Will any sportives go ahead in 2020?

Harrybelafonte · 16-05-2020 9:04pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Despite the fuzzy advice from CI, my club is recommending to members that they continue to ride solo within the 5km circle.

I’m beginning to suspect you wanted some loophole to be proclaimed. I found nothing fuzzy in their advice. Probably as their advice is what I had already garnered from the State’s advice.

I’d appreciate an explanation as to how it was fuzzy and what exactly youfeel unclear about?

Mercian Pro · 16-05-2020 9:54pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I’m beginning to suspect you wanted some loophole to be proclaimed. I found nothing fuzzy in their advice. Probably as their advice is what I had already garnered from the State’s advice.

I’d appreciate an explanation as to how it was fuzzy and what exactly youfeel unclear about?

I probably should have made it clearer in my previous post that I strongly agree with the advice from my club, had pushed for it and feel that CI should have taken a similar line.

The recent CI advice is essentially a single sentence that reads: "Members are encouraged to carefully assess their route and the potential risks to establish whether 4 people cycling a minimum of 2 metres apart constitutes a hazard and is safe within your locality." Given the lack of any clear evidence on what constitutes a safe distance when cycling behind someone, I cannot imagine any situation on an open road where cycling 2 metres apart does not constitute a hazard. I cannot really understand the references to "assessing the route" and "within your locality" but maybe I am missing something.

eeeee · 16-05-2020 10:03pm

Sweet divine.
The current state guidelines state that you cannot exercise beyond your 5km radius.
The current state guidelines state that you must socially distance 2m minimum away from the 4 people you are now allowed to exercise with if you are not from the same household.
The CI advice aligned directly with those two directives.

What about that is difficult to understand? I am struggling to see how it can be clearer. The GOVERNMENT has laws that prohibit exercise beyond a 5k radius from your house. It has also stipulated social distancing guidelines of 2m from people not within your household. It has allowed exercise with up to 4 people not from your household as long as social distancing is upheld. CI are an NGB, they are not the government, they have stuck exactly to the government advice, I am really struggling to see what possible further clarification can be needed? Guidelines here: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/ad5dd0-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-may-18-phase-1/

For the love of goodliness do you want CI to come over to your house and take you out by the hand?!! :pac:

CramCycle · 16-05-2020 10:05pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Despite the fuzzy advice from CI, my club is recommending to members that they continue to ride solo within the 5km circle.

Good advice

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I’m beginning to suspect you wanted some loophole to be proclaimed. I found nothing fuzzy in their advice. Probably as their advice is what I had already garnered from the State’s advice.

I’d appreciate an explanation as to how it was fuzzy and what exactly youfeel unclear about?

I thought it was a nice placation by them. They copied the government guidelines exactly. They didn't tighten them up, I would have but they know if they did you'd have complaints. They done the right thing. Some people needed CI to say something so they rightly repeated government advice.

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I probably should have made it clearer in my previous post that I strongly agree with the advice from my club, had pushed for it and feel that CI should have taken a similar line.

The recent CI advice is essentially a single sentence that reads: "Members are encouraged to carefully assess their route and the potential risks to establish whether 4 people cycling a minimum of 2 metres apart constitutes a hazard and is safe within your locality." Given the lack of any clear evidence on what constitutes a safe distance when cycling behind someone, I cannot imagine any situation on an open road where cycling 2 metres apart does not constitute a hazard. I cannot really understand the references to "assessing the route" and "within your locality" but maybe I am missing something.

Giving people who don't get it straight away enough to figure it out on their own that if you follow the rules, you can't group ride. Regrettably if you said that straight out, some would say that's not government guidelines. By giving them the choice to assess the route, unless they've are thick, they'll realise they can't but be happy they figured it out rather than being told.

eeeee · 16-05-2020 10:07pm

From the CI site:

"The easing of restrictions during phase 1 allows for a limited return of certain cycling activities. Groups of up to 4 people may cycle within a 5km radius of their home while maintaining social distancing requirements. Members are encouraged to carefully assess their route and the potential risks to establish whether 4 people cycling a minimum of 2 metres apart constitutes a hazard and is safe within your locality."

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/cycling-news-item/phase-1-return-of-cycling-activities/27510

I don't see how it could possibly be any clearer.

Mercian Pro · 16-05-2020 10:39pm

I admire your optimism but, unfortunately, confidently expect to see plenty of cyclists out cycling in groups from Monday.

16-05-2020 10:43pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I admire your optimism but, unfortunately, confidently expect to see plenty of cyclists out cycling in groups from Monday.

That'll be Tuesday, on Monday everyone will be hitting the gardening centers :pac:

dastardly00 · 16-05-2020 10:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That'll be Tuesday, on Monday everyone will be hitting the gardening centers :pac:

They have to squeeze in a round of golf as well don't forget

CramCycle · 16-05-2020 10:53pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I admire your optimism but, unfortunately, confidently expect to see plenty of cyclists out cycling in groups from Monday.

It's not optimism, building sites have been open for days against guidelines. Streets in my local town are wedged during the day. I hope I'm wrong but I think we ****ed ourselves. The government were too trusting of our ability to follow simple guidelines. The Gardai were too soft on people. The terrible thing is, I can't tell if it's a lack of understanding or that some simply don't care. Unless we are incredibly lucky, there will be a second wave shortly.

dastardly00 · 16-05-2020 10:58pm

CramCycle wrote: »

It's not optimism, building sites have been open for days against guidelines. Streets in my local town are wedged during the day. I hope I'm wrong but I think we ****ed ourselves. The government were too trusting of our ability to follow simple guidelines. The Gardai were too soft on people. The terrible thing is, I can't tell if it's a lack of understanding or that some simply don't care. Unless we are incredibly lucky, there will be a second wave shortly.

Well looking at the Boards.ie Strava club today it's pretty clear that a lot of people don't give a fcuk about the 5 km rule anymore

DelBoy Trotter · 17-05-2020 12:24am

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I admire your optimism but, unfortunately, confidently expect to see plenty of cyclists out cycling in groups from Monday.

I’ve seen groups of 2 and 3 cycling together for the last 2 weeks unfortunately

RobFowl · 17-05-2020 2:42pm

Cast not the first stone.

Try to follow the guidance and stay safe.

There is some return to normality and looks like we will have sportif's and races from Aug 10th.

We are awaiting clearer guidance from the subgroup on returning to sport (which has little expertise on cycling unfortunately) but with contact sport being allowed from then bunch cycling looks like it will be no great problem.

Remember lockdown was a holding measure to allow us prepare, it is not and never was supposed to be along term new way of living.

Government and CI both doing their best in a rapidly changing environment.

Eamonnator · 17-05-2020 5:03pm

RobFowl wrote: »

Cast not the first stone.

Try to follow the guidance and stay safe.

There is some return to normality and looks like we will have sportif's and races from Aug 10th.

We are awaiting clearer guidance from the subgroup on returning to sport (which has little expertise on cycling unfortunately) but with contact sport being allowed from then bunch cycling looks like it will be no great problem.

Remember lockdown was a holding measure to allow us prepare, it is not and never was supposed to be along term new way of living.

Government and CI both doing their best in a rapidly changing environment.

That has just put the whole thing in perspective for me. Thank you.
E.

Chumpski · 18-05-2020 11:37am

Will any racing actually go ahead in phase 4 or 5 I wonder? The government and CI guidelines say that it will be limited to races within your county.

Most of the time we travel, 1or 2 counties away, if not large distances across the country to go to a race.

Race organisers have been saying how attendance is down in recent years and some races are not viable to run.

Just wondering your thoughts all?

magicbastarder · 18-05-2020 11:47am

if CI had their arse in gear, they'd be on to dublin airport to allow the use of the main runway for a socially distanced short TT event for an hour or two.
the number of flights in and out of the airport is down by a factor of about 30.

it'd be great fun.

Beasty · 18-05-2020 11:48am

TTs are possible from Phase 4, but any RRs in Phase 5 may be limited to club leagues, as I think long-distance travel will continue to be discouraged.

I also think the idea of large groups on the road needs to be considered from a public perspective. If people are still restricted on where they can go,and social distancing is still required for activity in general, we don't want a public backlash because a group of 100+ are riding down main roads.

I do think club racing groups of say 10-15 in a group will be more "palatable" as an initial step

dahat · 18-05-2020 11:59am

In order for events to kickstart they could run limited number events? A cap of 50-60 per race? This may not be viable long term but for a shorter season increased entry with a cap may be something to look at.

mamax · 18-05-2020 12:07pm

Beasty wrote: »

TTs are possible from Phase 4, but any RRs in Phase 5 may be limited to club leagues, as I think long-distance travel will continue to be discouraged.

re: Time Trials, I was looking at TT's from phase 2 if you have a small group and assign each of them a starting time to roll up for and start/finish and have No contact with any other person and they are within their 20km from home.
I know our club which has a small number of TT participants each year could do the above, clubs with a lot of members maybe not, but could do it over 2 evenings.
Anyone here started planning club TT's yet be nice to have opinions of how to do it safely.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7ae99f-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-june-8-phase-2/

Group exercise
People can take part in outdoor sporting and fitness activities, involving team sports training in small groups (but not matches) where social distancing can be maintained and where there is no contact.

eeeee · 18-05-2020 2:17pm

Not possible or viable.
Travel any distance is prohibited, and to get the numbers to make it viable as an organizer would be impossible.
If there's an incident or accident marshalls will have to be in close contact with a rider down, so it's a big ask of volunteers.
Plus i can't help feeling the ppe required to facilitate a race day, even just a tt day is needed elsewhere, although that'd a shyte argument tbf.
To do a tt with viable numbers, you run into issues with toilet facilities, first aid/ ambulance cover etc.

Tt's might be possible after August, I don't see how anything else could go ahead before then.

Plus I don't think I want to be in a bunch of people from all over the place snotting and spitting through a race, not knowing how they've managed lockdown themselves and how many people they've been in contact with.

I can either race or see my family really. It's been 3 months already since I've seen my family, with high risk parents, I won't sacrifice that for a bike race. I think there will be plenty similar.

Harrybelafonte · 18-05-2020 2:23pm

eeeee wrote: »

Not possible or viable.
Travel any distance is prohibited, and to get the numbers to make it viable as an organizer would be impossible.
If there's an incident or accident marshalls will have to be in close contact with a rider down, so it's a big ask of volunteers.
Plus i can't help feeling the ppe required to facilitate a race day, even just a tt day is needed elsewhere, although that'd a shyte argument tbf.
To do a tt with viable numbers, you run into issues with toilet facilities, first aid/ ambulance cover etc.

Tt's might be possible after August, I don't see how anything else could go ahead before then.

Plus I don't think I want to be in a bunch of people from all over the place snotting and spitting through a race, not knowing how they've managed lockdown themselves and how many people they've been in contact with.

I can either race or see my family really. It's been 3 months already since I've seen my family, with high risk parents, I won't sacrifice that for a bike race. I think there will be plenty similar.

This 100%. It's the only one of the Velominiati Rules I'd break. Family before bikes.

RobFowl · 18-05-2020 4:25pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

This 100%. It's the only one of the Velominiati Rules I'd break. Family before bikes.

You don't have my Ma.....

at1withmyself · 18-05-2020 4:28pm

RobFowl wrote: »

You don't have my Ma.....

We've all had your ma.......

Sorry couldn't resist

RobFowl · 18-05-2020 5:20pm

at1withmyself wrote: »

We've all had your ma.......

Sorry couldn't resist

I know, you Ma told me..

(sorry)

ratracer · 18-05-2020 5:39pm

I was holding out great hope of the Wolftrap Sportive in September, but they’ve cancelled it last week. Don’t think we’ll see many other large events going ahead! ;(

wheelo01 · 19-05-2020 1:44pm

Well the Dublin City Marathon has been cancelled, it was scheduled for the last weekend in October, so I'd presume that all big sportives are going yo be called off?

07Lapierre · 19-05-2020 2:06pm

Well Golf resumed yesterday, so IMO their is a precedent set for treating each sport differently. The DCC Marathon is a BIG event! Its what? 10,0000 participants? When you compare that to the WW200 which is 3,000 spread over a 200k route, I think there is still scope for small, outdoor sports to resume. Having said that, the conditions under which they can resume will make them less attractive to take part in.

magicbastarder · 19-05-2020 2:12pm

assuming social distancing would still be in place, and there's no reason to assume otherwise yet, especially for anyone planning such a large event, they can't proceed.
they had 22.5k participants last year; if they all had to maintain a 2m distance, they'd need 9 hectares, or over 20 acres, just to hold them all at the start line. that's almost exactly the size of stephens green, full, no room for anything else.

Macy0161 · 19-05-2020 4:41pm

Still find it hard to see how a sportive can be controlled regarding physical distance. During the WW200 I've ended up in groups big enough that I dropped out of as I felt they were too big for open roads.

I've still the Dirty Reiver and the Lakelander on my calendar, but I suspect if they go ahead that will say more about the UK's response than things having changed enough for me to go (for the reasons eeeee outlined).

RobFowl · 19-05-2020 6:46pm

Social distancing is 2m now, it may not be that in August. It may be 1m or masks may be advised. Lots of things may happen.
Using some of the logic above cycling as a group activity would never happen again.........

TGD · 19-05-2020 8:04pm

dahat wrote: »

In order for events to kickstart they could run limited number events? A cap of 50-60 per race? This may not be viable long term but for a shorter season increased entry with a cap may be something to look at.

Ya, with the right wind conditions, one good snot-blow might just about cover the 50-60

Will any sportives go ahead in 2020?

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