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What steps should be taken to make Ireland great again?

1246

Comments

  • #92
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Meanwhile in Cork .... https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Council-urged-to-meet-residents-on-future-of-litter-blackspot-025e93d9-a521-4196-9471-3c8680045347-ds
    CORK City Council has been urged to meet residents of Spring Lane and nearby housing estates to discuss dumping activities and suspicious fires on a nearby site, which was once earmarked for Traveller accommodation.

    Ellis’s Yard, adjacent to a halting site and nearby housing estate, has long been a hotbed of illegal dumping. There has been a spate of fires there in recent weeks.

    City Hall faces a potential €250,000 bill for the clean-up of the illegal dumping.
    Figures show that units of Cork City Fire Brigade have been called out to Ellis’s Yard 136 times in the past two years and that more than €500,000 has been spent on major clean-ups of the area since 2003.

    And they don't know who is doing the dumping. Meanwhile the settled community are paying bin charges. FFS.

    All I am asking is that they treat these people the same as everyone else, i.e. true equality.


  • #93
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Top 5 hard right fantasies in one post.

    I love how quick you are to label anything you don't like as "hard right."

    Revoking Travellers' ethnic status is a no-brainer because it never should have been awarded in the first place. Genetic tests show that Travellers are as Irish as the rest of us -- they are not of Roma origin as was once assumed. Any genetic discrepancy between Travellers and settled people arises from a history of consanguineous marriage among the former, i.e., repeated inbreeding among cousins, and not from any actual ethnic difference.

    And asking for an actual legal system is a hard-right fantasy? Is it really too much to ask that violent criminals and repeat offenders with hundreds of convictions get more than a token slap on the wrist when they go to court?

    In the news lately ...

    -- A man who robbed €2,500 in cash from an 87-year-old outside a Bank of Ireland branch claimed that he had been experiencing a "manic episode" and got off with a suspended sentence.

    -- A man caught "minding" over €600,000 worth of heroin and cocaine in a car park at Dublin Airport was also handed a suspended sentence.

    -- A woman who starved her two dogs to the point where they almost died was fined €100 and given a three-month suspended sentence.

    -- A man who punched his former partner in the mouth outside a creche, and repeatedly punched her to the head and body and kicked her after she had fallen to the ground, all in front of their 2-year-old daughter, was only jailed after the DPP appealed his suspended sentence as unduly lenient.

    You don't have to be a hard-right Stormfronter to see that something is seriously wrong with the judicial system in Ireland.


  • #94
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    I love how quick you are to label anything you don't like as "hard right."


    It's what they are though. Eliminate social welfare entitlements. Harden the justice system. Eliminate ethnic minorities. Reduce foreigners. All hard rigth policies. None of them well thought out and all of them likely to make the country worse.

    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    Revoking Travellers' ethnic status is a no-brainer because it never should have been awarded in the first place. Genetic tests show that Travellers are as Irish as the rest of us -- they are not of Roma origin as was once assumed. Any genetic discrepancy between Travellers and settled people arises from a history of consanguineous marriage among the former, i.e., repeated inbreeding among cousins, and not from any actual ethnic difference.


    How does their ethnic status make the country worse? More importantly, what benefit will removing it provide?

    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    And asking for an actual legal system is a hard-right fantasy? Is it really too much to ask that violent criminals and repeat offenders with hundreds of convictions get more than a token slap on the wrist when they go to court?

    In the news lately ...

    -- A man who robbed €2,500 in cash from an 87-year-old outside a Bank of Ireland branch claimed that he had been experiencing a "manic episode" and got off with a suspended sentence.

    -- A man caught "minding" over €600,000 worth of heroin and cocaine in a car park at Dublin Airport was also handed a suspended sentence.

    -- A woman who starved her two dogs to the point where they almost died was fined €100 and given a three-month suspended sentence.

    -- A man who punched his former partner in the mouth outside a creche, and repeatedly punched her to the head and body and kicked her after she had fallen to the ground, all in front of their 2-year-old daughter, was only jailed after the DPP appealed his suspended sentence as unduly lenient.


    You don't have to be a hard-right Stormfronter to see that something is seriously wrong with the judicial system in Ireland.


    He didn't just ask for an actual legal system though. He specifically stated by removing weak judges. The implication being that we need judges to be harder. A stricter and more punishment focused justice system is a right wing policy. There are other ways to reduce crime and improve the justice system.


  • #95
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    It's what they are though. Eliminate social welfare entitlements. Harden the justice system. Eliminate ethnic minorities. Reduce foreigners. All hard rigth policies.

    He didn't propose eliminating social welfare payments -- he proposed cutting them. People on social welfare should not enjoy a better standard of living, have more free time, and be able to afford more children than people who are working.

    Similarly, he didn't propose to eliminate ethnic minorities. He merely indicated that we should not be recognizing people as ethnic minorities who are as Irish as everyone else, and we also should not be letting immigrants into the country without proper vetting of their backgrounds and records.
    How does their ethnic status make the country worse? More importantly, what benefit will removing it provide?

    Their newfound ethnic status has placed them above criticism. The newspapers are even afraid to use the T-word when describing criminal activity by gangs of Travellers, for fear of seeming racist.
    The implication being that we need judges to be harder.

    Most moderate, centrist people looking at some of the ridiculous sentences handed down in our courts would agree that we need harsher sentencing and judges who will do do more than dole out token slaps on the wrist to violent and repeat offenders.


  • #96
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    He didn't propose eliminating social welfare payments -- he proposed cutting them. People on social welfare should not enjoy a better standard of living, have more free time, and be able to afford more children than people who are working.


    He proposed eliminating housing provision didn't he? Is that not a social welfare benefit? He also wanted to reduce social welfare benefits overall. Are you going to argue these are not right wing policies or stick to pedantry. Do you even know how much people on social welfare get? There's definitely room to improve the system and target the more vulnerable for additional benefits but across the board cuts will only result in an increase in crime and increase suffering for those who need it.

    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    Similarly, he didn't propose to eliminate ethnic minorities. Merely that we should not be recognizing people as ethnic minorities who are as Irish as everyone else,


    He proposed to eliminate an entire ethnic group. he just wants to do it with the stroke of a pen.

    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    and we should not be letting immigrants into the country without proper vetting of their backgrounds and records.

    Freedom of movement simply means we treat European citizens as we do our own. They are subject to the same restrictions we are and more. They also contribute massively to the work force and are proportionally less likely to be on social welfare than natives. and more likely to pay tax.
    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    Their newfound ethnic status has placed them above criticism. The newspapers are even afraid to use the T-word when describing criminal activity by gangs of Travellers, for fear of seeming racist.

    That was the case before their status changed. You still haven't said how it would benefit the country though.
    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    Most moderate, centrist people looking at some of the ridiculous sentences handed down in our courts would agree that we need harsher sentencing and judges will do do more than dole out slaps on the wrist.


    Most also recognise that this is not really possible as our prisons are full. The solution is to build more prisons or target the causes of crime and recidivism.


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  • #97
    abcabc123123
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭abcabc123123


    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    Most moderate, centrist people looking at some of the ridiculous sentences handed down in our courts would agree that we need harsher sentencing and judges who will do do more than dole out token slaps on the wrist to violent and repeat offenders.
    Centrists tend to be aware that the world is complicated and try to avoid forming policy on the basis on a couple of headlines. Rather they generally leave policy to those who have spent large portions of their professional lives researching their subject matter.

    Law enforcement best practice these days recognises that deterrence isn't particularly effective and that incarcerating petty criminals can make things worse.


  • #98
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Cina wrote: »
    So basically, the US?

    That's worked out great for them, hasn't it. 3% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prison population. Costing them an absolute fortune in the meantime.

    No not like the US.
    The US has insane laws regarding prison time.

    They have a 3 strike law which means if you commit 3 separate felony then you go to prison for life. A felony can be something as simple as shop lifting.

    Thats not what im suggesting at all. However i do think if someone racks up 50 convictions (not 3) they should be severely sentenced. If someone cannot avoid racking up that many convictions then society can do without them.

    The US also has insane amount of people in prison for drug use. Something like 50% are for drug offences. Granted this can be anything from usage to distribution but its mostly for possession.

    There is no point in putting a person in prison for drug use as they will just get drugs in prison and be back on the street causing the same problems. They need to be placed in rehab facilities which gets them clean and doesnt punish them.


  • #99
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    we all need caps that say 'make Ireland great again', and we need to build a wall. somewhere.


  • #100
    elbyrneo
    Registered Users Posts: 550 ✭✭✭elbyrneo


    We just need to move the island about 1000 kilometres South.

    Plenty of Sun, outdoor living, great for tourism. I guess farmers might be impacted by the weather but sure they'd get more subsidies from the EU wouldn't they?

    Seems a no brainer to me, God knows why it's not been considered before.


  • #101
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    He didn't just ask for an actual legal system though. He specifically stated by removing weak judges. The implication being that we need judges to be harder. A stricter and more punishment focused justice system is a right wing policy. There are other ways to reduce crime and improve the justice system.


    Look up literally ANY violent criminal in the news, they will have 50-100 previous convictions yet were still allowed to walk free each time, we need to at least change the law so judges can be sued, as they have a duty of care to society and are failing en masse.


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  • #102
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    El_Bee wrote: »
    Look up literally ANY violent criminal in the news, they will have 50-100 previous convictions yet were still allowed to walk free each time, we need to at least change the law so judges can be sued, as they have a duty of care to society and are failing en masse.


    I'm not sure where you are getting this duty of care from. I believe their duty is to apply the law in line with precedent. That's what they are doing. If you want that to change you have to change the law by statute. You look at any Judge who does implement harsh penalties, even in the district court, and you will see a massive appeal rate for the sentence. At this stage that can only be fixed quickly by the intervention of the legislature. And you still have the issue of people being released from prisons due to overcrowding.


  • #103
    Bigbagofcans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Bigbagofcans


    Fiftyfilthy wrote: »
    3) unemployed over 6 months, food stamps, community service work

    We'd have a lot more homelessness if food stamps were brought in - more alcoholics/addicts on the streets.


  • #104
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,532 ✭✭✭worded


    T Shirts with “make ireland Grand again”


  • #105
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    He also wanted to reduce social welfare benefits overall. Are you going to argue these are not right wing policies or stick to pedantry.

    Many people appreciate that taxing working people to the hilt so that we can dole out €20+ billion a year on social welfare is insane. That doesn't make them hard-right Stormfronters.
    He proposed to eliminate an entire ethnic group. he just wants to do it with the stroke of a pen.

    A made-up ethnic group that did not even exist two years ago. So we'd just go back to the way things were in early 2017?
    That was the case before their status changed. You still haven't said how it would benefit the country though.

    It would let people hold Travellers accountable for the very high rates of unemployment, crime, domestic violence, anti-social behavior, child marriage, early school leaving, etc., in their communities without being confronted with spurious accusations of "racism."

    The logic since Kenny's statement has been to describe any criticism of Travellers as "racism" even when that criticism is entirely legitimate and warranted. Their ethnic status is being used by the left to suppress free speech.


  • #106
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    I'm not sure where you are getting this duty of care from. I believe their duty is to apply the law in line with precedent. That's what they are doing. If you want that to change you have to change the law by statute. You look at any Judge who does implement harsh penalties, even in the district court, and you will see a massive appeal rate for the sentence. At this stage that can only be fixed quickly by the intervention of the legislature. And you still have the issue of people being released from prisons due to overcrowding.


    The way I'm looking at it is, if I'm walking down the road and some guy cracks me on the back of the head and takes my wallet/phone, and it turns out this guy has 60+ convictions for doing the same thing, why can't I hold the Judge(s) who let him walk each time responsible?


  • #107
    Fiftyfilthy
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Fiftyfilthy


    Bigbagofcans wrote: »
    We'd have a lot more homelessness if food stamps were brought in - more alcoholics/addicts on the streets.

    Build more hostels then


  • #108
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    And you still have the issue of people being released from prisons due to overcrowding.

    That's why we need to have privately run prisons so we don't run out of space.
    I don't think it will reduce crime rates but we can at least line the pockets of wealthy businessmen who can then provide low paying jobs in harsh conditions.


  • #109
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    maccored wrote: »
    we all need caps that say 'make Ireland great again', and we need to build a wall. somewhere.

    America wants to be made great again by building a wall so we should double down and become super great by building 2 walls.
    One separating us from the North and one separating us from Cork.


  • #110
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Ireland was never great.
    We swapped Brits for Me Feiners.

    Anything great about Ireland comes from socialism and we need more of it.
    We've FF/FG playing at politics when they are two cartels who need to be seen to serve the public.

    We need social and affordable housing. An end to subsidising private housing business with tax payer money.
    State built and owned rentals are better value than the state renting or buying privately. That's a fact, so get over the 'forever home' sh*te. It's that or hotels ffs.
    The next crash, NO BAILOUTS. If you gamble and lose take it on the chin like the rest of us who got accused of 'going mad' or 'partying'.

    No children's allowance after two kids. You have a third, that's your right, but we ain't paying :)

    Stop letting doctors use large waiting lists as an advert for their private clinic.
    Get professionals from outside of Ireland to come in and audit the HSE. We are obviously unable or unwilling to tackle it ourselves.

    Bring in legislation that penalises any councilor or TD found to have behaved inappropriately, fraudulently with fines and if a minister is sacked, they lose the pension for that post.

    Abolish the f***ing Seanad. Watchdog of government my hole.

    How's that for a start?


  • #111
    Pissartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 473 ✭✭Pissartist


    A united Ireland with no borders


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  • #112
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Feisar wrote: »
    I think the poster meant that, if it's a social welfare house.

    ah ok!
    makes sense ... apologies.


  • #113
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    El_Bee wrote: »
    The way I'm looking at it is, if I'm walking down the road and some guy cracks me on the back of the head and takes my wallet/phone, and it turns out this guy has 60+ convictions for doing the same thing, why can't I hold the Judge(s) who let him walk each time responsible?

    Apparently you're on the "hard right" if you expect this thug to go to jail.


  • #114
    Austria!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Austria!


    Import hotties


  • #115
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Bigbagofcans wrote: »
    We'd have a lot more homelessness if food stamps were brought in - more alcoholics/addicts on the streets.


    More for the chain gangs I guess.


    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    Many people appreciate that taxing working people to the hilt so that we can dole out €20+ billion a year on social welfare is insane. That doesn't make them hard-right Stormfronters.

    It doesn't.
    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    A made-up ethnic group that did not even exist two years ago. So we'd just go back to the way things were in early 2017?

    When travellers posed no issue?
    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    It would let people hold Travellers accountable for the very high rates of unemployment, crime, domestic violence, anti-social behavior, child marriage, early school leaving, etc., in their communities without being confronted with spurious accusations of "racism."


    It wouldn't do any of that. It didn't before. What do you think would, or could, happen the day after ethnic status was removed?

    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    The logic since Kenny's statement has been to describe any criticism of Travellers as "racism" even when that criticism is entirely legitimate and warranted. Their ethnic status is being used by the left to suppress free speech.


    It was the same before they had ethnic status. Membership of the travelling community was a separate but equal status as ethnicity.

    El_Bee wrote: »
    The way I'm looking at it is, if I'm walking down the road and some guy cracks me on the back of the head and takes my wallet/phone, and it turns out this guy has 60+ convictions for doing the same thing, why can't I hold the Judge(s) who let him walk each time responsible?


    Why not hold the Garda who arrested him the last time responsible? Or the governor who released him from prison? Judges are generally bound by precedent and by prison capacity. You have to change both of those things to accomplish what you want. Changing the judge won't change anything. That's not to say some judges aren't off the reservation completely and impeachment should not be a more utilised procedure but in most cases that's not the case.

    tuxy wrote: »
    That's why we need to have privately run prisons so we don't run out of space.
    I don't think it will reduce crime rates but we can at least line the pockets of wealthy businessmen who can then provide low paying jobs in harsh conditions.


    Sounds like a utopia.


  • #116
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Tinley Scarce Sin wrote: »
    Many people appreciate that taxing working people to the hilt so that we can dole out €20+ billion a year on social welfare is insane. That doesn't make them hard-right Stormfronters....

    I'd say it makes them poorly informed, conned or willingly perpetuating a con.

    That money goes towards the sick, poor and elderly, their services and social welfare for the minuscule numbers unemployed.
    A lot of it goes towards subsidising rents to private landlords and hotel bills because we've a housing crisis. Due in no small part to gross incompetence by government, who operate and control this system, yet let's all say all that money goes to dem that want something for nothing, because it keeps it simple like.


  • #117
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Why not hold the Garda who arrested him the last time responsible? Or the governor who released him from prison? Judges are generally bound by precedent and by prison capacity. You have to change both of those things to accomplish what you want. Changing the judge won't change anything. That's not to say some judges aren't off the reservation completely and impeachment should not be a more utilised procedure but in most cases that's not the case.


    Gardai are hamstrung, they bring these guys into court and see them walk out 30 mins later, there's a great AMA with a Gardai on here talking about it, most criminal know full well they will not see jail time for most crimes, it's a huge cultural problem among the judiciary which needs to change.


  • #118
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    El_Bee wrote: »
    Gardai are hamstrung, they bring these guys into court and see them walk out 30 mins later, there's a great AMA with a Gardai on here talking about it, most criminal know full well they will not see jail time for most crimes, it's a huge cultural problem among the judiciary which needs to change.


    But that's just the thing. It can't just change. Judges are bound by the precedent set before them. If they give a harsh sentence it will be appealed based on it's harshness compared to other sentences for the same crime.


  • #119
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    But that's just the thing. It can't just change. Judges are bound by the precedent set before them. If they give a harsh sentence it will be appealed based on it's harshness compared to other sentences for the same crime.


    I'm not asking for muggers or aggravated burglars to get life, it's a bit scary to think that something like 3-5 is harsh or "draconian".


  • #120
    oLoonatic
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭oLoonatic


    Do anything the "yellow vest" brigade want. they seem to have well thought out and practical ideas.


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  • #121
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    oLoonatic wrote: »
    Do anything the "yellow vest" brigade want. they seem to have well thought out and practical ideas.

    Did you attend the yellow vest protest in Dublin? It was some spectacle but on the opposite end of the scale to the Paris ones!

    fqdxb804yma21.jpg


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