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Drogheda Printers Refuse To Print Same Sex Wedding Invitations

  • 05-03-2015 9:50pm
    #1
    Rick_
    Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭


    As per the title, and a similar case last year in the North, a company has refused to print or create material for a gay customer on the basis of their strongly held religious beliefs.

    http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31753375

    The usual lines are trotted out, including not wanting to support the "gay agenda" (we must stop doing that as a group) and also that the owners are incredibly religious, Christian, Bible loving people... (but just only the parts of the Bible that suit them, obviously).

    *sigh*


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,075 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Sad. Very sad.


  • #3
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    B_XQujvWcAApM7h.jpg

    This one really did my head in...


  • #4
    jungleman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 803 ✭✭✭jungleman


    In fairness to our generation, (teenagers up to maybe 35, shall we say?) the majority of us are embarrassed and appalled when we read something like this. I'm just glad that in a few years time when I have kids, they won't have to be on the receiving end of any homophobia or social injustice like this. Well I would hope so anyway. Attitudes are changing and most if not all of the people I know in my own twenty-something age group have a strong social conscience and moral compass with these issues.

    The actions of these printers is bigotry, plain and simple. They can dress it up and hide behind any sanctimonious religious reasoning they want, but they are still perpetrators of inequality and bigotry. It's just shameful. I live with a gay couple, and they are two of my best mates. To think that one day they might go somewhere, or do something, and be discriminated against because they love each other just makes me boil with anger.


  • #5
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,787 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    J_E wrote: »
    B_XQujvWcAApM7h.jpg

    This one really did my head in...


    Where was that?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #6
    Kalman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 233 ✭✭Kalman


    jungleman wrote: »
    In fairness to our generation, (teenagers up to maybe 35, shall we say?) the majority of us are embarrassed and appalled when we read something like this. I'm just glad that in a few years time when I have kids, they won't have to be on the receiving end of any homophobia or social injustice like this. Well I would hope so anyway. Attitudes are changing and most if not all of the people I know in my own twenty-something age group have a strong social conscience and moral compass with these issues.

    The actions of these printers is bigotry, plain and simple. They can dress it up and hide behind any sanctimonious religious reasoning they want, but they are still perpetrators of inequality and bigotry. It's just shameful. I live with a gay couple, and they are two of my best mates. To think that one day they might go somewhere, or do something, and be discriminated against because they love each other just makes me boil with anger.
    Each to their own!


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  • #7
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,139 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Where was that?

    Belfast, it was a state run boys home that was closed in the 1980s. It was a huge scandal involving members of the RUC, military and the government.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



  • #8
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,787 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Belfast, it was a state run boys home that was closed in the 1980s. It was a huge scandal involving members of the RUC, military and the government.

    No I meant what website was the comment left on

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #9
    jungleman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 803 ✭✭✭jungleman


    Kalman wrote: »
    Each to their own!

    What's that supposed to mean? That it's okay to discriminate against someone if you feel like it?


  • #10
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,032 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Just use a different printers. Does this really need to be blown up by media?


  • #11
    jungleman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 803 ✭✭✭jungleman


    gufc21 wrote: »
    Just use a different printers. Does this really need to be blown up by media?

    Well, yeah it does. It's homophobia - plain and simple. Do you think it would be okay if a black couple went into the printers and were turned away because their beliefs didn't agree with black people? "Just use a different printers" wouldn't really cut it in that scenario either.


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  • #12
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Thread ongoing in AH

    http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057392013/11/#post94566009


  • #13
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,032 ✭✭✭Guffy


    jungleman wrote: »
    Well, yeah it does. It's homophobia - plain and simple. Do you think it would be okay if a black couple went into the printers and were turned away because their beliefs didn't agree with black people? "Just use a different printers" wouldn't really cut it in that scenario either.

    Well people have no problem with it if its a black taxi driver, travellers in a pub, etc. This one man is homophobic. So what. He holds whatever religious beliefs he has and doesn't want to, in his eyes, support a gay wedding. Particularly now in a referendum year. Just use a different printers and leave him off.


    Scratch thyst. Read into it more, its the wedding he wouldn't print for. He has printed for him in the past so not homophobic, just objects to same sex marriage.


  • #14
    jungleman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 803 ✭✭✭jungleman


    gufc21 wrote: »
    Well people have no problem with it if its a black taxi driver, travellers in a pub, etc. This one man is homophobic. So what. He holds whatever religious beliefs he has and doesn't want to, in his eyes, support a gay wedding. Particularly now in a referendum year. Just use a different printers and leave him off.

    Yeah you're right, let's just lay off black taxi drivers being racially abused or gay couples being turned away by businesses. Who cares?


  • #15
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Daith


    gufc21 wrote: »
    Just use a different printers. Does this really need to be blown up by media?

    It was blown up on social media, then the media.

    Sure how else would people know not to use them for their business?

    If someone refused to print a birthday card for a child born out of wedlock would that be ok?


  • #16
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    gufc21 wrote: »
    Just use a different printers. Does this really need to be blown up by media?

    Absolutely, let people vote with their wallet. I for one wouldn't want to financially support a printer who behaved like this one.


  • #17
    Rick_
    Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Rick_


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    No I meant what website was the comment left on
    It's a Facebook post.

    Alarmingly, whilst looking through his profile, I see one of his pictures was liked by a friend of mine. Small world. I wonder if she knows about his narrow mindedness as she is very supportive of LGBT rights.

    Needless to say he only has one picture of himself on the profile and it's well hidden, the rest if random stuff and lots of Irish historical or political stuff.


  • #18
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    gufc21 wrote: »
    Well people have no problem with it if its a black taxi driver, travellers in a pub, etc.
    speak for yourself


  • #19
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,032 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Icepick wrote: »
    speak for yourself

    I wasn't talking about myself, I meant general public reaction. This happens on a nightly basis and there is never any uproar.


  • #20
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    gufc21 wrote: »
    I wasn't talking about myself, I meant general public reaction. This happens on a nightly basis and there is never any uproar.
    two (3, 4...) wrongs don't make a right

    If you know about these daily occurrences, what are you doing about it?


  • #21
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,032 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Icepick wrote: »
    two (3, 4...) wrongs don't make a right

    If you know about these daily occurrences, what are you doing about it?

    What do you do about it? Or have you never seen this happen?


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  • #22
    Ninjamonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Ninjamonkey


    gufc21 wrote: »
    Just use a different printers. Does this really need to be blown up by media?

    Absolutely it does ........
    Should Rosa Parks, just got on a different bus ?

    Its time we came out of the dark ages, and respected our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. people have different sexual preferences, but that doesn't make them any different from anyone else.

    I as a straight heterosexual male, who is married with 3 kids, will be making it my business to go out and vote in favour of gay marriage - because who am I , to decide on what makes other people happy ... I mean come on guys, this is about people who have been in relationships for years, and want to have the same rights and recognition as anyone else in this country. I believe (and I have conservative beliefs) that we have no right to inhibit the happiness of others, so I vote in favour for Gay Marriage, and I fully support Jonathon Brennan and his partner, and I hope they will have an incredibly happy day, and may they both have a very happy life together. ..


  • #23
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    The guy is running a business. He should have enough cop on to realise that some potential customers might not live lifestyles he agrees with but that's the risk you take in business. You think you can't offer a service maybe it's time to find another line of work. I used to be a travel agent, imagine me asking every couple booking a double room 'are ye married cause if you're not it'll be two singles or go elsewhere'...you can't work like that, it's laughable. What's worse is he has worked with this guy before over the past four years and still refused. It's incredibly judgemental and unfair.


  • #24
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,032 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Ninjamonkey wrote: »
    Absolutely it does ........
    Should Rosa Parks, just got on a different bus ?

    Its time we came out of the dark ages, and respected our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. people have different sexual preferences, but that doesn't make them any different from anyone else.

    I as a straight heterosexual male, who is married with 3 kids, will be making it my business to go out and vote in favour of gay marriage - because who am I , to decide on what makes other people happy ... I mean come on guys, this is about people who have been in relationships for years, and want to have the same rights and recognition as anyone else in this country. I believe (and I have conservative beliefs) that we have no right to inhibit the happiness of others, so I vote in favour for Gay Marriage, and I fully support Jonathon Brennan and his partner, and I hope they will have an incredibly happy day, and may they both have a very happy life together. ..

    Christ almighty. How can you equate the southern American states during and before the race rights movements to Drogheda, Ireland today? I also will be voting yes to the gay marriage referendum. That doesn't mean that I can't tolerate the beliefs of one man (or a minority of conservatives in this country). Yes, obviously, homosexuals should have equal rights I am not disputing that. All I said was is there a need to make a big national story out of this? I mean it is one little man's views. Rosa Parks didn't eradicate racism did she? just use a different printing agency and leave him off.


  • #25
    Ninjamonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Ninjamonkey


    gufc21 wrote: »
    Christ almighty. How can you equate the southern American states during and before the race rights movements to Drogheda, Ireland today? I also will be voting yes to the gay marriage referendum. That doesn't mean that I can't tolerate the beliefs of one man (or a minority of conservatives in this country). Yes, obviously, homosexuals should have equal rights I am not disputing that. All I said was is there a need to make a big national story out of this? I mean it is one little man's views. Rosa Parks didn't eradicate racism did she? just use a different printing agency and leave him off.

    With respect I think you are missing the point. If a person was refused service because of the colour of their skin, it would be a national outrage, and they would even likely be prosecuted. But because this chap just has a different sexual orientation, then we should just take no notice and allow it? , and he should just go elsewhere? No. I think not. It needs to be highlighted, and we need to ensure that everyone on this island is treated equally and fairly


  • #26
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    gufc21 wrote: »
    What do you do about it? Or have you never seen this happen?
    No, I haven't.


  • #27
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    eviltwin wrote: »
    The guy is running a business. He should have enough cop on to realise that some potential customers might not live lifestyles he agrees with but that's the risk you take in business.
    What's the risk you take in business? That you might have to do some business you don't want to? I would have thought most businesses don't take that risk; if there's a deal you don't like you don't do it.
    eviltwin wrote: »
    You think you can't offer a service maybe it's time to find another line of work. I used to be a travel agent, imagine me asking every couple booking a double room 'are ye married cause if you're not it'll be two singles or go elsewhere'...you can't work like that, it's laughable. What's worse is he has worked with this guy before over the past four years and still refused. It's incredibly judgemental and unfair.
    So, do you reckon he realised suddenly after four years the customer was gay and he decided he no longer wanted to do business with him? Or do you reckon he had no problem doing business with a gay guy, but there was some business he didn't want to do with anyone?
    We know from the customer the printer definitely did business with gay people.
    Do we know from anyone if the printer ever printed material supporting same sex marriage for straight people?


  • #28
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    eviltwin wrote: »
    The guy is running a business. He should have enough cop on to realise that some potential customers might not live lifestyles he agrees with but that's the risk you take in business. You think you can't offer a service maybe it's time to find another line of work. I used to be a travel agent, imagine me asking every couple booking a double room 'are ye married cause if you're not it'll be two singles or go elsewhere'...you can't work like that, it's laughable. What's worse is he has worked with this guy before over the past four years and still refused. It's incredibly judgemental and unfair.

    Would you say that about boycotts of South Africa in the 1980s? They are right to stick to their principles. If your profits are more important then your ethics you shouldn't be business IMO.

    In addition its extremely hard to see ant ground for legal action.


  • #29
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    robp wrote: »
    Would you say that about boycotts of South Africa in the 1980s? They are right to stick to their principles. If your profits are more important then your ethics you shouldn't be business IMO.

    In addition its extremely hard to see ant ground for legal action.

    The difference being racism in South Africa actually did create harm to an entire race of people. Two lads getting married don't cause anyone any harm. It just offends the morals of some people but that is life. You can't turn away everyone who offends you, you would never have a workable business then. If they want to act like this fine, I don't believe they should be forced to print invites they don't want to but their business will live or die by those principals now this is out there.


  • #30
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,787 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    robp wrote: »

    In addition its extremely hard to see ant ground for legal action.

    How?

    For me its clear that a complaint of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and civil status would be considered by The Equality Tribunal.

    http://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/What_You_Should_Know/Equal_Status/

    http://www.ihrec.ie/your-rights/what-is-equality/frequently-asked-question1.html

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #31
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    eviltwin wrote: »
    The difference being racism in South Africa actually did create harm to an entire race of people. Two lads getting married don't cause anyone any harm. It just offends the morals of some people but that is life. You can't turn away everyone who offends you, you would never have a workable business then. If they want to act like this fine, I don't believe they should be forced to print invites they don't want to but their business will live or die by those principals now this is out there.

    That is a fallacy. Who decides to vet each cause as worthy? Either you can object out of conscience or not.

    Whether or not the business does well subsequently is irrelevant to the concept of the right to refuse service. Anyway the vast majority of people wouldn't give a damn.


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