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Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Average gi weighs about 2kg so I would assume it's something to do with that! Usually you have to weight in with the gi on though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,998 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    RoboRat wrote: »
    Average gi weighs about 2kg so I would assume it's something to do with that! Usually you have to weight in with the gi on though.
    My IBJJF division gives me 2.5kg, which makes sense given you weigh-in wearing it.
    But here the different weight makes no sense as I'll be dressed the sane for both.
    Only think I can think of is it's from before the gi weigh-in changed and was never corrected. The dint usually have Nogi afaik


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 3,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeloe


    Had some stuff going on the last while, which is now sorted (mainly a bad dose of psoriasis) but i've been referred to a rheumatologist to see if the aches and pains i'm getting constantly are psoriatic arthritis....anyway...Before i drive myself demented, is anyone else constantly broke up and achey?

    It's mainly knees(injured right knee last year, but both are a constant 2-3 out of 10) elbow joints and tendinitis in both arms(probably a 2-10, constant) and constant lower back/si joint pain.

    Of course all areas i'm getting pains, are of course important and highly used in BJJ, are the pains BJJ related, maybe, maybe not...to be honest i can't ever remember being in constant pain a few years ago, but again, i was a fat pr!ck sitting on the couch 7 nights a week eating pizza and smoking fags.

    Training schedule looks like BJJ 3-4 days a week, and 3-4 weight sessions a week also, usually take sundays off, but they are active, walking and so on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    You're going to ache all over after training, especially the older you get. I'm 42 and I ache after training and have been at it for around 7 years. My knees are gone anyway - both had ACL reconstruction so they would ache no matter what.

    You probably need to try some supplements. I find that protein after training helps significantly with muscle aches. I also try and hydrate before training and after. I take glucosamine and chondroitin along with Magnesium before bed.

    Stretching before AND after will also help a lot - do a warm down. Try a hot bath with epsom salts too - that can help with the aches.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 3,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeloe


    RoboRat wrote: »
    You're going to ache all over after training, especially the older you get. I'm 42 and I ache after training and have been at it for around 7 years. My knees are gone anyway - both had ACL reconstruction so they would ache no matter what.

    You probably need to try some supplements. I find that protein after training helps significantly with muscle aches. I also try and hydrate before training and after. I take glucosamine and chondroitin along with Magnesium before bed.

    Stretching before AND after will also help a lot - do a warm down. Try a hot bath with epsom salts too - that can help with the aches.

    I do all this already....which is a killer, diet is pretty much bang on too, eat the same thing at the same time almost every single day, weight is staying the exact same too.

    The elbows, knees and lower back are the trouble areas, my dermatologist things it's arthritis....but now i know everyone else is in the same boat it might not be, it might just be my body breaking!


    I'm lucky that i work for myself in retail, so i can just chill out in the shop for most of the day, but if i was working for someone else i'd be in agony i'd say.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭Mini850


    eeloe wrote: »
    I do all this already....which is a killer, diet is pretty much bang on too, eat the same thing at the same time almost every single day, weight is staying the exact same too.

    The elbows, knees and lower back are the trouble areas, my dermatologist things it's arthritis....but now i know everyone else is in the same boat it might not be, it might just be my body breaking!


    I'm lucky that i work for myself in retail, so i can just chill out in the shop for most of the day, but if i was working for someone else i'd be in agony i'd say.

    Have you tried hydrolysed Collagen Protein? Ive not myself, but hear good thing when it comes to joint pain/suppleness. I was thinking of taking it come April as ill be upping my training


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭mickydcork


    eeloe wrote: »
    Had some stuff going on the last while, which is now sorted (mainly a bad dose of psoriasis) but i've been referred to a rheumatologist to see if the aches and pains i'm getting constantly are psoriatic arthritis....anyway...Before i drive myself demented, is anyone else constantly broke up and achey?

    It's mainly knees(injured right knee last year, but both are a constant 2-3 out of 10) elbow joints and tendinitis in both arms(probably a 2-10, constant) and constant lower back/si joint pain.

    Of course all areas i'm getting pains, are of course important and highly used in BJJ, are the pains BJJ related, maybe, maybe not...to be honest i can't ever remember being in constant pain a few years ago, but again, i was a fat pr!ck sitting on the couch 7 nights a week eating pizza and smoking fags.

    Training schedule looks like BJJ 3-4 days a week, and 3-4 weight sessions a week also, usually take sundays off, but they are active, walking and so on.

    For the elbows - stop 'death gripping' if you do it.

    Try getting a therband flexbar -

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Theraband-Resistance-Epicondylitis-Tendonitis-Tendinitis/dp/B00067E4YU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1550676497&sr=8-4&keywords=theraband+flexbar

    It helps with prehabbing of the elbow tendons.

    I suffered really badly with tennis elbow about half way through my white belt. It still flairs up occasionally but dialing back on the grips and using the flexbar helped hugely!


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 3,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeloe


    Mini850 wrote: »
    Have you tried hydrolysed Collagen Protein? Ive not myself, but hear good thing when it comes to joint pain/suppleness. I was thinking of taking it come April as ill be upping my training

    I haven't actually, i'll look in to this, thank you.
    mickydcork wrote: »
    For the elbows - stop 'death gripping' if you do it.

    Try getting a therband flexbar -

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Theraband-Resistance-Epicondylitis-Tendonitis-Tendinitis/dp/B00067E4YU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1550676497&sr=8-4&keywords=theraband+flexbar

    It helps with prehabbing of the elbow tendons.

    I suffered really badly with tennis elbow about half way through my white belt. It still flairs up occasionally but dialing back on the grips and using the flexbar helped hugely!

    I may death grip...i'm training tonight, i'll try and take notice if i do it or not.

    I know sometimes i do like to hold on to a grip until there's zero hope of using it....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭mickydcork


    eeloe wrote: »
    I may death grip...i'm training tonight, i'll try and take notice if i do it or not.

    I know sometimes i do like to hold on to a grip until there's zero hope of using it....

    This is an effective way of grappling but in my opinion it is not sustainable. Eventually you won't have the grip strength or you'll suffer from tendonitis etc.

    I find it is better to take a grip with the full intention to let it go and transfer to something else if you need to.

    Most of my grips are ~60%. I'll only full on grip for very short moments like at the crucial point of a sweep or the final moments of a well executed choke.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 3,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeloe


    mickydcork wrote: »
    This is an effective way of grappling but in my opinion it is not sustainable. Eventually you won't have the grip strength or you'll suffer from tendonitis etc.

    I find it is better to take a grip with the full intention to let it go and transfer to something else if you need to.

    Most of my grips are ~60%. I'll only full on grip for very short moments like at the crucial point of a sweep or the final moments of a well executed choke.

    I'll give this a go tonight!

    Really am doing everything i can medically to continue training, but hot damn....for the money i've spent on physios, chiropractors, GP's and other stuff over the last two years, damn i deserve a blue belt for that alone! :P


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭mickydcork


    eeloe wrote: »
    I'll give this a go tonight!

    Really am doing everything i can medically to continue training, but hot damn....for the money i've spent on physios, chiropractors, GP's and other stuff over the last two years, damn i deserve a blue belt for that alone! :P

    Also I'm not sure what age you are but your schedule looks like a lot of training!

    BJJ 4x week and lifting 3x a week? Seems like a lot to me!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    mickydcork wrote: »
    Also I'm not sure what age you are but your schedule looks like a lot of training!

    BJJ 4x week and lifting 3x a week? Seems like a lot to me!
    It's not overly excessive.
    I used to train BJJ 3-4 nights and Muay Thai the same, before work got in the way.
    And that'd be a few hours each night as well, not just one hour per night.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭mickydcork


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    It's not overly excessive.
    I used to train BJJ 3-4 nights and Muay Thai the same, before work got in the way.
    And that'd be a few hours each night as well, not just one hour per night.

    Hey don't get me wrong, if my body could handle it I'd do two a days every day.

    But I'm nearly 40 and if I train successive days without a break things start to go wrong - niggly injuries etc.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 3,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeloe


    mickydcork wrote: »
    Hey don't get me wrong, if my body could handle it I'd do two a days every day.

    But I'm nearly 40 and if I train successive days without a break things start to go wrong - niggly injuries etc.

    I'm 33, turning 34 in a couple of months.

    Monday - Wed - Friday - BJJ 2-3 hours per night + Saturday(open mat for an hour or two)
    Tues - Thurs - Saturday Weights for about an hour each time.

    Sundays then are usually spent pretty active, walking, or standing in fields at equine events with the wife.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    But I'm nearly 40 and if I train successive days without a break things start to go wrong - niggly injuries etc.

    42 and I concur. I need quality rest time or I get injured or run down. Not what I used to be :-(
    Have you tried hydrolysed Collagen Protein? Ive not myself, but hear good thing when it comes to joint pain/suppleness

    I have, didn't notice much from it. Might be better to take the collagen supplements seperately. I am using Overnight recovery from MP and I find it very good - big 45g shot of protein with zinc and magnesium.

    Check your grips, I tend to go for hook grips when I can as they don't require much work... otherwise I don't grip until I need them. I keep the hands in position or only slightly holding the gi.
    I'm 33, turning 34 in a couple of months.

    Monday - Wed - Friday - BJJ 2-3 hours per night + Saturday(open mat for an hour or two)
    Tues - Thurs - Saturday Weights for about an hour each time.

    Sundays then are usually spent pretty active, walking, or standing in fields at equine events with the wife.
    Today 16:43

    That sounds like a lot to me. Perhaps cut back by 30% and see how it feels. You're not old, but you are getting to a point when age is going to start catching up and everyone is different.

    I was finding it hard to loose weight and was doing both weight training and BJJ. I changed to a S&C program mid Jan and in 4 weeks lost 1.5kg but more imortantly, shed 4.5kg of fat. The program focuses primarily on flexability and endurance with more sets and smaller weights. I don't do lots of heavy lifting which will affect my joints and I do an intensive warm up and muscle supple program before I start. I has made a massive change since I started.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,998 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    mickydcork wrote: »
    Also I'm not sure what age you are but your schedule looks like a lot of training!

    BJJ 4x week and lifting 3x a week? Seems like a lot to me!

    I'd strained a couple of finger when they got caught, or somebody ripped hardbto break a grip. Combined death gripping and by hands and forearms used to kill me. But I've been taping my finger every session this year and it's made a huge difference. Fingers are mostly fine after training.

    As for training volume. A full week for me is 4 BJJ sessions - 2 classes (1.5-2hrs), lunchtime open mat (45mins) and open mat Sunday (60-90mins). But some week's I'll only fit 2 or of them in.
    I'm a bit more selective with S&C now I'm getting older. Only 2 short weights sessions at lunchtime. If I skip some I'll finish off on the weekend instead of doing cardio.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,030 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    I think an element of soreness following a BJJ session once you're past 35 is probably inevitable. I don't know anyone training in that age bracket, and training reasonably intensely, who doesn't report feeling a bit broken up. Although there's a distinction between acceptable soreness the day after a session and actually carrying injuries.

    Personally I find magnesium salts in a hot bath (soak for 15 minutes) helps, your mileage may vary.

    I'm not really a believer in a lot of other stuff although I do practice some yoga and I feel like that did improve my general tissue quality and I feel like if you have a base level of mobility then it is inevitably going to mean you're more comfortable when brought to extreme positions in the course of a roll.

    In terms of managing lifting and BJJ as a masters athlete:-

    Frankly it depends on what your training actually is in both contexts. If someone is training 4 times a week in the gym but they are just dicking around then BJJ on top of that it is not going to massively effect their recovery because they are probably not doing enough to illicit adaptation in any case.

    On the other hand, if someone is lifting a number of times a week and the programming is genuinely demanding in terms of volume and intensity then inevitably there will be a knock on effect. Squatting and deadlifting - whether the programming revolves around intensity or volume, or whatever combination - are intensely demanding and you are not going to go heavy and have multiple productive BJJ classes during the same week and keep that up for very long, unless you are napping, eating and recovering around the clock the rest of the time. A high volume of BJJ on top of a programme based on adding weight to the bar on a regular basis, or setting PRs in terms of reps completed, is also going to cause stalling earlier than it otherwise would. Finally, I would also question whether it would be very easy to add lean muscle mass while training that much... Even if you were doing the work in the gym the BJJ would mean you would need to consume an absolute ****-tonne of calories in order to stay in a calorific surplus.

    An option for managing a high workload is to consolidate the stressors. You'd ideally do your lifting and your BJJ on the same days. For example, if someone is training 3 lifting sessions and 4 BJJ sessions you might aim to still keep two days of the week which are total rest days, no training whatsoever, for recovery. Still excessive for almost any masters trainee I can think of, however, maybe barring people who are accustomed to that volume all of their lives. Or, as I said, people who are using the gym more for recreation / active recovery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,998 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    You won't run Smolov or Coan deadlift routine without feeling crippled.
    But you can still make slow steady progress with a low volume routine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,998 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Competed in the UAEJJF National Pro at the weekend. Won gold in Nogi and silver the gi. They used to give away trips to World Pro in UAE for blue and up. But not anymore. :(


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 3,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeloe


    Mellor wrote: »
    Competed in the UAEJJF National Pro at the weekend. Won gold in Nogi and silver the gi. They used to give away trips to World Pro in UAE for blue and up. But not anymore. :(

    Great results, ****ty news about there being no prizes tho! :(


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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,998 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    eeloe wrote: »
    Great results, ****ty news about there being no prizes tho! :(
    Prizes are only brown and up now. Too far away to think about.
    Hoping I can find some other events with prizes this year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    Well done Mellor thats some going.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 3,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeloe




    I've been using this choke a lot lately at training, and i've just discovered that it's possibly illegal under ibjjf rules?

    damn it...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    eeloe wrote: »


    I've been using this choke a lot lately at training, and i've just discovered that it's possibly illegal under ibjjf rules?

    damn it...

    That grip is a nightmare to break when its in, Its a popular choke in our gym. Why would it be illegal?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭cletus


    darced wrote: »
    That grip is a nightmare to break when its in, Its a popular choke in our gym. Why would it be illegal?

    Could it be to do with threading the arm inside the hi? Like the way you can't grip inside the sleeve ( or at least you couldn't, it's been a while)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭ Phoebe Full Overlap


    Mellor wrote: »
    Competed in the UAEJJF National Pro at the weekend. Won gold in Nogi and silver the gi. They used to give away trips to World Pro in UAE for blue and up. But not anymore. :(

    Congratulations.. Well done :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭ Phoebe Full Overlap


    darced wrote: »
    That grip is a nightmare to break when its in, Its a popular choke in our gym. Why would it be illegal?

    I'm wondering the same, what might make it illegal?.

    I reminds me of a take down I use in Judo but with an over hook, feeding the opposite collar into my right hand (won't go too much into it here).. But a nice choke, never seen it before but I'll certainly drill it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,998 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    cletus wrote: »
    Could it be to do with threading the arm inside the hi?
    Yup. That's why.
    when an athlete passes a hand through the inside of the opponent’s Gi to grip the external part of the gi
    I reminds me of a take down I use in Judo but with an over hook, feeding the opposite collar into my right hand (won't go too much into it here).. But a nice choke, never seen it before but I'll certainly drill it.
    One of the few throws I use is from that position too. Basically a lateral drop variation. I've managed it once or twice nogi. But I find the overhook+collar grip makes the upper body connection much tighter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Clive


    Mellor has it spot on, it's listed in the rulebook as a serious foul:

    "When an athlete grabs the inside of the opponent’s gi top or pants, when he steps inside the Gi jacket and and when an
    athlete passes a hand through the inside of the opponent’s gi to grip the external part of the gi."


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭ Phoebe Full Overlap


    Mellor wrote: »
    But I find the overhook+collar grip makes the upper body connection much tighter.


    More or less the same thing alright.

    I take the overhook/opposite collar with my right and use my left to grab the opposite arm but instead of a drop I drive through with a Osoto Gari/Harai Goshi variation.

    I'd only ever use it in competition or against a very experienced Judoka in the club because unless you've a lot of control I suspect (but have never seen it) it would be very easy to seriously injury your partners arm, shoulder or ribs, as you said its makes a much tighter grip and really locks in your partners shoulder and arm very tight.


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