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Awww .... my heart bleeds for them.

135

Comments

  • #62
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.


  • #63
    ct5amr2ig1nfhp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Optional for anyone, you can pay the tax if you want. You don't have to be a follower to pay it of course.

    For example, I have no interest in the church (or any religion/faith). However my kids are involved in certain non-religious activities in the community centre attached to the local church. The centre provides a superb venue for various activities and in particular youth groups, so I would be supportive of it in that respect. However you cannot donate directly to the centre, any donation must be made to the church.
    Some people may be ok to donate to the church solely for the upkeep of the centre. But they have no say where their funds are used. We've decided not donate but to get involved and help out in some of the groups who use the venue. Others may not have the time or interest in doing that, so a simple monthly donation may be ideal for those people.
    klaaaz wrote: »
    Why "An optional church tax" , it should be compulsory for all their followers. If you follow that religion, you pay your religious tax to help support your religion. Just like in Germany and other countries and then priests wouldn't have to beg for money.


  • #64
    ct5amr2ig1nfhp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Ok? So lets just forget about all the unforgivable acts from the Catholic Church shall we? Because you know, it's part of our culture. :rolleyes:

    Genocide,
    Crusades,
    Spanish Inquisition,
    The subjugation of women,
    Institutionalized homophobia,
    The raping of children entrusted to their care,
    The covering up of the offenders,
    Magdalene laundries,
    etc. etc.

    The day the catholic church (and religion in general) is eradicated from this earth, it will be one of the greatest days in the history of humankind.
    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.


  • #65
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    Few people carry change or cash anymore. Time for the church to leave a contactless terminal in churches where people can tap and go.

    The days of fumbling for change at the bottom of your wallet are long gone.

    They are reportedly trialing a contactless system for donations in some Dublin parishes at the moment. Though given the age profile of attendees would skew older, a lot of them would still deal mostly in cash I'd guess.


  • #66
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,716 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Karson Broad Bedtime wrote: »
    Ok? So lets just forget about all the unforgivable acts from the Catholic Church shall we? Because you know, it's part of our culture. :rolleyes:

    Genocide,
    Crusades,
    Spanish Inquisition,
    The subjugation of women,
    Institutionalized homophobia,
    The raping of children entrusted to their care,
    The covering up of the offenders,
    Magdalene laundries,
    etc. etc.

    The day the catholic church (and religion in general) is eradicated from this earth, it will be one of the greatest days in the history of humankind.

    Actually the excesses of the Spanish Inquisition are largely myth. Protestant propaganda of the time. The rest of your list, fair enough.


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  • #67
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    Karson Broad Bedtime wrote: »
    Ok? So lets just forget about all the unforgivable acts from the Catholic Church shall we? Because you know, it's part of our culture. :rolleyes:

    Genocide,
    Crusades,
    Spanish Inquisition,
    The subjugation of women,
    Institutionalized homophobia,
    The raping of children entrusted to their care,
    The covering up of the offenders,
    Magdalene laundries,
    etc. etc.

    The day the catholic church (and religion in general) is eradicated from this earth, it will be one of the greatest days in the history of humankind.

    These are human behaviours which would have happened in this country with or without the Church. Overall it has and continues to have a positive influence in Ireland.


  • #68
    The Satanist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 693 ✭✭✭The Satanist


    Burn every church.


  • #69
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    These are the accounts for my local church! If anybody is interested.
    51942473_2314308371935710_951835482315030528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub1-2.fna&oh=e5e380fb23fa3d8bcd1410ce5dab783a&oe=5CDB09EA

    It costs them money to collect money at the cemetery?


  • #70
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    pickarooney wrote: »
    It costs them money to collect money at the cemetery?

    Few funny ones there (I'm no accountant maybe makes sense )

    Insurance claim in and out??
    18k to upkeep the parochial house?
    4k for organ in Cobh?
    18900 going in and out?


  • #71
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    endacl wrote: »
    PrayPal

    I've just stolen that. :)


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  • #72
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.

    It's in decline because people don't see it as relevant to their lives anymore. I don't know how it gets past that when some of its views on social issues are so at odds with modern life


  • #73
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Sorry, don't agree with this.

    I have no sympathy for anything church related. They have sinned too much to get any sympathy any more.

    As for the above statement, I feel sorry for 'good' priests, but only because they continue to believe in an imaginary man who is watching over them and to whom they must dedicate their entire life. Such a waste.

    I could never understand this attitude.

    Notwithstanding the obvious crimes against humanity the Catholic Church as an institution has foisted upon humanity for decades and the many evil priests who thrived in the past and had about as much interest in religion as I have, there are many priests that do genuinely good work for people less fortunate - Fr. Peter McVerry is one and there are countless more the world over.

    It's like saying that one bad guard (of which there are a few in this country) means all guards are corrupt.

    I think it's incredibly simplistic to tar every single priest as the same, which really this is all about.

    What about the other world religions? they are as fanciable as Catholicism; are Tibetan monks to be pitied for their, on paper, frankly ludicrous beliefs pertaining to Budda?

    I'm no fan of the Catholic Church by any means; I find that institution and pretty much every lay follower to be a hypocrite of the highest order (personal experience and I'm from a Catholic background) but I think it's too teenage edge-lord like to declare all priests as total write off scum.


  • #74
    denismc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭denismc


    syboit wrote: »
    Interesting that Mitchelstown parish gave Cobh 4k for organ repairs. Didnt think they would support other parishes like that.
    Maybe they had an organ donor card!


  • #75
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    These are the accounts for my local church! If anybody is interested.
    51942473_2314308371935710_951835482315030528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub1-2.fna&oh=e5e380fb23fa3d8bcd1410ce5dab783a&oe=5CDB09EA
    vicwatson wrote: »
    “Peters pence” €1600.00:D

    I wondered about that one myself!:D:D

    It's a very suspicious set of accounts - an awful lot of expenditure exactly matching income. What the hell are Holy Places for example and how do they conveniently cost exactly as much as they bring in?

    Who get's the 64k wages, and seeing as the parochial house upkeep is covered for 18k what the hell do they spend it on?


  • #76
    ct5amr2ig1nfhp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    The list would be endless, I gave a handful of examples.
    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Actually the excesses of the Spanish Inquisition are largely myth. Protestant propaganda of the time. The rest of your list, fair enough.

    What total and utter rubbish IMHO but I guess it is subjective. I think you'll find that most people would disagree with you on the church being a 'positive influence' in Ireland.
    SoundsRight wrote: »
    These are human behaviours which would have happened in this country with or without the Church. Overall it has and continues to have a positive influence in Ireland.


  • #77
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,336 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    NIMAN wrote: »
    That's what happens when you commit terrible crimes, cover them up, and expect the sheep to let you away with it.

    That cant have helped but I doubt that is the whole picture. Even without that awful stuff, I think the general business model of selling lies to children, and creating cures for diseases you have also created that do not actually exist.... could not really go on forever.

    Not that that business model is entirely dead, it has tangented off into the areas of self help, alternative medicine, and pick up artist woo. But the business model of out and out fantasy and lies just does not seem to hold up so well for them any more.

    You link is rather recent but there were articles I read a few years ago from about 2000 onwards on the same lines...... where Priests were taking second jobs stacking shelves in supermarkets to make ends meet.
    klaaaz wrote: »
    Just like in Germany and other countries and then priests wouldn't have to beg for money.

    Hehehe, here in the town I live in Germany they amalgamated the parish with two others because there was no money. Then they tried to get a priest for this new amalgamation and the only priest they could find AND afford was an imported African one who does not yet speak any German.

    So not only do all the little old country folk now have to travel to a church miles away from their old one for mass, it is also in English which many of them do not even speak.

    Something tells me they do not feel they are getting the value for the Church Tax money they paid all their lives.
    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.

    The second sentence there appears to be a complete non-sequitur to the first however. Even if we were to grant the latter sentence as true.... which I do not..... that does not at all support the first sentence automatically.

    Appeals to culture and heritage of our past tell us nothing about what we benefit from having here today. Starvation and famine are part of what makes up our culture and heritage too. Yet I am pretty much happy that's way in the past (touch wood and all that).

    Is there any actual reason it would be a shame other than appeal to historicity? I can think of none. It is certainly no part of the culture and heritage I identify with today, or anyone I know identifies with. Among my peers and circles the church is something people seem somewhat embarrassed and apologetic about when they meet anyone non-Irish.
    The Satanist wrote: »
    Burn every church.

    No way, they make great music venues when they are converted. One of the best gigs I was ever at was Damien rice in Union Chapel London. Another was glen Hansard in that little chapel in Dingle. There was an amazing David Gray gig at some converted church I can not think of the name of in Dublin up towards vicar street direction.

    Great buildings being wasted on woo and lies. Use them for something useful!


  • #78
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I wondered about that one myself!:D:D

    It's a very suspicious set of accounts - an awful lot of expenditure exactly matching income. What the hell are Holy Places for example and how do they conveniently cost exactly as much as they bring in?

    Who get's the 64k wages, and seeing as the parochial house upkeep is covered for 18k what the hell do they spend it on?

    Wine and bread.


  • #79
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,647 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It's in decline because people don't see it as relevant to their lives anymore. I don't know how it gets past that when some of its views on social issues are so at odds with modern life

    And yet the same logic doesn't apply to another well-known religion and it's relevance to Western societies.

    It's open season on the RCC for years now (and justifiably so), but not an ill word can be said about a far more socially destructive religion or all the - ist and - ism's come out.

    I'm not being smart.. I just find it genuinely interesting why we can attack and dismiss one, but not the other. Funny how the "modern" world works.

    Personally I've no time for religion of any kind but respect people's right to believe in whatever they wish SO LONG AS those beliefs don't negatively affect others or contravene the laws of the State.


  • #80
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Let us know how you feel when your granny's funeral is delayed by a fortnight 'cos no priest is available until then.

    You don't need a priest for a funeral. Anyone can do that.

    I realise that the funeral bit generally takes place after a mass and a priest is needed for the mass, but they aren't needed for the actual funeral bit. Same goes for the rites of committal i.e. the burial.

    And you can schedule the mass for sometime in the future if you want it.


  • #81
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Sorry, don't agree with this.

    I have no sympathy for anything church related. They have sinned too much to get any sympathy any more.

    As for the above statement, I feel sorry for 'good' priests, but only because they continue to believe in an imaginary man who is watching over them and to whom they must dedicate their entire life. Such a waste.

    Thats quite disrespectful. A life is only wasted if the person themselves thinks that they are wasting their life. If they take great pride and joy from spending their life thinking about god, then its the opposite of a wasted life, its a life well lived, just maybe not by the standards of you or I, or many others in this instance


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  • #82
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    And yet the same logic doesn't apply to another well-known religion and it's relevance to Western societies.

    It's open season on the RCC for years now (and justifiably so), but not an ill word can be said about a far more socially destructive religion or all the - ist and - ism's come out.

    I'm not being smart.. I just find it genuinely interesting why we can attack and dismiss one, but not the other. Funny how the "modern" world works.

    Personally I've no time for religion of any kind but respect people's right to believe in whatever they wish SO LONG AS those beliefs don't negatively affect others or contravene the laws of the State.

    I hate all religions so I will be as critical of Islam as Catholicism but seeing as this thread isn't about Islam ....


  • #83
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    I always thought priests took a vow of poverty....

    Not all of them.
    Your Face wrote: »
    Hopefully this and other religions will decline in this country.

    What would that achieve?

    51942473_2314308371935710_951835482315030528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub1-2.fna&oh=e5e380fb23fa3d8bcd1410ce5dab783a&oe=5CDB09EA

    What are 'holy places'? That's one hell of a tax refund. If someone leaves them a gift; house for example, do they include that in their accounts?


  • #84
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    I always thought priests took a vow of poverty.... :p

    This is one of the great misconceptions. All priests and religious do not take a bow of poverty. Only members of certain religious institutes are required to take that particular vow.


  • #85
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,053 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Wine and bread.

    I'd say there's cheese as well, but they didn't note that.


  • #86
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Berserker wrote: »
    Not all of them.



    What would that achieve?

    51942473_2314308371935710_951835482315030528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub1-2.fna&oh=e5e380fb23fa3d8bcd1410ce5dab783a&oe=5CDB09EA

    What are 'holy places'? That's one hell of a tax refund. If someone leaves them a gift; house for example, do they include that in their accounts?

    Holy Places refers to a collection, usually on Good Friday, towards funding parishes in, and their involvement in maintaining sites, in the Holy Land.

    The tax refund is the usual tax rebate available to charities on annual contributions over a certain value, for which the contributor has given permission for it to be redeemed from Revenue.


    Income and expenditure from special collections will always match, as the proceeds are passed on to the cause involved.


  • #87
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Never thought I'd see a thread taking pleasure in people not getting paid for doing their jobs ... but there you have it.


  • #88
    topmanamillion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.

    It represents too much of what was wrong with historic Ireland to be any sort of a loss.
    I'd have no issue with a couple of cathedrals and churches around the country being used as museums to house art and religious artifacts. I think that would tick the box of acknowledging it as a part of our history.

    The churches stance, and subsequent overwhelming defeat, in both the marriage equality and abortion referenda show it and its views are completely irrelevant to the majority of Irish people.


  • #89
    redbedhead
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭redbedhead


    VeryTerry wrote: »
    Far better organisations than these have lost out to progress, like Xtravision.
    Maybe the RCC can set up little kiosks in Supervalu?


  • #90
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,247 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Skyla Attractive Boar wrote: »
    Never thought I'd see a thread taking pleasure in people not getting paid for doing their jobs ... but there you have it.


    They are one of the richest organisations in the world. Let headquarters pay their staff.

    Can't believe people give them money tbh.


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  • #91
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    redbedhead wrote: »
    Maybe the RCC can set up little kiosks in Supervalu?


    They beat you to it. Heard about this on the news a while back.

    Confession Kiosk


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