Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Joe Schmidt

Options
13»

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    desertcircus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    Surely there's no doubt about our first choice nine? Murray's far, far ahead of Reddan and Boss, and I say that as a Leinster supporter who thought his selection ahead of Reddan in 2011 was inexplicable. He's the best option available by a mile, and while Reddan and Boss' retirements may see Luke McGrath take a step up, the jersey is his to lose at the moment. Unless Reddan pilots Leinster to another European Cup, or James Hart collects multiple MOTM awards and a Top 14 title, Murray will remain the best option.


  • Options
    #63
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    desertcircus wrote: »
    Surely there's no doubt about our first choice nine?

    There isn't in the minds of the vast majority of people including the only ones that matter.


  • Options
    #64
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,989 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    desertcircus wrote: »
    Surely there's no doubt about our first choice nine? .

    ill all due respect to boss, marmion, reddan ..... i dont think the best attributes of the 3 of them together could even replace Murray... hes that far out ahead as our best SH

    and generally regarded as one of the best 2/3 SHs in the world, and certainly the best SH on the last lions tour.


    edit: no flies on thomond2006 ;)


  • Options
    #65
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    ill all due respect to boos, marmion, reddan ..... i dont think the best attributes of the 3 of them together could even replace Murray... hes that far out ahead as our best SH

    and generally regarded as one of the best 2/3 SHs in the world, and certainly the best SH on the last lions tour.
    Bit harsh :pac:


  • Options
    #66
    Reps4jesus
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Reps4jesus


    I wasn't a huge Murray fan at all when he first came on the scene, however ever since the lions tour I think he has been outstanding. There are a few good 9's around (smith, parra, youngs, webb) but I wouldn't swap any of them for Murray. He is a proper top class player.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    accidentprone1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 541 ✭✭✭accidentprone1


    kidneyfan wrote: »
    Certainly I think you are right when you say that people (including me) made their mind up about him. He is an unconventional scrum half and has many sterling qualities.

    I am surprised at the conflation of quick and panicky ball. The scrum half's job is to get the ball away quickly without panicking.

    Of course Ireland have a unique style. We are great exponents of the kick and chase game and this is something that Murray APPEARS to do well. I am honest enough to admit that if Sexton or O'Gara (or Madigan, Marmion, either Kearney etc.) had put up the box kick to Henshaw into the corner I would have attributed it to intention and ability. With Murray I am not so sure.

    You describe him as the best scrum half of the professional era (and therefore ever) but in many ways he isn't a scrum half at all.

    Can I draw attention to this for a bit?


    How is he, in many ways, not a scrum half?


  • Options
    #68
    TommyOM
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭TommyOM


    Murray has come a long way since the rugby world cup where he was completely out of his depth. He is unquestionably the first choice and is a world class player at the moment. Talk of dropping him is madness.


  • Options
    #69
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    accidentprone1 wrote: »
    Can I draw attention to this for a bit?


    How is he, in many ways, not a scrum half?
    He is a unique sort of unconventional scrum half. In many ways very good if your taste runs to that sort of thing. Anyway I seem to be in a minority of 1 in other words a crank.


  • Options
    #70
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    .ak wrote: »
    Can you elaborate on this? I'm probably repeating myself, but what makes a good scrumhalf are the following qualities; passing accuracy, off left and right hands, speed, endurance, fitness, vision, decision making under pressure, communication, kicking from hand.
    You're right and at least he is a hard worker.


  • Options
    #71
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    kidneyfan wrote: »
    He cannot deliver quick accurate ball to the backline.
    Example? He probably has the most accurate pass in the country? :confused:
    I doubt that he can dive pass.
    You do realize scrumhalves only do this when they're a weak passer, right?
    He isn't nimble.
    Again incorrect, just look at the amount of snipes, half breaks and tries he's scored. He's extremely nimble. He'll never be Reddan or Stringer nimble but who cares, he's absolutely smashing at everything else.
    He gets involved in rucks.
    Yes, and it directly leads to us scoring tries. What's the problem? This isn't 1995 where the scrumhalf is the only person allowed to touch the ball.
    His last pointless box kick against France allowed them to start their final move where they nearly drew.

    We needed an exit strategy and you're clutching at straws here by going back over a year to find an example.

    I don't reckon you'll respond to any of the above as you ignored everything else I've said but it's pretty clear you have no examples or findings for any of the above opinion... So I don't really see any point in continuing, you'll probably never change your opinion, even if it is misinformed. It's a pity, because players like Murray are once-in-a-generation and it's a pity you can't just enjoy that...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    .ak wrote: »
    ... players like Murray are once-in-a-generation and it's a pity you can't just enjoy that...
    You're right it is a pity. The problem with going into things in detail is that it gets personalised and vitriolic. Too much criticism of one player makes the person doing the criticism seem mental.


  • Options
    #73
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm just enjoying the irony of a poster called kidneyfan complaining about Murray when Kidney disastrously started him when he was woefully out of his depth but he has since developed into a very, very good scrum half.

    He's still a bit slow at times for my liking, but that's the game Ireland play and Reddan is a very good change of pace of the bench. Murray is unquestionably number 1 though.


  • Options
    #74
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    kidneyfan wrote: »
    The problem with going into things in detail is that it gets personalised and vitriolic. Too much criticism of one player makes the person doing the criticism seem mental.

    Unwarranted criticism makes a person look as though they have a personal agenda. There has been nothing personalised or vitriolic posted about your comments


  • Options
    #75
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    Synode wrote: »
    Unwarranted criticism makes a person look as though they have a personal agenda. There has been nothing personalised or vitriolic posted about your comments
    I haven't suggested that there has been.


  • Options
    #76
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    kidneyfan wrote: »
    I haven't suggested that there has been.

    I haven't suggested you did :pac:

    Enough :p


  • Options
    #77
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I'm just enjoying the irony of a poster called kidneyfan complaining about Murray when Kidney disastrously started him when he was woefully out of his depth but he has since developed into a very, very good scrum half.

    He's still a bit slow at times for my liking, but that's the game Ireland play and Reddan is a very good change of pace of the bench. Murray is unquestionably number 1 though.

    Seems to be fairly fast accoring to Andy McGeady in Irish Times?
    According to Opta, Schmidt’s side were best at retaining ruck ball while figures supplied by Prozone show Ireland were also quickest at recycling it. That’s a powerful combination.
    At an average of 2.9 seconds per ruck that recycling speed was just under the important three second mark generally accepted in the game as signifying “quick ball”. Per Prozone, Ireland also enjoyed the highest ratio of activity per ruck arrival; a useful measure of picking out ruck inspectors. And Ireland had the fewest offloads, of course. Joe doesn’t do offloads.

    All the other teams in the 6Ns were over 3 seconds recycling.

    Another interesting stat:
    In the backs Ireland filled the top four cleanout totals: Jared Payne (42), Simon Zebo (41), Henshaw (35) and Tommy Bowe (32).

    Not bad for a lad who missed a game!

    http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/staying-grounded-key-to-irish-success-in-more-ways-than-one-1.2151467


  • Options
    #78
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,774 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    I think the last time I saw a scrum half dive pass was 1988 when our under 14 team were hammering the mighty rbai.

    *we won 41 - 0 that day en route to an 18 match unbeaten season!!*


  • Options
    #79
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Bradley used to do it a lot cause he couldn't pass for sh@te


  • Options
    #80
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    83843611-piri-weepu-of-the-all-blacks-dive-passes-the-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QQttaMoSbObbOrpRYvbVF05RMeSPm8oHghK6GTc9SGh0EAwQD5QS2y2HArzIPB35Xg%3d%3d
    stephen_n wrote: »
    Bradley used to do it a lot cause he couldn't pass for sh@te


    I suppose your man Weepu can't pass either?


  • Options
    #81
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Trust me, any scrumhalf will tell you the reason you dive pass is if it's an emergency to get the ball to go further, i.e if the first receiver is too far from the ruck for whatever reason.

    It's NOT something you want to be doing, nor should you need to do it. Ireland are far too precise to let things like that happen, that's why you won't see Murray doing it - not sure why it would be a prerequisite either.

    Murray also has a lot of power in his pass, one of the main benefits of being a giant scrumhalf, he will never need to throw himself over the deck to get a pass to travel 20-30 meters.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    Mahatma Geansai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    .ak wrote: »
    Trust me, any scrumhalf will tell you the reason you dive pass is if it's an emergency to get the ball to go further, i.e if the first receiver is too far from the ruck for whatever reason.

    It's NOT something you want to be doing, nor should you need to do it. Ireland are far too precise to let things like that happen, that's why you won't see Murray doing it - not sure why it would be a prerequisite either.

    Murray also has a lot of power in his pass, one of the main benefits of being a giant scrumhalf, he will never need to throw himself over the deck to get a pass to travel 20-30 meters.

    Murray's long-range passing from the base is one of the strongest and most underrated aspects to his game. His ability to reliably hit 2nd and 3rd receivers has been a huge source of tries in the opposition 22 for both Munster and Ireland; it allows him to vary the point of attack and massively stretch the opposition defence.


Advertisement