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Log Cabins in Ireland

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    #32
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    the_syco wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it's wetter in Ireland, for longer. Don't think it's that humid in those cold places.

    The east of Ireland isn’t that wet as it happens. The west is very wet and windy. Maybe these things should be regulated at county level.


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    #33
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Riar_ wrote: »
    Norway can be far wetter than Ireland and they have plenty of 800 year old log churches still standing.
    Norway can be wetter, but Ireland can be wet longer.


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    #34
    Riar_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12 ✭Riar_


    There is a perception that Ireland is very wet, but it is actually mostly a myth. Outside of the uplands west of the Shannon, Ireland is only a bit wetter than average and countries such as Scotland, Norway, Switzerland, Montenegro, Slovenia are generally wetter. Even Munich is wetter than Dublin.

    For the record, in Norway it rains all the time, not just in summer and wet areas are not so much below freezing so it is not a case that rain is so seasonal that rot is very slow like you might have in somewhere like Whitehorse in Canada.

    For the vast majority of Ireland's past most people lived in entirely organic structures.

    Also Ireland does have very old wooden buildings, like Malahide Castle roof or the ceiling of the medieval church of Fethard. The reason we have so few is due to war and social upheaval.


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    #35
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Wood used in these modern log cabins is not the same oak used in old buildings in Ireland.
    They are not selling solid log cabins but highly chemically treated wood that are really chalets. It is most likely illegal to rent these out for those that do.


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    #36
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Riar_ wrote: »
    Also Ireland does have very old wooden buildings, like Malahide Castle roof or the ceiling of the medieval church of Fethard.
    Although the ceiling of the medieval church of Fethard is wood, the roof which is open to the elements is slated. Malahide Castle has a slated roof.


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    #37
    bono_v
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭bono_v


    How does it work if a Neighbour reports a log cabin ? I live in a private house in Dublin. I have a log cabin out my back garden that my elderly mother in law has lived in for two years. Most of my nieghnours know about this. If one of them complained about us and a planning enforcement officer comes knocking at the door how are they to prove my mother in law is living in a log cabin out our back garden?


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    #38
    zell12
    Registered Users Posts: 23,359 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    bono_v wrote: »
    How does it work if a Neighbour reports a log cabin ? I live in a private house in Dublin. I have a log cabin out my back garden that my elderly mother in law has lived in for two years. Most of my nieghnours know about this. If one of them complained about us and a planning enforcement officer comes knocking at the door how are they to prove my mother in law is living in a log cabin out our back garden?
    They will read your post on boards.
    They also have the power to inspect.


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    #39
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    bono_v wrote:
    How does it work if a Neighbour reports a log cabin ? I live in a private house in Dublin. I have a log cabin out my back garden that my elderly mother in law has lived in for two years. Most of my nieghnours know about this. If one of them complained about us and a planning enforcement officer comes knocking at the door how are they to prove my mother in law is living in a log cabin out our back garden?


    I think you would need to prove she is not living there full time.


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    #40
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    bono_v wrote: »
    How does it work if a Neighbour reports a log cabin ? I live in a private house in Dublin. I have a log cabin out my back garden that my elderly mother in law has lived in for two years. Most of my nieghnours know about this. If one of them complained about us and a planning enforcement officer comes knocking at the door how are they to prove my mother in law is living in a log cabin out our back garden?

    It will be up to you to prove she isn't.

    They can come and inspect at any time... And if has a bedroom, toilet facility, cooking facility and living facility... Then it's obviously for independent living and the first though of the inspector will be "sub standard rental accommodation / air b n b"....


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    #41
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/log-cabin-housing-would-set-a-dangerous-precedent-1.3713304


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    #42
    bono_v
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭bono_v


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    It will be up to you to prove she isn't.

    They can come and inspect at any time... And if has a bedroom, toilet facility, cooking facility and living facility... Then it's obviously for independent living and the first though of the inspector will be "sub standard rental accommodation / air b n b"....
    thanks for the reply. But can they just walk into your house and out your back garden?


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    #43
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Graces7 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/log-cabin-housing-would-set-a-dangerous-precedent-1.3713304

    I suppose the Irish Planning Institute might say that though.

    Had to double read one para “Everything we do has to be sustainable. One off temporary dwellings, ad hoc backland infill and shed/log cabin dwellings in back gardens are not the answer to the housing shortage,”

    Surely what are argued as temporary structures made of timber are a darn sight more sustainable than permanent dwellings with large amounts of concrete poured into the ground and block built upwards?

    Main objection I'd have to 'log cabins' is the appearance, no tradition of structures like that in rural Ireland anyway. Can't see the problem in urban areas but no convinced that they'd fit in in rural sites.

    As regards rain and damp etc., a lot comes down to design. You need a good overhang on the roof to protect the walls as much as possible. And plenty of ventilation all round i.e. not stuck up against some party wall.

    We have timber windows in our house by choice, a little annual maintenance but the thing with timber is that it can be repaired and maintained. Unlike your aluminium and PVC stuff which is just thrown out.


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    #44
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    bono_v wrote: »
    thanks for the reply. But can they just walk into your house and out your back garden?

    Yes they can


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    #45
    bur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭bur


    Fascinating to see this thread after listening to a Guardian podcast about concrete. The most corrupt of all industries apparently so it's not hard to connect the dots as to why there would be such hassle in building with wood in this country.

    Cavan has lots of wooden cabins as holiday accommodation fwiw. maybe a local politician pulled a few strings?


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    #46
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    bur wrote:
    Cavan has lots of wooden cabins as holiday accommodation fwiw. maybe a local politician pulled a few strings?


    Do you understand the difference between holiday accommodation and permanent dwelling?


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    #47
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    bono_v wrote: »
    thanks for the reply. But can they just walk into your house and out your back garden?

    Yes. And with Garda escort if the home owner doesn’t agree to it.


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    #48
    Who2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭Who2


    The issue with Ireland is the changeable weather. Would soaks up moisture and swells, then it could get a quick shot of heat and dry out too fast the surface could get a shot of frost that night will expand remaining moisture and start causing more cracks. After this happens a couple of times it’s only worse it will get, we could have 15 degree heat rain, snow sleet and frost all on the one day. It’s a far more consistent weather in the Scandinavian countries that’s why they last out there.


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    #49
    koheim
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭koheim


    Who2 wrote: »
    The issue with Ireland is the changeable weather. Would soaks up moisture and swells, then it could get a quick shot of heat and dry out too fast the surface could get a shot of frost that night will expand remaining moisture and start causing more cracks. After this happens a couple of times it’s only worse it will get, we could have 15 degree heat rain, snow sleet and frost all on the one day. It’s a far more consistent weather in the Scandinavian countries that’s why they last out there.

    This is a myth!! Weather in Ireland is mild and dry compared to Norway, were all houses are all wood. In Norway it rains more, it gets much colder at winter and it gets warmer at summer. Wood is a superior material, specially in cold and wet climate, but you need to treat and maintain it.


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    #50
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    No rules whatsoever in Ireland to prevent anyone building a house with wood.

    It still has to meet the building regulations though. Most log cabins don't and the ones that do cost the same or more than any other way of building a house that meets the building regulations. If it could be done cheaper every developer would already be doing it that way!

    This is a completely separate issue than building a second house in a unsuitable back yard. That would be refused planning permission regardless of whether it is proposed to be built out of timber, concrete, steel, stone, clay, straw or any other material you can think of.

    Two sets of INDEPENDENT rules to meet:
    1. Planning Regulations
    2. Building Regulations


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    #51
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    kceire wrote: »
    Yes. And with Garda escort if the home owner doesn’t agree to it.

    The Garda doesn’t have the power to enter property without a warrant unless he has reasonable suspicion that an offence is being committed. I assume that the planning &development control acts may grant rights of access but in those cases the Garda would be along for the ride as opposed to providing the means of access. Revenue/Customs (for example) have broader powers of entry than the gardai.


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    #52
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Mud cabins were once part of our housing stock. I doubt anyone would want to live in one now, but they did offer shelter to families in times past. Here's a good description of the basic structure: https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4428087/4377025

    If mud was good enough for our climate in the past, can't see too much issue with wood :)


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    #53
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    If mud was good enough for our climate in the past, can't see too much issue with wood :)

    and life expectancy back then was 50, today its 80

    TB was rampant due to the wet cold mud huts we used to live in ... killing as much as 25% of the adult population at the time.

    sorry to be blunt, but its naive statements like that above which show that sometimes people simply need to be saved from themselves.... thus we have planning standards and building regulations.


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    #54
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    sydthebeat wrote: »

    TB was rampant due to the wet cold mud huts we used to live in ... killing as much as 25% of the adult population at the time.
    ...........

    Mud is dry and warm, they were dying because they were breeding like rats, 20 kids, no food and all that


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    #55
    Who2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭Who2


    koheim wrote: »
    This is a myth!! Weather in Ireland is mild and dry compared to Norway, were all houses are all wood. In Norway it rains more, it gets much colder at winter and it gets warmer at summer. Wood is a superior material, specially in cold and wet climate, but you need to treat and maintain it.

    Yes but it’s consistent for long spells, in Ireland there are constant changes daily, look at the weather the last few weeks. There’s a log cabin built about two miles from my house, I’d know the owner well and have been at it regularly, it’s well maintained and up around 12 years, he sold it last year as it had started to rot it multiple places, in contrast we were working on a house built in 1942 that had no one living in it constantly for over twenty years that was still as tight as the day it went up. Now if someone wants a short term fix a log cabins a grand stop gap but they are a false investment.


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    #56
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Mud is dry and warm......


    Ermmm...

    No it isn't.


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    #57
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    https://www.daft.ie/cavan/houses-for-sale/bawnboy/owengallis-bawnboy-cavan-1846613/#img=6


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    #58
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    Most definitely does not comply with the building regulations. I can tell that from the pictures.

    I don't know if it has planning permission - but I doubt it!


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    #59
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Metric Tensor wrote: »
    Most definitely does not comply with the building regulations. I can tell that from the pictures.

    I don't know if it has planning permission - but I doubt it!

    those pics definitely arent an advertisement for log cabins.... !!!

    the quality of construction and finishing is shameful.


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    #60
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    sorry to be blunt, but its naive statements like that above which show that sometimes people simply need to be saved from themselves.... thus we have planning standards and building regulations.

    I'm not suggesting we move back to mud cabins. But at same time I take a jaundiced view of those who seek to invest a sense of mystery and the requirement for professional competence in the construction of basic dwellings.

    Part at least of the reason why we have housing problems, is that we've over complicated the process of providing shelter and taken it further away from the competence of the average individual.

    There are many vested interests who are happy to keep the cost of housing at the higher end; landowners, planners, construction professionals, trades, financial institutions, investors and those that own property etc etc.

    Maybe dwellings that only last 50 years would be better for the common man or woman. I know in parts of N.America, that buildings go through cycles and are replaced often within 2-3 generations.


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    #61
    JimmyMW
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭JimmyMW


    I cant understand how this debate goes on and on, if one is building something they have to comply with the building regulations and planning laws, if not they are breaking the law, same as tax evasion etc, its breaking the law, thats it. Once one can get planning for it and can provide evidence that the proposed building material complies with the building regulations, it can be built out of virtually any material.

    Regulations are in place to provide a minimum standard of building, to avoid the substandard buildings of the past, this exists in every other industry, for example the car industry has minimum standards, and if one decides to build their own car they have to meet minimum standards. Obviously one can live in a basic house or top of the range house, however both need to meet a minimum standard. If purchasing one is not possible then renting is the next avenue to be explored or alternatively apply to be housed to the state if renting is also not an option.

    Home ownership is not a right, if one cannot afford to own a home which is built in accordance with the afore mentioned laws, it would be ridiculous to suggest building a home which does not comply with the law in order to suit the finances of the individual in question. Going back to the car example above I am sure we would be outraged if the state allowed someone to drive an un-roadworthy car because they could not afford a roadworthy one.

    Rant over


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