs have ever done in Europe


  • #17
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,745 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    Which is why the €10,000 government incentive for EVs should be dropped

    We need that money for more important things right now

    Agreed. When you've run out of money, forget about the carrot. Use the stick.


  • #18
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    unkel wrote: »
    How do you think we are going to pay for the COVID-19 dole payments? That's billions we will have to recoup. Expect plenty of tax increases. Excise increases are the least painful to implement (lowest level of protest) and the easiest to collect. Lowest hanging fruit of them all.

    I thought the EU going to help us out this time.


  • #19
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,745 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    I thought the EU going to help us out this time.

    And where do you think the EU is getting the money from? ;)


  • #20
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    unkel wrote: »
    When you've run out of money, forget about the carrot. Use the stick.

    Said like a true socialist :D.

    To be fair guys, unkel did also strongly advocate for €1.00+ per kWh, for public charging, so there's that.
    Makes another 20/30c tax on fuel seem kinda cheap :pac:.


  • #21
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    unkel wrote: »
    And where do you think the EU is getting the money from? ;)

    Printing their own money.


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  • #22
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,381 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    unkel wrote: »
    Ah come on lads, you can buy a Nissan Leaf from not much more than €3-4k. And it will have a lower total cost of ownership than the cheapest banger someone will give you for free.

    Less of the arm chair socialism here please, EVs are only for the rich, me bollicks :rolleyes:

    And how many of these cheap leafs are there to go around?

    A few for the entire country.


  • #23
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    Which is why the €10,000 government incentive for EVs should be dropped

    We need that money for more important things right now

    EU need to rethink those carbon emission targets for countries and automakers

    WFH has reduced emissions more than EVs have ever done in Europe

    True, but how much of the population can work from home? How many will choose to do so when offices reopen?

    Cars will be back on the roads in no time (you can already see it happening sure). End of the day, in Ireland you're going to own a car, it's going to contribute to emissions, and we're going to get fined for missing our emissions targets. EVs are a way towards keeping cars and lowering emissions.

    The 10k government incentive is going to disappear at some stage, but doing so now means no/few EVs will be bought. EVs need to get a foothold so people "take them seriously" and can buy a few cheaper second hand. You even mentioned earlier that those buying new would be foolish not to look at EVs. Those EVs on the road means less dirty air to breath in, less people getting sick with, or dying of respiratory illnesses. There's a cost to those too on our healthcare.

    As for taxing fuel, christ, is it not taxed enough? Don't know what's going to pay for the pandemic recession, but taxing fuel without adequate public transport (outside of (ironically named considering the conversation) "the big smoke") is quite frustrating to put things lightly.


  • #24
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,745 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    Printing their own money.

    Quantitative easing. It's magic! Money for nothing and you can do it without any consequences :p


  • #25
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    And how many of these cheap leafs are there to go around?

    A few for the entire country.

    Sounds like we need to give more people an incentive to buy new EVs so there's a better second hand market... let's say... €10k off


  • #26
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    unkel wrote: »
    Quantitative easing. It's magic! Money for nothing and you can do it without any consequences :p

    Just like your infinite cheap leap cars. :)


  • #27
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,381 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Sounds like we need to give more people an incentive to buy new EVs so there's a better second hand market... let's say... €10k off
    And yet an electric Kona is still €40k

    Manipulating the market doesn’t work IMO, and forcing the masses to further subsidize the drivers that have an EV adds insult to injury.

    We can’t all switch to EV tomorrow, so why subsidize them so much while the tech is still only progressing.


  • #28
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,252 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    liamog wrote: »
    We must support our oil industry instead, I'd hate to lose all those jobs in our oil fields.

    I’ve a petrol car. Fully paid for. , don’t do much mileage. It’s a 2005. Forcing me to buy an EV would send 30,000 euro out if the country. That’s about 30+ years of oil.

    At the moment it makes no sense to force people to change


  • #29
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,252 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Sounds like we need to give more people an incentive to buy new EVs so there's a better second hand market... let's say... €10k off

    No, we need to get people out of private motor vehicles. EV’s do nothing to get rid of traffic. In fact as once you have one they are so cheap to run they might encourage people to drive more.


  • #30
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    And yet an electric Kona is still €40k

    I don't think you'll find many of us here recommending it as good value. So in ways we need the 10k incentive, but manufactures need to bring prices down. Unfortunately from what i've heard, they don't need to see EVs to meet their emissions targets, hence the wave of piss poor hybrids every car manufacturer has these days.


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  • #31
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    ted1 wrote: »
    No, we need to get people out of private motor vehicles. EV’s do nothing to get rid of traffic. In fact as once you have one they are so cheap to run they might encourage people to drive more.

    Agreed. Any day now we'll have an adequate public transport system... any day now

    (not aiming this at you, it's just when is the private car replacement ever going to materialise? Until it does, private cars all the way)


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