Honda potentially closing factory in UK

micks_address · 18-02-2019 4:06pm #1

https://www.independent.ie/business/world/honda-to-close-uk-car-plant-in-2022-putting-3500-jobs-at-risk-report-37826766.html

I guess they will use brexit as an excuse/reason. Where will European cars be built? I think the current civic saloon is built in turkey.

Cheers,
Mick

Alanstrainor · 18-02-2019 4:47pm

https://twitter.com/JustinTomlinson/status/1097507582820995072

Hard to believe a conservative MP on that take though. Japan and the EU have a lovely new trade deal, it makes sense if with Brexit uncertainty tbh. It looks like the plant will remain open until 2022 anyway, so it's nothing immediate.

Leonard Hofstadter · 18-02-2019 5:22pm

For reference, this is what the same MP tweeted just over a month ago.

https://twitter.com/JustinTomlinson/status/1083410541463437312

Head in the sand and ignorance of how the modern world works doesn't begin to describe it....

What will probably happen is that the likes of Nissan, BMW etc will do the same as Honda, there will be no immediate loss of jobs, but as replacement models fall due they will be built elsewhere, either in the EU/customs union (nothing stopping the likes of Toyota doing this, since they make European market cars in both Turkey and France as well as the UK) or else they'll do what Honda are doing and go back to making the cars in Japan, after all the 10% WTO tariff is being phased out from now on before eventually being abolished in 2027.

Companies who have plants in other EU/customs union countries may not even wait that long (especially if the same model of car that is built in the UK is built in another EU/customs union country), much easier for them to move production when they already have European wide supply chains, and they have no tariffs from the get-go.

samih · 18-02-2019 5:27pm

Global trends, i.e. both UK and USA building walls and messing up with the global free trade. It's interesting that in a city that has 3500 workers directly involved with a global corporation, that is exporting 90 percent of it's produce, people should majorly vote for the Brexit.

Anjobe · 18-02-2019 5:30pm

Same with Sunderland, which is even more dependent on the Nissan factory.

hi5 · 18-02-2019 5:32pm

The EU have also recently signed a trade deal with Japan so no duty or tariffs now anyway
Also standards have been harmonised between Japan and the EU also.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-6784_en.htm

CJhaughey · 18-02-2019 5:36pm

JLR- scaling back and moving to Slovakia
Ford - making noises about pulling out.
Honda- Going 2022
Nissan - Scaling back

The Brexit fantasy is starting to bite and hard, I feel for the workers but I can't help thinking that there is going to be ugly scenes in the near future in the UK.

banie01 · 18-02-2019 5:39pm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JustinTomlinson/status/1097507582820995072

Hard to believe a conservative MP on that take though. Japan and the EU have a lovely new trade deal, it makes sense if with Brexit uncertainty tbh. It looks like the plant will remain open until 2022 anyway, so it's nothing immediate.

European production is being consolidated in Japan precisely because the Japanese recently negotiated an FTA with the EU.
Why keep production in the UK when tariffs as a result of bungled are likely?

ednwireland · 18-02-2019 5:39pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

JLR- scaling back and moving to Slovakia
Ford - making noises about pulling out.
Honda- Going 2022
Nissan - Scaling back

The Brexit fantasy is starting to bite and hard, I feel for the workers but I can't help thinking that there is going to be ugly scenes in the near future in the UK.

my brother law works for a car parts manufacturer they stockpiled parts in europe and are closing for 3 weeks from march 29th and they will see if they reopen after the dust settles. or move production to their european plants.

route66 · 18-02-2019 6:08pm

ednwireland wrote: »

my brother law works for a car parts manufacturer they stockpiled parts in europe and are closing for 3 weeks from march 29th and they will see if they reopen after the dust settles. or move production to their european plants.

For similar reasons, the Mini factory is closing at the same time:

Owner BMW said its summer maintenance shutdown had been brought forward to 1 April to reduce any "possible short-term parts-supply disruption".

Full story here: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45561908

Phil.x · 19-02-2019 9:02pm

I read honda are concentrating on EV cars!? Seems a bit quick.

For Forks Sake · 19-02-2019 11:01pm

Phil.x wrote: »

I read honda are concentrating on EV cars!? Seems a bit quick.

Launching at Geneva next month https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/coming-soon/urban-ev/overview.html

AMKC · 19-02-2019 11:42pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

JLR- scaling back and moving to Slovakia
Ford - making noises about pulling out.
Honda- Going 2022
Nissan - Scaling back

The Brexit fantasy is starting to bite and hard, I feel for the workers but I can't help thinking that there is going to be ugly scenes in the near future in the UK.

Well if the workers were stupid enough to vote for brexit its party there fault. Why feel sorry for someone who was stupid enough to vote brexit in the first place? Honda was never going to say we are pulling out because of brexit because it would not be good for them but its certainly part of the reason for it.

micks_address · 20-02-2019 12:50am

To be honest I don't think brexit is the issue. Honda have lost their way with their model lineup. Who is going to by a crv hybrid that's 42k? The next car down is a Civic that's badly designed for families.. the saloon which is almost Accord size has a stupid engine lineup.. they don't offer the 1.5 petrol in it.. I don't know how many cars they are selling in Ireland but it can't be many. I used to love having a Honda.. the Accord I had was class and still looks well on the road.. why they haven't a tourer or Accord size car baffles me... Why buy a Honda? Used to be reliability, engine, super slick gear boxes.. I'd still maybe fancy a crv.. I could get a manual 1.5 petrol at 34k.. if I want an auto I need to get the range topping model awd over 40k.. the jazz is great, my wife has one and they are bulletproof and I quite like the look of the hrv.. but they have definitely lost their way with the rest of the range. They do seem to sell a lot in the US so maybe the EU/UK market is irrelevant to them.. I suppose with the Civic being a world car design it's largely irrelevant where it's made..

listermint · 20-02-2019 12:51am

The CRV are all over the roads though

bazz26 · 20-02-2019 1:05am

They dropped the Accord as it was too expensive and the segment the Accord is competing in is shrinking and being replaced by models like the CRV because that's what people want. It just cost too much to develop a large saloon specifically for Europe when there wasn't demand for it. The CRV has always been expensive compared to others but it always sold relatively well for Honda. The Civic also sells well for them here given the small dealer network they have here. The Civic model range here is also better now than in previous generations, the saloon is aimed at the more conservative buyer who just wouldn't go with the styling of the hatchback. You can also count on one hand the number of Civic Tourings sold here so you understand why it was dropped.

CJhaughey · 20-02-2019 8:17am

They didn't have to develop a large saloon for Europe, there was already a 9th generation Accord available when they canned the 8th Gen.
Honda UK canned the Accord because it was made in Japan not the UK.
It is a fairly simple thing to have a RHD variant made but they claimed shrinking market share.
I don't see that in evidence with the Passat plenty of them about in Saloon and Estate form.
Honda UK didn't do any advertising for the 8th Generation Accord, can you remember any? I certainly can't like I could for the 7th gen Accord which sold in reasonable numbers.
It's a perfect storm for them but Brexit undoubtedly played a big part in this even if the Japanese aren't saying anything about it.
Go into most showrooms and the Honda lineup is pretty uninspiring, small cars like the Jazz and Civic and the CRV and that's pretty much it.
No Legend, no Accord and nothing with a bit of class which makes them even more downmarket looking.
Fair enough the dealership where I got my Accord Tourer had a NSX in it but there isn't many that would have anything like that.

Azatadine · 20-02-2019 8:35am

I was an Accord driver for multiple generations before they scrapped it. Id be tempted by the current Civic saloon except for the lack of a diesel option with 170 plus BHP.

micks_address · 20-02-2019 8:42am

Azatadine wrote: »

I was an Accord driver for multiple generations before they scrapped it. Id be tempted by the current Civic saloon except for the lack of a diesel option with 170 plus BHP.

Yep that's the issue..Accord drivers tended to be bit older (no offense) and usually want more than 130bhp in a car..

They do have larger saloon cars in the US market.. I'd still be tempted to buy a relatively new Accord from the UK if could get a type S spec.. bizarrely though the type S here had a lower spec engine than the UK..I remember collecting my first Civic back in 2001 and the dealer giving me a spin in his petrol Accord. Felt like a rocket ship..

micks_address · 20-02-2019 8:43am

micks_address wrote: »

Azatadine wrote: »

I was an Accord driver for multiple generations before they scrapped it. Id be tempted by the current Civic saloon except for the lack of a diesel option with 170 plus BHP.

Yep that's the issue..Accord drivers tended to be bit older (no offense) and usually want more than 130bhp in a car..

They do have larger saloon cars in the US market.. I'd still be tempted to buy a relatively new Accord from the UK if could get a type S spec.. bizarrely though the type S here had a lower spec engine than the UK..I remember collecting my first Civic back in 2001 and the dealer giving me a spin in his petrol Accord. Felt like a rocket ship..

What's worse I remember going to see a demo of the Civic saloon last year before launch and it was 1.5 petrol with auto.. just not for this market..

Azatadine · 20-02-2019 8:56am

The last model that I had was the first of the idtec from late 2008. I still see 2014 registered cars and they still look good - much better than 2008 model cars from other manufacturers.

They were thirsty enough though...

bazz26 · 20-02-2019 12:28pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

They didn't have to develop a large saloon for Europe, there was already a 9th generation Accord available when they canned the 8th Gen.
Honda UK canned the Accord because it was made in Japan not the UK.
It is a fairly simple thing to have a RHD variant made but they claimed shrinking market share.
I don't see that in evidence with the Passat plenty of them about in Saloon and Estate form.
Honda UK didn't do any advertising for the 8th Generation Accord, can you remember any? I certainly can't like I could for the 7th gen Accord which sold in reasonable numbers.
It's a perfect storm for them but Brexit undoubtedly played a big part in this even if the Japanese aren't saying anything about it.
Go into most showrooms and the Honda lineup is pretty uninspiring, small cars like the Jazz and Civic and the CRV and that's pretty much it.
No Legend, no Accord and nothing with a bit of class which makes them even more downmarket looking.
Fair enough the dealership where I got my Accord Tourer had a NSX in it but there isn't many that would have anything like that.

The 9th generation Accord was a bigger car again though and was never designed to be adapted for Europe. It made no sense to re-engineer it for the European market when people stopped buying large non premium saloons years back. And the large family saloon market is indeed shrinking. Toyota pulled the Avensis, Ford are going to pull the Mondeo when the current model finishes it's life cycle. The Passat sells well but the estate version matches or outsells the saloon in a lot of it's markets plus the likes of the Tiguan, Tiguan All Space and Skoda Kodiaq are all selling in large numbers now too. VAG also have modular platforms across their entire range with very little adoption needed for a large family saloon or estate. Honda just don't have that versatility and it's hard to invest in it when you don't have the market share in Europe to justify it.

CJhaughey · 20-02-2019 12:46pm

Azatadine wrote: »

The last model that I had was the first of the idtec from late 2008. I still see 2014 registered cars and they still look good - much better than 2008 model cars from other manufacturers.

They were thirsty enough though...

I don't find it that bad, mines a Type S tourer 13 and I am averaging 45-47 all the time with.. spirited driving.
That's with the 180 N22B2.
I think my previous 7th Gen Tourer was about the same with 40hp less.

Azatadine · 20-02-2019 12:49pm

Ah yeah, I was getting around the same so not too bad I suppose. I think I had lower mpg than the previous model so that's all.

CJhaughey · 20-02-2019 12:55pm

Honda already had a Hybrid Accord, RHD, even way back in 2013

https://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/honda/accord+hybrid/24114230/?isNew=1

It wouldn't have taken much to do a few adverts and show it off a little.
Honda UK are mostly to blame though due to their insistence on selling UK built cars not the full range, that's what shrunk their market share as much as the financial crisis.

Too bad there isn't a modern estate from them, I am happy with my ATS and hope to keep it for a good while yet.
Maybe a Legend Hybrid might suit in a few years:D

3.5 and AWD

Mike9832 · 20-02-2019 1:02pm

They could learn alot from Toyota re marketing, brand image, product range

Great cars Honda but they suck at above

VW group make unreliable crap in comparison but unrivaled marketing and product range

UK are ****ed anyway

micks_address · 20-02-2019 2:05pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

They could learn alot from Toyota re marketing, brand image, product range

Great cars Honda but they suck at above

VW group make unreliable crap in comparison but unrivaled marketing and product range

UK are ****ed anyway

I guess at least things are looking up for Honda in formula 1

CrankyHaus · 20-02-2019 2:56pm

There's no real coherence to Honda's Irish line-up. It's just a random assortment of very well made cars with entirely different markets.

Older people seem to love the Jazz. The Civic styling targets a "boy"-racer market that's been shrinking for over a decade.
The CRV sells well, presumably to middle-aged family types.

It's only when you go abroad that you see Honda's across other segments.

Presumably Honda is happy to make bank in the US and elsewhere and just isn't too enthused about the European car market.
I noticed other Japanese companies like Mitsubishi did similar since about 2008.
I wonder to what extent they felt that the EU-wide regulatory push for diesels just made the game not worth the candle and stood back until that ended.

zilog_jones · 20-02-2019 4:11pm

Honda were never really diesel engine manufacturers (whereas they're probably one of the biggest petrol engine makers in the world), it's like they were forced into making them against their own will just for us Europeans, and never really had their heart in it. My speculation anyway

The Jazz was in that slightly larger Japanese supermini segment that never really happened in Europe - along with the Nissan Note that no one cares about, and the Toyota Aqua that they never even bothered selling here. Though it seems the competition has caught up in size, it always cost a bit more than the alternatives.

I think the current Civic's styling is so aggressive that it probably puts off a lot of customers. Boy racers never bought new cars anyway, and they're all in diesel Passats or some muck these days anyway.

micks_address · 20-02-2019 5:34pm

zilog_jones wrote: »

Honda were never really diesel engine manufacturers (whereas they're probably one of the biggest petrol engine makers in the world), it's like they were forced into making them against their own will just for us Europeans, and never really had their heart in it. My speculation anyway

The Jazz was in that slightly larger Japanese supermini segment that never really happened in Europe - along with the Nissan Note that no one cares about, and the Toyota Aqua that they never even bothered selling here. Though it seems the competition has caught up in size, it always cost a bit more than the alternatives.

I think the current Civic's styling is so aggressive that it probably puts off a lot of customers. Boy racers never bought new cars anyway, and they're all in diesel Passats or some muck these days anyway.

yes i think the honda owner said that they never would make a diesel engine.. their first ones were brought in from Suzuki i think?

CJhaughey · 20-02-2019 5:50pm

Honda is the largest petrol engine manufacturer in the world, 14m units per year.
That's not just cars its all engines generators etc.
They came late to diesel but their Diesels are some of the nicest to drive I think.

Honda potentially closing factory in UK

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