Creche charging for child's place during closure.

Spleerbun wrote: »

My local crèche is paying staff for next two weeks at least anyway while closed, and after that will be reassessed again.

At times like this people have a tendency to only see things from their own point of view, and not realise many are often affected worse than them. Decisions like this aren't always black and white

Not sure if you weren't reading the thread, many parents are well aware that places are not paying staff, regardless the idea of paying full whack for a service not provided is not on.

Have no kids at the age this is needed but just interested. Have most/all creches not also pre-schools so they will be receiving ecce grants for all this time, why would they not pay staff?

Note the Pandemic payment announced today. The creche and any business is asked to keep the workers on their books, pay them €305, then reclaim that from the Govt. So creches have no wage bill, just overheads at this time.

Have one of the girls from the creche minding ours in the house from next week on. Tenner an hour, very lucky to get her.
Don't fancy paying the creche full whack for April though. Realistically it's going to be closed for April, may and June imo.

enricoh wrote: »

Have one of the girls from the creche minding ours in the house from next week on. Tenner an hour, very lucky to get her.
Don't fancy paying the creche full whack for April though. Realistically it's going to be closed for April, may and June imo.

No doubt the Govt wont inform people in advance, in an effort to try keep businesses afloat, but if this goes on, then the Govt needs to inform us for how long. Ive no intention of paying the next months fee in full, especially with the lack of information so far from the service provider and if its going on for months they can forget about it.
Any claim that we'll lose the place will be worth nothing if they are providing no service for months and anyone who pays is mad. Do they expect us to keep paying? for nothing! And then pay on top of that for childcare elsewhere anyway?

I know many of these businesses will try use the threat no matter how vaguely or nicely its put that children could lose their place, it was used on me before.

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Have no kids at the age this is needed but just interested. Have most/all creches not also pre-schools so they will be receiving ecce grants for all this time, why would they not pay staff?

According to our creche, the funding they receive covers 30% of their overheads, the remainder is covered by the fees we pay.

This is an example of the letters doing the rounds, identifiers removed

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16th March 2020
Dear Parents
I hope you are all keeping well.
I hope that this email will bring some clarity to previous correspondence, along with answering some
questions that have been asked in recent days.

There have been many comments with regard to the saving we may make in terms of light, heat, food (indirect/variable costs). Our variable costs make up a very small percentage of our operating costs. To be completely transparent these costs amount to approximately €3,000 per month on average per crèche. Our labour costs make up the majority of our operational costs.

Separately, we need to be clear that under the business interruption section of our insurance policy, we are not covered in the event that the HSE/Government order a blanket closure of childcare settings. You will be aware of the issues facing the childcare industry in terms of the limited number of insurance providers available to operators – I imagine we aren’t the only provider to find ourselves without cover in this situation.
On Friday the 13thof March we issued correspondence to all parents.
This correspondence explained our approach to the current Government forced closures. Our rationale is based on 1) child safety, 2) understanding the importance of our colleagues to our business and trying to ensure they are with us when we reopen and 3) supporting our families who find themselves with no income during this unprecedented health crisis.
The money saved on indirect costs will primarily go towards helping those families most in need at this time. The small variable cost savings are also helping us make a commitment to pay our colleagues for as long as is humanly possible. This is obviously a financial hit to XXXXX, but one that is necessary keeping sustainability in mind.
We would also like to make you aware that all of our XXXXX colleagues who are being paid are still
working at this time - whether they are catching up on administration, deep cleaning premises, or providing child-minding free of charge to frontline families - every colleague has been given work to continue on with.
Our leadership team is also working closely with key stakeholders to try and open on a small capacity to help frontline medics, who as we know, are needed more than ever. Again, if we are sanctioned to open in these circumstances there will be no charge to the families we help. Furthermore, if the Government gives a subsidy for this service we will directly pass this back to our families.
The public announcement by An Taoiseach Leo Vardakar on Thursday 12th March was when we became aware that all of our services had to close ‪at 6pm‬ that very evening. You will appreciate that we are in the middle of a rapidly evolving situation and nobody has all of the answers at this time. However, we are doing our best to respond to address concerns as soon as they come to our attention.

 At XXXXX we have an ethos of ‘respect for all’ - our children, our families and our colleagues. This ethos makes us who we are. We need to commit to supporting our colleagues with a commitment to pay wages in the short term and hopefully until normality resumes. With this in mind some of our senior executive team are forgoing their wages to help ensure we can do fulfil this our commitment.
We also need your support. In the case you are currently being paid or are on paid holidays, you should honour our fees policy and pay your fees as you agreed when signing your agreement with
XXXXX. If you are in difficulty and are not getting paid, please contact our accounts team. We will request simple vouched documentation of your circumstances and will work to adjust your commitments.
We will be completely transparent in our processes. We will be applying for any pay subsidies and funds available to us in order to support our business. Where we receive funds we will fairly and equally distribute these funds back to families who have supported and paid us during this time.
Our fees policy will stand during this period, as it is correct, fair and moral. It allows us to support our families most at need, our colleagues and to sustain the service once this crisis has ended.
You are within your rights to give the agreed notice to terminate your place at one of our services (30 days written notice). However, by doing so please be aware that places will be offered to families who have been on our waiting list and we cannot guarantee there will be availability should you wish for your child/ren to return to one of our services.
We would like to also highlight the consequences of us not paying our colleagues. The likelihood is that they will find work elsewhere. This will result in XXXXX reducing the number of childcare places available as we will be unable to adhere to ratios in accordance with the childcare regulations. The end result of this being that we will have to shut rooms and give families notice at our services.
Like you, we are hoping for a speedy end to the unprecedented challenges we are facing, which, we will get through together. We have the difficult task of trying to do what we feel is correct in difficult circumstances. It is not a one size fits all matter and as you can imagine with X children attending
our services and the livelihoods of X colleagues to think about, we always try our best to be fair and moral. We would ask that you find it in your heart at this difficult time to do the same.
All of us are going to face hardship during this crisis. However, we hope the social impact of our closure will mean less of us will face the loss of vulnerable loved ones, and hospitals can cope with the numbers who appear needing critical care.

The suggestion by that crèche that their staff will likely find work elsewhere and not come back is bizarre to say the least. Where are they going to find this work? Every crèche in the country is closed and businesses are closing their doors by the dozen resulting in more and more people at home not requiring child care. Other than the HSE I’m not seeing signs of a recruitment drive in any other sector.

Millem wrote: »

Parents are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I presume most places pay a month in advance and pay a month’s deposit, so either way the crèche will get paid till the end of April.

If people don’t pay they lose their places and their deposits. Where I live childcare is impossible to get. Our local crèche have a grand total of 3 baby spots.

If crèches are getting full fees the staff should be paid. There is no excuse.

Don’t think people pay a month deposit to crèches, I never heard of that.

Fireball81 wrote: »

We have (x3)

Ours was €200 per child and will be deducted from our bill after 6 months which funnily is next month.

Fireball81 wrote: »

We have (x3)

Never heard of that before it’s usually a couple of hundred.

AulWan wrote:

If the childminders who mind in their own homes are registered as self employed, they should be able to claim the social welfare payment, if parents can't pay.

This isn't the case. Most minding kids in their own home avail of a scheme like the rent a room scheme. They can earn up to 15k per year tax free. Anyone availing of this scheme won't be paying PRSI & won't qualify for the social welfare benefit payment.

boc121 wrote: »

How much is the dole for a creche worker?

I think 305eur pw is the amount anyone who is applying for the dole under the covid 19 application.
If for example a creche worker earns 600eur pw I think the government should also put in a scheme where the owner has to pay the short fall amount per week like 295eur for up to six weeks (sort of like a statute redundancy pay.) Then the creche owner should reduce the fees to the parents by about 305eur or slightly more as their electricity Bill's will be lower. Then I think the government should also step in and offer some sort of emergency grant to the creche owners and pay double the children's allowance for two months to ALL parents who receive children's allowance
That way no one really loses out.
If creche owners are also still been paid by the government for ECCE schemes etc. Then I think this should also factor into the reduction of fees to parents