RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

watty · 29-01-2012 1:41am

No, too small. Your separation is about 20 degrees (less really), so if you had same signal for both that would be 10 degrees off axis. Since BOTH services need on Axis LNBF and 65cm dish and signal level drops as you re-align off axis, you will have no rain margin if it works.

Likely an 80cm dish is needed and in some places a 90cm or more for Eurobird channels.

Even for Astra1 & Freesat (about 9 degrees, half as bad) dual feed a 65cm is too small for reliable operation on all transponders.

satwyn · 29-01-2012 9:58am

well looks like a bigger dish will be needed i will roll out my 1.8 prime focus precision dish to see if i get a signal lock the hughes lnb will be a bit fiddly to mount but things will improve when i get a proper lnbf i have been putting a polar mount together for the 1.8m dish so when the weather is ok i will bolt it on and see how i get on

Charlie-Bravo · 29-01-2012 2:41pm

Cheers Watty, at present are you aware of any standard bracket for Triax dish to holding two LNBs that will alow aligning of 9 degrees and 28.2 for the LNBs required? Or maybe that's a question for Tony!?

watty · 29-01-2012 3:41pm

Yes. There is a standard Triax part for Triax dishes (not the small dishes) that has four holders. The assembly drawing is for France/Germany. Here you mount it upside down to get more slope. the curve (-| dish is still the same. This is wrong curve )-| dish
where ( is the bracket and | the dish and - the arm all viewed from top.

The holders fit either way round and offset so that one LNB (say 19E) can be almost in line with arm.

The maximum Arc I could get using the two end holders opposite way round was about 23 degrees. The required arc is a little less than 19.

see http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/

I drilled a new hole so that the centre point is 16E rather than 19E to boost the 13E and 9E (they are closer to centre) which reduces the Sky/Freesat signal. But its a 90cm wide by 95cm tall Triax dish (not sure of model as it was a present from SES-Astra!). I may have bought the triax boom /adapter from satellite.ie (Tony) or someplace else. I was a few years ago.

John896 · 29-01-2012 8:53pm

That`s not good news for us here in Wales,i would put my 2.4m dish back on 9 East however.It`s on 26 East for the footy.

satwyn wrote: »

well looks like a bigger dish will be needed i will roll out my 1.8 prime focus precision dish to see if i get a signal lock the hughes lnb will be a bit fiddly to mount but things will improve when i get a proper lnbf i have been putting a polar mount together for the 1.8m dish so when the weather is ok i will bolt it on and see how i get on

zg3409 · 30-01-2012 5:45pm

A little birdie near Donnybrook said March 17th will be official launch.

Probably rubbish, 2nd hand info, believe it at your peril. I wonder will Tommy and PJ get a green waistcoat for paddy's day big launch?

satwyn · 30-01-2012 7:44pm

John896 wrote: »

That`s not good news for us here in Wales,i would put my 2.4m dish back on 9 East however.It`s on 26 East for the footy.

i have a floor mounted motorised 1.2m prodelin dish i'll give it a go on 9e rte over the next few days

zg3409 · 30-01-2012 8:22pm

Another birdie from a different source (non RTENL) said it won't be called Saorsat...

WON'T BE CALLED SAORSAT??

....

wait for it

....

....

new name

....

don't you love marketing departments.....

"Saorview via Sat"

Yes apparantly someone somewhere reckons this is what it will be called. Someone needs to do a find "Saorsat" and replace all with "Saorview via Sat" for the entire thread

I guess saorsat.ie will go unused, waste of taxpayers money. Only time will tell.

I hope it won't end up being called "Saorview via Sat except for TV3 & 3E"!?

ISAA · 30-01-2012 10:01pm

zg3409 wrote: »

Another birdie from a different source (non RTENL) said it won't be called Saorsat...

WON'T BE CALLED SAORSAT??

....

wait for it

....

....

new name

....

don't you love marketing departments.....

"Saorview via Sat"

Yes apparantly someone somewhere reckons this is what it will be called. Someone needs to do a find "Saorsat" and replace all with "Saorview via Sat" for the entire thread

I guess saorsat.ie will go unused, waste of taxpayers money. Only time will tell.

I hope it won't end up being called "Saorview via Sat except for TV3 & 3E"!?

Saorview via sat domain name is gone already ?

The Cush · 30-01-2012 10:19pm

ISAA wrote: »

Saorview via sat domain name is gone already ?

No, still available across all domains.

ISAA · 30-01-2012 10:43pm

just checked with digiweb and the .ie domain is taken or so it says ?

The Cush · 30-01-2012 10:45pm

ISAA wrote: »

just checked with digiweb and the .ie domain is taken or so it says ?

This from iedr

% Not Registered - The domain you have requested (saorviewviasat.ie) is not a registered .ie domain name.

ISAA · 30-01-2012 10:48pm

justs check also and agree, so why is digiweb saying taken, does it take a few days to be registered ?

The Cush · 30-01-2012 10:55pm

ISAA wrote: »

does it take a few days to be registered ?

This from the iedr FAQ

19. How long does it take to register a .ie domain name?

When the IEDR receive an application for a .ie domain name it is usually processed within 3 hours. If the registration requirements are meet immediately, the application will be accepted and the domain will go live in the following IE Zone Reload which occurs four times daily (10am/12pm/5pm/10pm). Should the registration requirements not have been meet in the initial application then an email notification will be sent to advise the applicant what is required to complete the application.

http://www.domainregistry.ie/index.php/mnudomregs/mnuhowtoreg/51-regfaq

ISAA · 30-01-2012 11:08pm

Thanks, time will tell, or a digi mistake

watty · 30-01-2012 11:24pm

I guess RTENL chose Saorsat and the marketing people in RTE want Saorview via Sat, which while a mouthful...

Freesat is NOT a copy at all of Freeview.

Stinicker · 31-01-2012 2:24am

watty wrote: »

I guess RTENL chose Saorsat and the marketing people in RTE want Saorview via Sat, which while a mouthful...

Freesat is NOT a copy at all of Freeview.

If they go with "Saorview via Sat" wouldn't they look pretty stupid if TV3 and 3e were not then included on Saorsat as some people have speculated might be the case due to TV3 and 3e's rights issues in Northern Ireland which will most likely fall under the Saorsat footprint of reception.

watty · 31-01-2012 8:36am

Saorsat is for 2% to 5% of people that can't get Saorview and DTT site backup.

TV3 never paid to go on all the Terrestrial Analogue sites and thus was unavailable to more than 15% of population, except by Sky!

It's NOTHING to do with "rights"! It's penny pinching because they are broke from the Leveraged buyout. They just closed Galway studio to save money.

When a DTT site feed fails, the viewers of that DTT site will lose TV3 & 3E.

About 95%+ of people want UK TV. 82% have Pay TV to get that even though it's free. I think dual feed for satellite will be popular. People will have all the ITV channels and all the other UK Free channels from 28E.

It's only TV3 that will look stupid.

channnels · 31-01-2012 8:44am

So is Saorsat a fill in service or a "game changer"? The only game I think will change is that I think TV3 will just sit and wait until RTE NL finally carry at least TV3 for free.

channnels · 31-01-2012 9:20am

watty wrote: »

Saorsat is for 2% to 5% of people that can't get Saorview and DTT site backup.

When a DTT site feed fails, the viewers of that DTT site will lose TV3 & 3E.

About 95%+ of people want UK TV. 82% have Pay TV to get that even though it's free. I think dual feed for satellite will be popular. People will have all the ITV channels and all the other UK Free channels from 28E.

It's only TV3 that will look stupid.

I fully get the need for backup of DTT sites but disagree with your statement that Dual Feed will be popular - the vast majority of Irish viewers now have access to a high quality DTT signal so the obvious solution would have been for a dual Saorview Freesat box rather than some kind of Heath Robinsonian bodge with two dishes and slightly cooked Freesat firmware to allow integration of the two.

RTE NL could have approved combos but so far haven't. From reading Watty's postings it would seem to me at least that RTE NL have decided to wait for Saorview Via Ka Sat at 9e before they "allow" the Irish public to have a choice of a reliable UK-IRL FTA solution. My opinion of course.

And I also think TV3 will sit Saorsat out. Already they have far more coverage than ever and since the One vision debacle TV3 won't be in the mood to give RTE NL a digout. I think that they will just wait until RTE NL give them a free ride on Saorsat. And even if they don't go onto it they won't lose any sleep over it.

MarkK · 31-01-2012 10:00am

channnels wrote: »

RTE NL could have approved combos but so far haven't.

Which boxes are fully compatible combos but have not been approved?

watty · 31-01-2012 10:06am

So far no compliant Combo has been submitted and passed. RTENL don't develop or approve boxes. It's up to a manufacturer and Teracom Independent tests.

A Saorview certified Combo that's not a true "Freesat HD" box IMO isn't a proper solution. There are ZERO "Freesat HD" combos, i.e. True "Freesat HD" box with ANY DTT tuner of any sort.

watty · 31-01-2012 10:12am

channnels wrote: »

I fully get the need for backup of DTT sites but disagree with your statement that Dual Feed will be popular - the vast majority of Irish viewers now have access to a high quality DTT signal so the obvious solution would have been for a dual Saorview Freesat box rather than some kind of Heath Robinsonian bodge with two dishes and slightly cooked Freesat firmware to allow integration of the two.

A quad tuner PVR box is greatly more expensive than dual tuner. Or DTT + Sat simple combo.

A single dish works. We are talking about 5% of the Population. A combo DTT / Sat box does NOTHING for them. They need the Sat only dual feed anyway.

There will be a certified combo that has partial Freesat HD ability. But there will not be a true Freesat HD/Saorview certified PVR (two + two tuners).

Macy0161 · 31-01-2012 11:10am

channnels wrote: »

So is Saorsat a fill in service or a "game changer"?

It's only meant to be a fill in service.

After that, it all depends on how Saorsat+ and/or Freesat+ receivers function when combining the two. If you had one channel list, and full pvr (albeit without full epg on one of the services) then it may become a genuine option imo. I still think a saorview certfied combo is going to be the biggest game changer.

watty · 31-01-2012 12:48pm

Yes, Saorsat or "Saorview via sat" is just a fill in for 2% to 5% and a Backup feed.

It does have advantage for those wishing to have a real PVR the ability to add the three Irish Channels that more than 80% of Analogue viewers have.

It's of little advantage on a PC media Centre if you are the 98% that can get an aerial signal as you can easily add USB DTT tuners to a box with PCI or PCIe DVB-S2 satellite cards.

You'll not get a Saorview certified true PVR combo.
The best will be a Saorview certified (for DTT, not PVR) Combo with ability to read Freesat EPG and Receive FTA HD Satellite (A real "Freesat HD" approved box does a lot more) with possibly some BBC Red Button compatibility, that has external recording option. Useful, but not a "Game changer" as it doesn't replace Sky or UPC PVR (82% have Pay TV).

Nothing is a "real game changer" as any solution that's an alternative to Sky or UPC PVRs needs two satellite feeds, or is an expensive top end Linux Sat box with two DTT tuners or a PC based Media Centre.
Even if there was ever a real PVR (dual tuners DTT, Dual tuners Sat, internal HDD) that is Saorview Certified and could at least do Freesat Series link and 7 day guide, it would be nearly twice the price of a Humax "Freesat+ HD" PVR, which can have a SW plugin to at least add the Irish Channels.

A combo needs a TV aerial and Sat dish.

We might see a small drop in pay TV eventually, but misinformation and worry about ASO and the ill conceived publicity so far will boost UPC and Sky subs a little.

At the end of the day it's about ditching Analogue so the Government can sell off spectrum, nothing more.

The viewer benefits are easier PVR than analogue (but a lot more expensive than a DVD or VHS recorder), widescreen and some HD. Also finally Irish TV on a Media Centre PC without poor quality Analogue Tuner card. Nothing more.

Macy0161 · 31-01-2012 1:18pm

watty wrote: »

You'll not get a Saorview certified true PVR combo.

Just to clarify, it was the possibility of a satellite solution for PVR that may make it an option.

I do think you might underestimate the gains a certified combo could make though, regardless of true PVR or not. Especially for those that haven't already gone to Sky+, and those paying for multi room.

channnels · 31-01-2012 1:47pm

I'm with Macy on this one. A giant 80cm dish or two smaller dishes for Freesat and Saorsat won't be more acceptable to Joe or Jane public than a small UHF aerial and a small dish. The combo option should not be discounted and if a "decent spec" PVR were made available with the Freesat EPG, MHEG and Saorview EPG then that would be a winner.

Sam Russell · 31-01-2012 1:56pm

All it require is for Humax to add a USB tuner to the Foxsat HDR, and integrate the EPG.

They wont, but they could.

Maybe a hacker might.

channnels · 31-01-2012 2:21pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

All it require is for Humax to add a USB tuner to the Foxsat HDR, and integrate the EPG.

They wont, but they could.

Maybe a hacker might.

The Foxsat HDR has a Linux operating system so it should be technically possible. Big advantage of Saorview is that it's DVB-T so USB tuners are cheap and plentiful.

Now that WOULD be a game changer!

watty · 31-01-2012 2:30pm

1.1m to 1.4m is big
80cm isn't big

1.8m is "large"
3.6m is "giant" (A friend has one!)

My "multifeed" is 90 x 95 dish, but that's what I had for free.

Of course it's technically possible to make a Quad Tuner PVR. But the market isn't big enough for the cost.

You will get your simple Saorview combo soon though with at least Freesat EPG. But that's irrelevant to Saorsat thread.

RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

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