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The Truth About Dairy

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,183 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Unearthly wrote: »
    If you type into Google images atheist ads you will see similar Bill boards and bus signs

    I'd agree though it's not the best form of marketing.

    Incidentally the majority of vegans would be atheist/agnostic according to research

    Had a try of that, and apart from one USA based political ad. aimed at some Senator or other, none of the Atheist ads targeted or depicted Religious people in a negative light.

    I do like this one though!

    QfgUGWf.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    emaherx wrote: »
    Indeed they do. And after hours is pretty much that non stop on every topic not just veganism.

    But the vegan and vegetarian forum is where lots of threads are opened with no other intention than to bash farming. People select the worst videos they can find of large industrial farms in countries with very low animal welfare standards then claim all meat/dairy is produced in this manner.

    Then some posters are suprised that farmers respond? Even though these same posters will reply in vegan related threads in other forums like after hours!

    It could be worse for both of us, imagine if we were immigrants/feminists/travellers/ or on the dole.

    The vegan/farmer bashing is small time in comparison :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭emaherx


    I do find it odd though that there are so many threads here bashing livestock farming and not many about the social and environmental impact of producing many of the recommend staple foods of the vegan diet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Unearthly wrote: »
    It could be worse for both of us, imagine if we were immigrants/feminists/travellers/ or on the dole.

    The vegan/farmer bashing is small time in comparison :pac:

    Just be glad you are not an out of work feminist vegan vegetable farmer and claiming the dole.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Unearthly wrote: »
    There are a fair few threads mainly after hours that get started by non vegans with intention to bash it.
    Things can get unnecessarily heated though from both sides (I correctly got a yellow from a mod for a personal attack on Gozunda - sorry Gozunda).

    No worries - I wasn't even aware tbh. There's a difference with threads in AH which just take the proverbial and those genuinly discussing items of interest in the News or wherever whether they be related to veganism or food production / farming or as the case often is both ...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,440 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    emaherx wrote: »
    I do find it odd though that there are so many threads here bashing livestock farming and not many about the social and environmental impact of producing many of the recommend staple foods of the vegan diet.

    Seems to me that many or most vegans are happy with the slaughter of some species to provide their food but look down on others because of the animal they choose to have slaughtered for their plate.

    It’s hard to preach down to us while living such a double standard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,653 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Worztron wrote: »

    Disappointing to read about that. Though the article does place a lot of blame at those holding pens and pencils and not land for the issue. This issue is coming down the tracks like a runaway train in the next few weeks when 2020 calving begins. As yet, no real proposals from Government or their think tanks. It's one of the reasons the beef farmers should be supported as this would give some outlet, as has been in the past, for the calves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭emaherx


    auspicious wrote: »
    A summary of a conversation today between Gerry Boland
    and a Shannon Side radio d.j.
    https://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/roscommon/roscommon-animal-activist-not-surprised-inhumane-calf-killing-claims/


    It's complete BS and easily proveabel as BS. Any farm with an unusually high mortality rate will be visited by department of agriculture inspectors and asked to explain.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Good. I hope it's not true. But I'm hesitant to be as positive as you are. So if you can prove it untrue that'd be great. Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭emaherx


    auspicious wrote: »
    Good. I hope it's not true. But I'm hesitant to be as positive as you are. So if you can prove it untrue that'd be great. Thanks.

    Simple, all calves need to be registered.
    If a farms Dairy cows in particular have no registered offspring it will cause alarm bells with Department and will be inspected as you can't have Dairy cows without registered calves. A sudden change in mortality rates on a farm will also bring on an inspection you'd be talking about half of all of a farms calves.

    We can be gaurunteed an inspection with only small changes, like if 3 sets of twins were born on my farm in a year I'd be inspected and calves genetically tested to prove they were twins.

    What sort of sick twisted individual believes calves are being beaten to death with lump hammers and dosen't report it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,183 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    auspicious wrote: »
    Good. I hope it's not true. But I'm hesitant to be as positive as you are. So if you can prove it untrue that'd be great. Thanks.


    So where are all these thousands of dead calves going?
    On-farm burial is strictly banned.
    They cannot go to a knackery without being registered and tagged, and if they were to be tagged/registered sent to the knackery that will trigger Dept. Ag investigation , as detailed by the poster above.
    (If an animal managed to lose both its ear tags, ordering replacements will flag you as meriting a closer look by veterinary inspectors, do it a few times and you will trigger an inspection).

    I have farmed for 30 years, and NEVER killed a calf/calves , nor heard of anyone who does so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    It didn't mention 'thousands' in the article.
    Thousands or ten, if it's true, which it probably is, it still happened because people buy neat and dairy. That is to say the continued buying of meat and diary perpetuates the chances of animals suffering at the whim of sick in the head farmers.

    The minimum age for exporting the young males is 14 days. Farmers want rid of them after the legal requirement of 10 days of life.

    I wonder which is worse: a lump hammer to the head or to be packed in to the back of a truck ( 189,000 dairy-origin calves were exported up to and including the week ending September 21, 2019 ) at such a young age and transported for 18 hours, maybe 24 or 32 hours with little to no food or water, to the continent and possibly in to the hands of depraved individuals?

    https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2018/0710/977719-animal-transport-regulations/


    https://www.thesun.ie/news/4057005/video-cruelty-calves-ireland-france-cherbourg/


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭emaherx


    auspicious wrote: »
    It didn't mention 'thousands' in the article.
    Thousands or ten, if it's true, which it probably is, it still happened because people buy neat and dairy. That is to say the continued buying of meat and diary perpetuates the chances of animals suffering at the whim of sick in the head farmers.

    The minimum age for exporting the young males is 14 days. Farmers want rid of them after the legal requirement of 10 days of life.

    I wonder which is worse: a lump hammer to the head or to be packed in to the back of a truck ( 189,000 dairy-origin calves were exported up to and including the week ending September 21, 2019 ) at such a young age and transported for 18 hours, maybe 24 or 32 hours with little to no food or water, to the continent and possibly in to the hands of depraved individuals?

    https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2018/0710/977719-animal-transport-regulations/


    https://www.thesun.ie/news/4057005/video-cruelty-calves-ireland-france-cherbourg/

    Regardless one farmer doing it to 10 calves would stand out and be caught, so it couldn't be happening.

    It would make little financial sense either, a live calf leaving the farm could be worth as little as €10 a dead one will cost about €20 for knackery to take.

    If you want this to be a truth about dairy thread at least stick to the facts and not the words of one nut job who made claims backed up by 0 evidence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 FoodC


    I've eaten dairy food.. a lot of dairy food when I was younger.... I had problems with my lymphatic system and I couldn't lose weight at all... also I was eating meat at this time.. It was horrible for my body.
    Then I decided to stop eating dairy.... I started to feel much better after 3 months without milk products.
    After then I got rid of meat and next after 5 months I got rid of fishes and sea animals.
    Today I am 8kg lighter and I feel awesome :)
    We shouldn't torture animals... we shouldn't eat them.. they are our friends.
    People who eat animals right now they also eat animal's fear which is extremely bad


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    FoodC wrote: »
    I've eaten dairy food.. a lot of dairy food when I was younger.... I had problems with my lymphatic system and I couldn't lose weight at all... also I was eating meat at this time.. It was horrible for my body.
    Then I decided to stop eating dairy.... I started to feel much better after 3 months without milk products.
    After then I got rid of meat and next after 5 months I got rid of fishes and sea animals.

    I eat dairy, daily. I eat meat, daily. I eat veg too. Don't know of any personal health issues. Cut down on the biscuits, and took up a bit of running. 10kg lighter now. Bloody biscuits!

    What I'm trying to say is, everything in moderation is fine. Some particular food groups don't agree with some people and that's cool. Not everyone is the same.
    FoodC wrote: »
    We shouldn't torture animals... we shouldn't eat them.. they are our friends.
    People who eat animals right now they also eat animal's fear which is extremely bad
    We shouldn't torture them, and that's why we have laws and repercussions for torturing and hurting animals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭emaherx


    FoodC wrote: »
    We shouldn't torture animals... we shouldn't eat them.. they are our friends.
    People who eat animals right now they also eat animal's fear which is extremely bad

    Animals are our friends?
    We eat their fears?

    What nonsense, most of your animal friends would quite happily kill you and not give it a second tought afterwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    auspicious wrote: »
    It didn't mention 'thousands' in the article.Thousands or ten, if it's true, which it probably is, it still happened because people buy neat and dairy. ...

    So you think it's true because you want it to be true? Cart before the horse there no?

    Always amazes me - the inordinate amounts of effort put into ranting about animal agriculture here but not a dicky bird about the very real impacts of arable and horticultural production have on the estimated billions of animals and organisms killed every year during cultivation and harvesting. Something I would have thought those choosing a plant based diet for self declared ethical reasons would be deeply concerned about.

    And yes those impacts are known about and remain relevant regardless of any intention to do 'less harm' no matter how often repeated .
    And why? Because this still happens where people buy cereal fruit and vegetables.

    Can we work towards maximising welfare of all animals whether vegan or omnivore? Yes we can. Dropping the usual one sided anti animal agriculture propaganda is a start.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 FoodC


    Yeah, that is true, everyone will think in their own way and everyone has their own rights.
    Anyway, here is an article about alternatives to cows milk if someone needs knowledge about that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    FoodC wrote: »
    Yeah, that is true, everyone will think in their own way and everyone has their own rights.
    Anyway, here is an article about alternatives to cows milk if someone needs knowledge about that.

    Very interesting. Not too many facts referenced there from nutritionists though which would give me some cause for concern as to the legitimacy of the article. I'm sure I could find many articles of the same standard to advocate for dairy products. All in all, meh.

    I'd pay more attention to what the HSE recommend as per the food pyramid
    https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/healthwellbeing/our-priority-programmes/heal/heal-docs/food-pyramid-poster-simple-version.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    FoodC wrote: »
    Yeah, that is true, everyone will think in their own way and everyone has their own rights.
    Anyway, here is an article about alternatives to cows milk if someone needs knowledge about that.

    Always find it's best stay from random nutrition websites - they are generally far from balanced tbh.

    Heres a fairly decent article on milk and alternatives from the NHS.

    https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/milk-and-dairy-nutrition/

    It remains that the current dietary advice from bodies such as the NHS is that "milk and dairy products, such as cheese and yoghurt, are great sources of protein and calcium. They can form part of a healthy, balanced diet." As with all things moderation is the key.


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