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Monsanto ruled to have caused man’s cancer

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Comments

  • #92
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    So should I stop using round up?(have it in the shed. Use it once in a blue moon because I have a dog that likes to eat grass I don’t use it in the back yard).

    And should we stop eating apples? We eat one every day :eek:


  • #93
    chite
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭chite


    To the people saying to use vinegar and salt for weeds, that's way worse than roundup. Salt accumulates in soil, and it'll make the soil inhospitable so no plant wouldn't grow where it's put and the vinegar is not biodegradable. Plus the fact that unless you're using it on tiny shoots, you'd probably need repeated applications so just adding to the problem.

    I would rather weed manually, whether by hand or with a rotavator for larger areas when it's comes to a veg plot or garden (plus the clover method). Would be interested in how organic farming practices compare to conventional farms, One such farm is David Laughlin up in Colraine, Co. Derry and would be great if more farms were like this, however would people be prepared to pay more for their produce...

    Herbicide use when it comes to tackling invasive plant species is ok IMO, provided it's carried out by a trained contractor while considering for designated sites (SAC etc.), protected species nearby, properties etc. If you were trying to manually remove Japanese knotweed, you wouldn't get far and you would be just causing it to spread more. It's controlled by stem injection applications over a number of years until there's no regrowth, so there's no spraying involved. Gunnera tinctoria is sprayed but the root is targeted so would regard it as safe provided ppe is used and used properly.


  • #94
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Discodog wrote: »
    How can it be avoided ? My clients want weed free driveways, patios etc.

    A simple salt targeted solution (paved patios only where don't want anything else growing) will kill most, and can be put down on a windy day without any risk of health risk.

    A standard 10 note weed burner will quickly clear a driveway for a good while too.

    Some folks even use plain simple bleach root injections for Japanese knotweed as a last resort over roundup chemical concoctions and such.


  • #95
    chite
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭chite


    Messiah Limited Jackhammer wrote: »
    A simple salt targeted solution (paved patios only where don't want anything else growing) will kill most, and can be put down on a windy day without any risk of health risk.

    A standard 10 note weed burner will quickly clear a driveway for a good while too.

    Some folks even use plain simple bleach root injections for Japanese knotweed as a last resort over roundup chemical concoctions and such.

    This is seriously terrible advice, regarding the salt and bleach - there's much better and safer alternatives which are designed especially for use as herbicides. They're hazardous for soil and groundwater if it seeped in.


  • #96
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,821 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    chite wrote: »
    This is seriously terrible advice, regarding the salt and bleach - there's much better and safer alternatives which are designed especially for use as herbicides. They're hazardous for soil and groundwater if it seeped in.

    I agree & a burner isn't much use on tarmac


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  • #97
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Some folks specifically with Jap' knotweed (difficult to eradicate) said bleach injections was the only thing that worked.

    Salt on the tarmac, Burner on the Patio.

    Or in situations like this, ask what did mankind do over the many thousands of years or growing stuff do in the past?
    I.e. put down the sprayer, pick up and tool and apply some elbow grease.


  • #98
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Discodog wrote: »
    How can it be avoided ? My clients want weed free driveways, patios etc.

    so?
    People kept drives etc clear before toxic chemicals..sure harder work.

    Also one thing not mentioned is the effect of roundup on bees.

    http://www.glyphosate.news/2016-06-27-study-shows-honeybees-are-starving-because-of-roundup.html

    Our pollinators are endangered already and the effects on crops will be dire


  • #99
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Graces7 wrote: »
    so?
    People kept drives etc clear before toxic chemicals..sure harder work.

    Also one thing not mentioned is the effect of roundup on bees.

    http://www.glyphosate.news/2016-06-27-study-shows-honeybees-are-starving-because-of-roundup.html

    Our pollinators are endangered already and the effects on crops will be dire

    And the Brexiters (inc NI) may well find themselves outside of EU legislation and able to spray what they like until laws are updated and amended.

    Short-term gainz, for long-term pains.


  • #100
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,821 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Graces7 wrote: »
    so?
    People kept drives etc clear before toxic chemicals..sure harder work.

    Also one thing not mentioned is the effect of roundup on bees.

    http://www.glyphosate.news/2016-06-27-study-shows-honeybees-are-starving-because-of-roundup.html

    Our pollinators are endangered already and the effects on crops will be dire

    Probably because it's one study, on a small sample & doesn't appear to be repeated. There are lots of factors in the decline of honey bees. The study use feeding of the chemical. There needs to be a proper field study where bees forage on areas treated with chemical.

    I must remember to tell my clients, some of them elderly, that they need to work harder or pay me more.


  • #101
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Oh I wouldn't get too excited about Monsanto going down, such large corporations are almost invincible, they ll be grand

    "Too big to fall"? Hmmm, somehow that reminds me of something...
    Daniella Cold Dude wrote: »
    Genetic modification can be positive or negative. Modifying vegetables to be more nutritious is usually good. Modifying crops to survive being doused in Roundup is bad because there are serious concerns about using or consuming Roundup.

    I watched a documentary about Canadian wheat crops, a few months ago. Because of the weather, the wheat plants don't have enough time to dry naturally, so to speed things along the crops are doused with Roundup to kill the plants and "dry" them; that way the wheat grain can be harvested just a couple of days later. They also said that no tests were carried out to check what the weedkiller residue was on the actual grains, as that was not a requirement. It was also suggested that that could be an explanation as to why wheat and gluten intolerance has increased so much over the past few years.

    I'll see if I can find a link later.


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  • #102
    chite
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭chite


    Messiah Limited Jackhammer wrote: »
    Some folks specifically with Jap' knotweed (difficult to eradicate) said bleach injections was the only thing that worked.

    Salt on the tarmac, Burner on the Patio.

    Or in situations like this, ask what did mankind do over the many thousands of years or growing stuff do in the past?
    I.e. put down the sprayer, pick up and tool and apply some elbow grease.

    I wonder what are the odds that this complies with the legislation on the control of JK under Statutory Instrument No.477, European Communities (Birds and Natural Habitats) Regulations 2011? Or Statutory Instruments No.155/2012 European Communities (Sustainable Use Of Pesticides) Regulations 2012....or the EU Convention on Biological Diversity?

    "Overdosing the plant with herbicide will kill off the above ground material but can often force the plant rhizome into a dormant state, where regrowth can occur again in a few years time. Often this resulting growth is stunted (known as 'bonsai' growth) and makes further treatments less effective due to lack of exposed plant area"
    http://www.japaneseknotweedireland.ie/services/japanese-knotweed-chemical-control

    This is a potential problem with bleach, how much and what concentration is being used by these so-called folk - not to mention the risks that could arise from this as it's being used as a non-selective toxic herbicide, at least glyosphate is safer in this regard.

    Some bedtime reading: https://www.property-care.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Code-of-Practice-for-the-Management-of-Japanese-knotweed_v2.7.pdf

    TLDR: Please don't use use bleach as a herbicide


  • #103
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,856 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The idea that a court case can determine what caused a specific cancer in a particular person is completely and utterly ludicrous.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #104
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,821 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    The idea that a court case can determine what caused a specific cancer in a particular person is completely and utterly ludicrous.

    Especially when a jury is faced with a poor terminally ill man & a huge corporation who can afford compensation.


  • #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Our local village store - you know the old fashioned food (aka rashers) and agri-products combination shop - stacks Roundup on the shelves in pride of place. Gobshytes.

    What are you on about? Why are they gobshytes for selling a perfecting legal and essential chemical?

    We spray extensively with roundup and may other chemicals on large areas (hectares at at time) on the farm depending on what we want to kill (weeds, briars, everything in some instances etc). They are absolutely vital and roundup is one of the most vital. We also spray roadways, yard areas and around the house etc. As someone said earlier nothing but hippy crap, wear PPE and its perfectly safe.

    The court case is also utter nonsense and should never had even got this far never mind have actually been one. id expect a strong appeal and would not be surprised to see the decision overturned.


  • #106
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Didn't they use to say the same about DDT?


  • #107
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,856 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Why do you think the EU might have decided to renew its license for 5 years rather than 15?

    Because of the same sort of baseless "won't somebody think of the children" Helen Lovejoy carry-on that gives us protests against fluoride, vaccines, nuclear power, incinerators, etc. etc.in spite of the overwhelming scientific evidence that these things are safe


    Oh and let me know how you get on hoeing away Japanese Knotweed

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #108
    skepticalme
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭skepticalme


    It appears Monsanto have been busy buying the science to support Glyphosate and suppressing the science that proves it's cancerous.


    This is a look behind the curtain,” said Wisner. “These show that Monsanto has deliberately been stopping studies that look bad for them, ghostwriting literature and engaging in a whole host of corporate malfeasance. They (Monsanto) have been telling everybody that these products are safe because regulators have said they are safe, but it turns out that Monsanto has been in bed with U.S. regulators while misleading European regulators.”

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/597fc800e4b0d187a5968fbf


  • #109
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Sienna Rancid Beachcomber wrote: »
    What are you on about? Why are they gobshytes for selling a perfecting legal and essential chemical?

    We spray extensively with roundup and may other chemicals on large areas (hectares at at time) on the farm depending on what we want to kill (weeds, briars, everything in some instances etc). They are absolutely vital and roundup is one of the most vital. We also spray roadways, yard areas and around the house etc. As someone said earlier nothing but hippy crap, wear PPE and its perfectly safe.

    The court case is also utter nonsense and should never had even got this far never mind have actually been one. id expect a strong appeal and would not be surprised to see the decision overturned.

    Not at all. Elbow grease.. round up is also killing our bees...


  • #110
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,821 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Not at all. Elbow grease.. round up is also killing our bees...

    Back to hoeing fields :rolleyes:

    It hasn't been proven


  • #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Not at all. Elbow grease.. round up is also killing our bees...

    Elbow grease when you want to kill all vegetation on a 4 hectare field? Or to kill briars on a over a mile of roadway and keep them gone.

    Elbow grease is a waste of time on its own in most instances, even if you do remove stuff by hand you will be removing it all over again unless you spray the area.

    Also the whole roundup is killing bees is a very suspect claim with little back up evidence.


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  • #112
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭jh79


    Here is Dr Robert O'Connors take on it. He is the head of the Irish Cancer Society;

    For the average food consumer no studies have found evidence of the levels of glyphosate around us or in our food or water causing any reason to be worried about increased risk of cancer.

    What claims there are supporting this agent being carcinogenic indicate that you’d need to be exposed to very (and I mean very!) large amounts for long periods and, even then, the risk, if any, would be very small and associated with a very narrow set of uncommon cancers.

    https://medium.com/@robert.oconnor.dcu/is-glyphosate-roundup-a-simple-weedkiller-or-big-cause-of-cancer-5dfaa6a3a42c


  • #113
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Sienna Rancid Beachcomber wrote: »
    Elbow grease when you want to kill all vegetation on a 4 hectare field? Or to kill briars on a over a mile of roadway and keep them gone.

    Elbow grease is a waste of time on its own in most instances, even if you do remove stuff by hand you will be removing it all over again unless you spray the area.

    Also the whole roundup is killing bees is a very suspect claim with little back up evidence.

    :eek:


  • #114
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Graces7 wrote: »
    :eek:

    You really have no idea whatsoever about agriculture do you?


  • #115
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    I just think to myself... the members of the jury that decided Roundup causes cancer are drawn from the same gene pool as:



    So really, I'm not sure.


  • #116
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Sienna Rancid Beachcomber wrote: »
    You really have no idea whatsoever about agriculture do you?

    Actually far more than you probably in truth and in practice,

    And we respect the land that feeds us and take great care with it.. avoiding fast-fix toxins.

    And working with nature.

    NB you need to read deeply re bees. If we lose our pollinators we will starve. There is abundant evidence.

    Over and out from me on this.


  • #117
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    PS there is an excellent and informative thread on this on the Farming forum, Cannot post the link but please read it. Birds and bees...


  • #118
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,856 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Graces7 wrote: »
    PS there is an excellent and informative thread on this on the Farming forum, Cannot post the link but please read it. Birds and bees...

    Read it. Nothing there whatsoever to support your claims.

    Now if glyphosate is being used to kill plants bees need, and it's banned and replaced with something else, it'll still be used to kill the plants bees need.

    Life ain't always empty.



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