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DCM won by convicted drug cheat

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Comments

  • #32
    OOnegative
    Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    There is a contract in place. It's not as easy as just give him his costs back. If there is no clause regarding a doping ban then it's very much a legal minefield

    They made a mistake, they made no excuses about it. They admitted it and have resolved to make changes to ensure it doesnt happen again. They are human. They make mistakes. Have you never made a mistake?

    He was an elite entry, he didn’t register online like the other 17 odd thousand that finished yesterday. His credentials obviously weren’t checked properly.

    As to your mistakes point, course i’ve made mistakes but the point i’m trying to make this is a mistake that should not have happened, to late for excuses now. We should be reading about an Irishman winning DCM yesterday in the papers not about some convicted drug cheat doing it.


  • #33
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,848 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    No guarantees that Scullion would've won it if El Goumri hadn't run.


  • #34
    solidasarock
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭solidasarock


    Yeah thats some BS

    "Honoring his entry" after he "slipped threw the cracks" just comes across as incompetent if not potentially corrupt on the side of the organizers.

    No one would question them if they pulled his entry from the race once they seeing their mistake. Letting it slide just raises questions on their judgment.


    In any case I guess we just got to see what happens in the future and hope its a once off blip.


  • #35
    ultrapercy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭ultrapercy


    solidasarock wrote: »
    Yeah thats some BS

    "Honoring his entry" after he "slipped threw the cracks" just comes across as incompetent if not potentially corrupt on the side of the organizers.

    No one would question them if they pulled his entry from the race once they seeing their mistake. Letting it slide just raises questions on their judgment.


    In any case I guess we just got to see what happens in the future and hope its a once off blip.

    The organisers had no grounds to pull his entry. He severed hisban and is free to run the race. I dont know what sort of deals these elites get but whether its apoerance money or just expences it would be a contract that couldnt be legally broken once agreed. It was an error or oversight to contract him but to accuse the organisers of corruption is nonsense, theres nothing they would like more than an irish winner.


  • #36
    justdoit
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭justdoit


    Can I play devil's advocate for a second? Is there no merit in the argument that this is an athlete who has served his time and should therefore be free to compete again?

    In nearly every sport, there are athletes who return from drugs bans and resume their careers.

    I don't like it, but equally I would have thought that an event would be on shaky ground if refusing an entrant a spot based on something that they have already been punished for (I've got absolutely no legal knowledge to back that).

    I'm also a massive Stephen Scullion fan, and it would love to have seen him win, but there is no guarantee that he would have won if the eventual winner wasn't running.


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  • #37
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Lazare wrote: »
    DCM don't pay appearance money or expenses. Jim Aughney is a reg at my parkrun, was chatting to him about it a few weeks ago. Athletes view Dublin as a stepping stone, a win at Dublin gets them paid invites to majors.

    Maybe a more major marathon, but not a Marathon Major as I'm pretty sure that those 6 events won't invite anyone with any previous bans.


  • #38
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    justdoit wrote: »
    Can I play devil's advocate for a second? Is there no merit in the argument that this is an athlete who has served his time and should therefore be free to compete again?

    In nearly every sport, there are athletes who return from drugs bans and resume their careers.

    I don't like it, but equally I would have thought that an event would be on shaky ground if refusing an entrant a spot based on something that they have already been punished for (I've got absolutely no legal knowledge to back that).

    I'm also a massive Stephen Scullion fan, and it would love to have seen him win, but there is no guarantee that he would have won if the eventual winner wasn't running.

    I heard from numerous specialists and documentary makers over the years and the general consensus is you can benefit for up to 4 years from a proper course of ped s. So to take a two year ban where you probably won’t get tested and come back and still go straight into winning races just smacks any honest athletes in the face.

    Have to say fair play to anybody competing in an elite sport still clean. You should get a medal for that alone I’d imagine.


  • #39
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,118 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    OOnegative wrote: »
    He was an elite entry, he didn’t register online like the other 17 odd thousand that finished yesterday. His credentials obviously weren’t checked properly.

    As to your mistakes point, course i’ve made mistakes but the point i’m trying to make this is a mistake that should not have happened, to late for excuses now. We should be reading about an Irishman winning DCM yesterday in the papers not about some convicted drug cheat doing it.

    No guarantee Scullion would have won if the field was different.




    solidasarock wrote: »
    Yeah thats some BS

    "Honoring his entry" after he "slipped threw the cracks" just comes across as incompetent if not potentially corrupt on the side of the organizers.

    No one would question them if they pulled his entry from the race once they seeing their mistake. Letting it slide just raises questions on their judgment.


    In any case I guess we just got to see what happens in the future and hope its a once off blip.

    They made a mistake. But there is contracts signed via an agent. If they just pulled the plug they could have left themselves open to legal action. Dublin marathon probably took legal advice before making a decision but They made the mistake so they honoured the contract so i guess that there will be added stipulations going forward to give them the opportunity to stop a participant if this arises again. Learn from it and move on.


  • #40
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Burkie1203 wrote: »

    They made a mistake. But there is contracts signed via an agent. If they just pulled the plug they could have left themselves open to legal action. Dublin marathon probably took legal advice before making a decision but They made the mistake so they honoured the contract so i guess that there will be added stipulations going forward to give them the opportunity to stop a participant if this arises again. Learn from it and move on.


    They made a mistake ! Yeah a BIG fúcking mistake INVITING him to compete.

    A convicted doper now has the record in the Dublin City Marathon and 12k cash to boot.

    Well done to the organisers. Embrace cheating.


  • #41
    solidasarock
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭solidasarock


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    The organisers had no grounds to pull his entry. He severed hisban and is free to run the race. I dont know what sort of deals these elites get but whether its apoerance money or just expences it would be a contract that couldnt be legally broken once agreed. It was an error or oversight to contract him but to accuse the organisers of corruption is nonsense, theres nothing they would like more than an irish winner.

    If "doesn't meet the rules and standards set for every other elite athlete we let in" isnt grounds to revoke entry I dont knows what is.


    Or maybe they should changes their rules to say "no drug cheats allowed unless we are in a particularly spicy mood that day".



    In the end of the day they chose the integrity of their organization and the race over slightly inconveniencing a disgraced athlete and there will be a giant cloud over that course record until its broken. GG lads.


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  • #42
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Esse85 wrote: »
    The athlete that came second should be pretty annoyed so I'm guessing.


    You could say that.


    “Arguably I might have won the thing if he wasn’t here,” Scullion said, asked about the presence of El Goumri. “But look, I won, I feel like a winner inside, that’s a victory for me. I’ve always taken a stance that drug cheats can do whatever they want, I can’t control it. What else can I do. Not stand on the medal podium? Not buy into it?


    “I want to enjoy my moment, and in six or nine months time if he gets done for another doping violation, then I’m the champ. If the crowd want to believe I’m the champ, let them say. And when the room goes dark at night, I go to bed content knowing I’m clean.”


  • #43
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,251 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Did they not learn from last years mistake.


  • #44
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,418 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    ted1 wrote: »
    Did they not learn from last years mistake.

    What mistake was that?


  • #45
    solidasarock
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭solidasarock


    Maybe they should do a lottery and the winner can take all the PED's they want


  • #46
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    BDI wrote: »
    I heard from numerous specialists and documentary makers over the years and the general consensus is you can benefit for up to 4 years from a proper course of ped s. So to take a two year ban where you probably won’t get tested and come back and still go straight into winning races just smacks any honest athletes in the face.

    This.

    I've heard experts interviewed that claim exactly this - and claim it lasts more than 4 years due to enhanced muscle memory. They were discussing a study of benefits that last into old age rather than competitive events though.


  • #47
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,251 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Murph_D wrote: »
    What mistake was that?

    Sorry it was 2017, when they awarded the national title to someone who wasn’t eligible

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/revised-marathon-result-means-gary-o-hanlon-wins-irish-title-1.3277072%3fmode=amp


  • #48
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,109 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    ted1 wrote: »
    Sorry it was 2017, when they awarded the national title to someone who wasn’t eligible

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/revised-marathon-result-means-gary-o-hanlon-wins-irish-title-1.3277072%3fmode=amp

    AAI run the national marathon. They made the mistake, not DCM.


  • #49
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Steve wrote: »
    This.

    I've heard experts interviewed that claim exactly this - and claim it lasts more than 4 years due to enhanced muscle memory. They were discussing a study of benefits that last into old age rather than competitive events though.


    Most likely a permanent effect of testosterone doping.


    If you look at the list of track & field athletes given sanctions based on biological passports, the vast majority are long distance or marathon runners.


  • #50
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,508 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    Seems it not just DCM that invites past doers.. :(

    Mathew Kisorio, won Beijing marathon in 2:07:06.

    He was busted back in 2012 when he tested positive for steroids and admitted the use of them.

    ttps://marathonview.net/race/109005?count=8


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