History of Irish Cable

Freddie59 · 23-07-2009 1:40pm

Elmo wrote: »

As they were set up. BSkyB began in 1989 ????? hence the channel line up in 1989 and some disruptions with cablelink.

Back in the 1970s there where only 3 UK channels and 1 Irish channel. By 1978 there where 3 UK channels and 2 Irish Channels, 1982 saw four UK channels.

BSB (British Satellite Broadcasting) started around 1989, but never really got off the ground. The banks forced a 'merger':rolleyes: with Sky in 1991/1992, thus creating British Sky Broadcasting. BSB had, at the time, the rights to the FA Cup, and were broadcasting on a standard which delivered very clean pictures (I think it was D-Mac - Watty?).

watty · 23-07-2009 2:26pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Satellite_Broadcasting

The British Satellite Broadcasting consortium was formed in 1986 by Granada Television, Pearson, Virgin, Anglia Television and Amstrad. In early 1988, the BSB consortium was awarded a licence to operate three channels by the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA). Around the time of the license award, Amstrad withdrew its backing and Australian businessman Alan Bond joined the consortium along with Reed, Chargeurs and London Merchant Securities amongst others.

They only had Public transmissions of D-MAC for 8 months before loss forced Sky & BSB to merge (March to Nov 1990). The D-MAC services gradually phased out in 1991?

It used (for then) a high power satellite and proposed a 30cm dish, later a 45 cm "flat" dish of a design only recently back in vogue.

It used D-MAC. MAC was originally designed to do Analogish HDTV in Europe competition to the NHK 1125 analog system (which is why Digital HD is "stupid for Europe" 1080 visible lines instead of 1152 visible lines). But European HD based on MAC never happened. It was all Standard Definition (625line TV, 576 lines visible video).
Not many TVs had SCART then and obviously you needed RGB SCART to get full quality of the signal. Many people used the RF adaptor on the Setbox/decoder.

D2-MAC in Scandinavia
Version 2 of Digital with Multiplexed Analogue Components.

All MAC versions are indeed superior to RF terrestrial PAL, Analogue FM satellite PAL or Composite. In modern terms similar quality to using Digital Audio and Analogue S-Video. Basic D-MAC is higher bandwidth and only two audio channels.

Some Analogue Satellite receivers had an RCA phono type connector labelled "Baseband" or an extra menu setting to output "baseband" to the SCART, in either case for D-MAC or D2-MAC tunerless decoder with Eurocrypt card reader.

The Audio was precursor of the Nicam system, but with 4 channels. That is the Digital part. Unlike current Terrestrial Nicam, no analogue Audio was transmitted.

The colour (chrominance) and Monochrome (Luminance ) transmitted alternately. (in S-Video terms C and Y)
http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/tv/tv.html#MAC

Encryption chosen for MAC was rubbish (easily cracked).
Bandwidth use was very high.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexed_Analogue_Components

So while the Sky Merger meant the end of MAC in UK (with sparkly noise in rain or poorly tuned or aligned dish and even vision buzz on sound.) it lived on in Scandinavia, but killed almost overnight by MPEG2 DVB-s (Digital Satellite) in the late 1990s. Regular Analogue Satellite is only finally taking its last gasps this year (2009). Properly setup Sky Analogue on a 80cm dish with a decent receiver was as good or better than Analogue Terrestrial TV.

Since most TVs didn't have SCART for RGB in 1990, the D-MAC decision was wrong as it wasted €150M or more compared with an FM Analogue PAL approach and meant they were 13 months after Sky in launch instead of first.

In 1988 or 1989 (or maybe earlier 1986 or 1987) in the Railway Hotel in Limerick I addressed a large group of TV dealers and others who had been looking for distribution solutions and encryption for so called "Deflectors" for Limerick, Clare & Kerry. I outlined various solutions for both (I had maintained BBC Microwave terrestrial links previously). At the end I said the best solution was to get all such groups in all of Ireland and launch our own private Satellite Service. (The Russian satellite TV to India was long past).

Lack of vision. Instead we had 12 years or so of rubbish MMDS, cable and mickey mouse deflectors when could have had Satellite. We are still one of the few countries with no satellite service at all.

Mike 1972 · 23-07-2009 11:43pm

What was this strange policy the Irish Govt had towards microwaves ? MMDS could have been introduced into Ireland in the 1960's (the technology had already been used in North America) but even RTE werent allowed to use a microwave network for distriution they had to rent one off the P&T.

And when the Government issues cable companies with licences why were they allowed to sit on them for years/decades (e.g. Nenagh, Ennis, Castlebar, Carragaline etc) shouldnt invitations have gone out for new applicants in these places ?

Freddie59 · 24-07-2009 9:20am

Mike 1972 wrote: »

What was this strange policy the Irish Govt had towards microwaves ? MMDS could have been introduced into Ireland in the 1960's (the technology had already been used in North America) but even RTE werent allowed to use a microwave network for distriution they had to rent one off the P&T.

And when the Government issues cable companies with licences why were they allowed to sit on them for years/decades (e.g. Nenagh, Ennis, Castlebar, Carragaline etc) shouldnt invitations have gone out for new applicants in these places ?

Cost, I'd say. Would there have BEEN any new applicants? Why were Eircom allowed own a potential competitor....along with RTE?

Ah the good ole days. The only difference nowadays is that its the banking sector.:rolleyes:

Elmo · 24-07-2009 10:38am

Mike 1972 wrote: »

And when the Government issues cable companies with licences why were they allowed to sit on them for years/decades (e.g. Nenagh, Ennis, Castlebar, Carragaline etc) shouldnt invitations have gone out for new applicants in these places ?

Do they have cable and are they run by UPC? which then make the following statement ironic.

Cost, I'd say. Would there have BEEN any new applicants? Why were Eircom allowed own a potential competitor....along with RTE?

Since the very company they prevent from controlling them pretty much controls them with different owners.

Did any of the other cable companies provide Telephony? I know Cablelink where prevented from setting up a new TV station because of TV3 and possibly RTÉ and telephony because of Telecom.

Freddie59 · 24-07-2009 8:19pm

Elmo wrote: »

Do they have cable and are they run by UPC? which then make the following statement ironic.

Since the very company they prevent from controlling them pretty much controls them with different owners.

Did any of the other cable companies provide Telephony? I know Cablelink where prevented from setting up a new TV station because of TV3 and possibly RTÉ and telephony because of Telecom.

Ironic? How so?

I'm talking about the 80s, when it was impossible to provide a feed to places like this because of the laws of this country.

Elmo · 25-07-2009 1:36am

Freddie59 wrote: »

Ironic? How so? I'm talking about the 80s, when it was impossible to provide a feed to places like this because of the laws of this country.

I the fact that the companies that sat on the licences are now possible controlled by one big company, I find it Ironic that the licences are still in reality the same companies. Not ironic if the licences where removed.

icdg · 25-07-2009 11:15am

Freddie59 wrote: »

Only a couple of points to add:

Westward Cables was then taken over by Horizon, then Princes Holdings, and Cork/Limerick became Irish Multichannel. Irish Multichannel subsequently bought up the majority of the smaller operators around the country.
[/B]

It would have been CMI Cable (the Mike Murphy group) rather than Irish Multichannel that bought up the smaller cable operators. In 1999 CMI had licences for about 40 small-to-medium-sized towns around the State. Irish Multichannel's cable operations were concentrated in the Cork and Limerick areas. Suir Nore Relays in the South East was the next largest after CMI and Irish Multichannel bought them both in 2000 to create Chorus.

Zilog Jones wrote:

When did they start introducing more channels? I know Sky Channel, Bravo, TCC etc. started around the mid '80s but I don't know how they were distributed to cable networks in the pre-Astra days.

On Cablelink at any rate it was 1986. The line up of satellite channels on Cablelink in that period would have been Sky Channel, Super Channel, MTV, Screensport, Lifestyle, and the Children's Channel (which wouldn't really start being referred to as TCC until they introduced a DOG saying that around 1991).

Freddie59 wrote:

The satellite services were pulled for over a year in a row over fees around 1992.

Only Sky One and Sky News. Service restored in 1994 (after being promised for about a year before by Cablelink). The argument was indeed about fees and was very similar to the recent Virgin Media-Sky squabble, although that was resolved a lot quicker. The odd thing was that Sky and Cablelink were in sufficent agreement to keep all the premium channels on the platform...

Going back to the 1970s, prior to Channel 4's arrival some cable companies (including RTÉ Relays I believe) carried both Ulster Television and HTV Wales. There would have been a lot more variations between the two in those days.

Freddie59 · 25-07-2009 5:29pm

Elmo wrote: »

I the fact that the companies that sat on the licences are now possible controlled by one big company, I find it Ironic that the licences are still in reality the same companies. Not ironic if the licences where removed.

Still boils back, though, to the monopolistic and draconian microwave legislation that existed in this country at the time. Unfortunately.

Freddie59 · 25-07-2009 5:38pm

icdg wrote: »

It would have been CMI Cable (the Mike Murphy group) rather than Irish Multichannel that bought up the smaller cable operators. In 1999 CMI had licences for about 40 small-to-medium-sized towns around the State. Irish Multichannel's cable operations were concentrated in the Cork and Limerick areas. Suir Nore Relays in the South East was the next largest after CMI and Irish Multichannel bought them both in 2000 to create Chorus.

That is indeed correct. Hard to keep track of it all.

icdg wrote: »

Cablelink at any rate it was 1986. The line up of satellite channels on Cablelink in that period would have been Sky Channel, Super Channel, MTV, Screensport, Lifestyle, and the Children's Channel (which wouldn't really start being referred to as TCC until they introduced a DOG saying that around 1991).

CNN was available for a few months down here and was withdrawn. And lest we forget..........Lifestyle Satellite Jukebox!:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKDYAZUA_kU&feature=related

icdg wrote: »

Only Sky One and Sky News. Service restored in 1994 (after being promised for about a year before by Cablelink). The argument was indeed about fees and was very similar to the recent Virgin Media-Sky squabble, although that was resolved a lot quicker. The odd thing was that Sky and Cablelink were in sufficent agreement to keep all the premium channels on the platform...

That was kind of mad alright. It's worth noting that, at the time, Cablelink proposed inserting local Irish ads on Sky One and Sky news to pay the fees. It was ruled out of order by the Department Of Communications (after intense lobbying by various vested interest media groups). I remember reading a letter by some head in the paper at the time that, with digital technology developing (Jerrold were trialling a system called Digicypher), there would be nothing to stop Irish versions of these channels being broadcast in the future, with the revenue disappearing outside the State. The suggestion was rebuked. Look at what's happened.:rolleyes:

icdg wrote: »

Going back to the 1970s, prior to Channel 4's arrival some cable companies (including RTÉ Relays I believe) carried both Ulster Television and HTV Wales. There would have been a lot more variations between the two in those days.

Yeah, that happened here as well. Cork Multichannel also had the two on (when they still had the Welsh feed via Casey TV) along with the then-new Microwave system.

Elmo · 25-07-2009 6:23pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

Still boils back, though, to the monopolistic and draconian microwave legislation that existed in this country at the time. Unfortunately.

And we don't have a monopolistic draconian company running MMDS at the moment?

Could anyone set up a MMDS / Cable system now?

Freddie59 · 25-07-2009 7:03pm

Elmo wrote: »

And we don't have a monopolistic draconian company running MMDS at the moment?

Could anyone set up a MMDS / Cable system now?

Who'd want to?:D Although I do believe that a certain company in Cork is now running an MMDS system (on satellite frequencies). And it isn't a health hazard.:eek: My how times have changed!:D

Elmo · 25-07-2009 8:34pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

Who'd want to?:D Although I do believe that a certain company in Cork is now running an MMDS system (on satellite frequencies). And it isn't a health hazard.:eek: My how times have changed!:D

Open market etc etc. which was the point of the Monopoly statement that I commented on was Ironic today when their is really only one cable/MMDS provider, and they don't compete in areas with other cable companies. Hence most people have the choice between either UPC or the local cable company and Sky.

And no one finds it Ironic that Boxer, One Vision and Easy TV wanted to set up a Pay DTT service!

Elmo · 25-07-2009 8:36pm

Also thanks for all the help everybody.

watty · 25-07-2009 8:51pm

Stupid and pointless maybe when it can't compete on number of channels, most of the basic channels on PayDTT are free free free on Satellite (If you can do an Aerial you can likely do a Dish) and just about anyone that wants PayTV got it 10 years ago or more.
Oh and transmission costs for a new channel are higher on DTT. Assuming you actually have to pay for carriage on Satellite or Cable (RTE don't).

Hagar · 25-07-2009 9:05pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

RTE were commissioned to cable the Ballymun flats in (I think) 1968 or so. Thus RTE Relays was born. Two other large operators (Marlin and Phoenix) subsequently covered sections of Dublin at the time.

Sillogue Gardens in Ballymun was cabled before all the flats were built, pre 1966 I think about 1963. I don't think it was called RTE relays at the time I think it was Marlin but I am open to correction. I'll see what I can find out.

Marlin cabled a few areas in Dublin to my knowledge but there was a limit of 300 houses per communal arial at the time. Most people though this was a marketing con to get people to sign up quickly as there were no aerials to be seen anywhere. (Ballymun excepted)

Freddie59 · 25-07-2009 11:24pm

Hagar wrote: »

Sillogue Gardens in Ballymun was cabled before all the flats were built, pre 1966 I think about 1963. I don't think it was called RTE relays at the time I think it was Marlin but I am open to correction. I'll see what I can find out.

Marlin cabled a few areas in Dublin to my knowledge but there was a limit of 300 houses per communal arial at the time. Most people though this was a marketing con to get people to sign up quickly as there were no aerials to be seen anywhere. (Ballymun excepted)

Sheesh! '63:eek: Even Cable in the US was only getting on its feet then.

Freddie59 · 25-07-2009 11:25pm

watty wrote: »

Stupid and pointless maybe when it can't compete on number of channels, most of the basic channels on PayDTT are free free free on Satellite (If you can do an Aerial you can likely do a Dish) and just about anyone that wants PayTV got it 10 years ago or more.
Oh and transmission costs for a new channel are higher on DTT. Assuming you actually have to pay for carriage on Satellite or Cable (RTE don't).

In a nutshell.

Mike 1972 · 26-07-2009 9:57am

First cable systems in the US were in 1948

In the 1980's (or most of the period anyway -not sure when it changed) it was illegal for private individuals to own satellite dishes. Of course this (ridiculous and kinda USSR reminicent) rule was flouted (although not particularly widely because such things were expensive back then) with little/no attempt at enforcment by the Dept (Not suprising given that pirate radio was more of a priority and they were almost powerless against that). Eventually the Dept allowed cable operators to carry satellite channels (initially on a temporary experimental basis and restricted to two channels at any one time) but private dishes remained technically illegal for another few years (although there were proposals to issue licences to people outside of existing or proposed cabled areas). Looking back now at the way things were done in those days much of it is laughable and barely believable.

RE: The alleged monopoly status of cable/MMDS operators this is less of an issue nowadays with satellite (Freesat/$ky/Foreign) deflectors (albeit only in some areas and soon to be restricted to 12 GHz) IPTV, DTT (some of these years) etc etc in any case allowing multiple MMDS operators would hardly be consistent with efficent use of the radio spectrum and multiple cable operators (particularly if cabling wasnt underground) isint really practical.

On the other hand the Dept of Comms in most parts of the country tended to award cable and MMDS licences to the same company. Cork Multichannel first started lobbying for MMDS licencing in 1985

The P&T monopoly on (non-RADAR) microwave use was more an issue of licencing policy than any particular piece of legislation. Bizzare though that even other state owned bodies (like RTE) werent allowed their own microwave links but had to lease them off the P&T. Given that Ireland was a reletively geographically isolated (only one close neighbour), economically underdeveloped country with low population density, little in the way of a military and a hideously backward telecommunications system (particularly in the P&T days) the microwave bands must have been virtually empty (Watty: was there much in the way of amateur radio/radio experimenter activity on these frequencies ???)

Freddie59 · 26-07-2009 1:06pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Given that Ireland was a reletively geographically isolated (only one close neighbour), economically underdeveloped country with low population density, little in the way of a military and a hideously backward telecommunications system (particularly in the P&T days) the microwave bands must have been virtually empty

Indeed. As was proven later, one hop to go from Waterford to Cork, and a company forced to lay 60 miles of underground cable - for what, precisely? It was nuts by any standard.

watty · 26-07-2009 6:20pm

First cable systems in Europe was in 1930s. Many countries adoped 440 lines. Hamburg and Berlin Cable TV ran for some while after the TV masts bombed. Unlike UK, Germany didn't stop TV in 1939.
Eventually the Berlin studios taken over for Film Production in maybe 1943?

The Germans also had HD cable for V2 rocket testing ranges (more like CCTV really).

Evesham in UK had Cable with Off Air RTE on it in early 1960s.

Mike 1972 · 26-07-2009 7:46pm

RE: Ballymun surely communal aerials on the roofs of the towers would have brought in all the channels without the need to be part of a larger cable network (albeit still necessary for the other houses in the area) ?

watty wrote: »

Germany didn't stop TV in 1939.

They actually did but changed their minds after a few weeks. Oh and it was 441 lines. Several countries used variants of this standard (positive and negative video and different field rates)

Freddie59 wrote: »

a company forced to lay 60 miles of underground cable.

Dont think it was actually underground (although sections of it may have been) just ran across fields/along the side of the road (Must have been breaking down constantly ?)

Freddie59 · 26-07-2009 7:55pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Dont think it was actually underground (although sections of it may have been) just ran across fields/along the side of the road (Must have been breaking down constantly ?)

The majority of it was actually. I drove it when it was being laid. Because of the size of the cable it was direct burial. There was a little box every so often which indicated that it was buried below. Although the section near Midleton is another issue.

Mike 1972 · 26-07-2009 9:26pm

I guess I stand corrected

What effect did sixty miles of coax have on the
a) quality
b) reliability
of the signal though ?

Bet it used to get dug up a lot ?

Freddie59 · 27-07-2009 12:23pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

I guess I stand corrected

What effect did sixty miles of coax have on the
a) quality
b) reliability
of the signal though ?

Bet it used to get dug up a lot ?

No worries Mike. I've dropped a few clangers here as well.:D

I'd imagine it did. Lads with diggers....you can only see it. Quality-wise I suppose there was some deterioration, given the distance, but it was only transporting the four UK channels.

Here in Waterford there was some fasinating stuff in the 70s. Two 250 foot masts collapsed. A chap I know has a polaroid of one of them. I must ask him for a loan.

Antenna · 27-07-2009 4:43pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

BSB (British Satellite Broadcasting) started around 1989, but never really got off the ground. The banks forced a 'merger':rolleyes: with Sky in 1991/1992, thus creating British Sky Broadcasting. BSB had, at the time, the rights to the FA Cup, and were broadcasting on a standard which delivered very clean pictures (I think it was D-Mac - Watty?).

British Satellite Broadcasting launched in March 1990 (according to wikipedia)

I remember reading at the time in the then Cork Examiner that their channels were introduced on Cork Multi Channel - but it was shortlived - maybe a week or so later the BSB channels were pulled due to I think was a copyright issue - never to return - AFAIK it was the only time the original BSB was carried on cable in this country during its short life before it merged with Sky, it was never on Cablelink etc.

Mike 1972 · 27-07-2009 6:40pm

Since several posters have mentioned the ill fated BSB someone should mention the even more ill fated Esat and Atlantic Satellites consortia which applied for the Irish DSB licence (the latter being the succesful applicant) but which never made it on air.

Thing is how did the Government manage to award a broadcasting licence to a private concern when RTE supposedly enjoyed a legal monopoly on broadcasting within the state ?

Also worth a mention are the unlicenced cable systems (not to be confused with deflectors) which operate in a few towns.

Antenna · 27-07-2009 6:59pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Thing is how did the Government manage to award a broadcasting licence to a private concern when RTE supposedly enjoyed a legal monopoly on broadcasting within the state ?

The monopoly must only have applied to terrestrial only, and not cable and satellite?

For instance the then Cork Multichannel had advertising supported local programmes on its cable network in the 1980s - years prior to the existance of the IRTC, now BCI.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0364/D.0364.198603040051.html

Mike 1972 · 27-07-2009 7:06pm

Yes wasnt there a station set up for the "Cork 800" celebrations along with "Ballyfermot community television" in Dublin and "Province Five" in Navan ?

Elmo · 05-08-2009 2:12pm

Antenna wrote: »

introduction of MMDS to Ireland in early 1990 -
the first commercial premises in the country to get it installed - a pub in Adare, Co. Limerick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCFBSjuiyUY

How long before RTE was put on Horizons service?

History of Irish Cable

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